December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RSA Data v. Cylink hearing
by rschlafly＠attmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Another hearing in the public-key patent saga. Cylink/CKC is going for a preliminary injunction against RSA Data for contributory infringement of the Stanford patents. RSA Data has a license to the Stanford patents, but has no sublicensing authority. It has been selling RSA & Diffie-Hellman toolkits and telling customers that they don't need PKP or Stanford patent licenses, and even indemnifying those customers against a patent infringement claim. An arbiter has already ruled that RSA Data's license does not cover customers shipping products. Of course I take the position that these patents are invalid, and now that Bidzos has lost control of them, he suddenly agrees with me. (Sorry, no ruling yet in my case. Stay tuned.) But RSA Data lawyers will have to stand up in court and say that after enforcing the Stanford patent against all public-key users for 5 years, RSA Data suddenly had a revelation that the Stanford patents are invalid after all. It should be amusing. 2:00 pm, Thurs., Jan. 4, 1996 RSA Data v. Cylink/CKC, Case C-95-03256 WHO SF Federal Bldg, court #7, Judge Orrick 450 Golden Gate Ave Directions: Take 9th up from Market -- it turns into Larkin and the federal bldg is on the corner with Golden Gate Ave. docket clerk: 415-522-2060 Roger Schlafly phone: 408-476-3550 CompuServe: 76646,323 US Mail: PO Box 1680, Soquel, CA 95073 USA Internet: rschlafly(a)attmail.com

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Re: Political Cleanup program [NOISE]
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"hallam(a)w3.org" 19-DEC-1995 13:48:07.90 >It is very strange the way that "Libertarians" are so able to turn all rights into property rights. Thus freedom of speech become freedom to have influence on the politicial process in direct proportion to wealth. ------------------ Funny, I'm disagreeing with you, and I believe that government ought to be involved with making sure everyone has a chance to make political speech (via subsidies of education). That doesn't mean that those who can make more speech (through money or any other ability) should be handicapped. ------------------ >I began work on the web in '92 because I saw its potential as a political tool which did not have the bias of wealth. It has the potential to create a new kind of political dialogue. When the Web becomes as ubiquitous as the telephone we will still see inequalities of power, the homeless and the poor will still be underrepresented. But that situation must be judged against our own where the political process can be bought and traded as if it were any other form of comodity. ------------------ You're making the classic PC (otherwise known as distorted egalitarian) mistake: you're wanting equality of results instead of equality of opportunity. Freedom of speech and the press doesn't mean that everyone gets a free press subsidized by the government, and no usage of means outside of that. It means that everyone _potentially_ can influence the political process and the marketplace of ideas. ------------------ >It is not simply an issue of money, it is an issue of national security. If a foreigner were to control the majority of the media there would be a significant threat to the national interest. This threat has been realised in the UK with the comming to power of Rupert Murdoch. Fortunately his influence on the US political scene has thus far been minor. In his own country he has brought down the government more than once. ----------------- This argument looks quite similar to those used for Canadian Content restrictions. "We can't let in Hollywood, they might be more demanded by the people than our own culture." "We can't let in Rupert Murdoch, his product might be more demanded by the people than our own products." It all comes down to people not having the courage to let their ideas be tested by what will get the most demand. -Allen

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Re: What ever happened to... Cray Comp/NSA co-development
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:22 AM 12/20/95, Jiri Baum wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hello, > >tcmay wrote: >... >> Prime Factoring? Primes are easy to factor, of course. (Hint: Every prime >> has two factors.) >... > >Can someone enlighten me as to what the two factors are? > >With sensible definitions I've heard you either get one (just itself) >or four (itself [p], both units [1,-1] and the co-whatsitsname [-p]). You're looking too deeply. My point was in response to the very common error people make in talking about "factoring a large prime number." A prime is actually easy to factor: itself and 1, which is the point I was making. (One can quibble about whether 1 is a factor...I include it, though 1 is admittedly not considered a prime. But this is a quibble, I think.) --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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RE: Political Cleanup program [NOISE]
by Kurt Buff (Volt Comp) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- From: hallam@w3.org[SMTP:hallam@w3.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 1995 8:22 To: Bill Stewart; cypherpunks(a)toad.com Cc: hallam(a)w3.org Subject: Re: Political Cleanup program [NOISE] >I happen to believe in freedom of speech, especially political speech, >and if you're not allowed to spend money broadcasting your speech or >printing your messages, you don't have much freedom of press or speech. It is very strange the way that "Libertarians" are so able to turn all rights into property rights. Thus freedom of speech become freedom to have influence on the politicial process in direct proportion to wealth. Not so strange really. All rights, correctly understood, *are* property rights. What most don't understand is that rights are protections from the initiation of force by others. What this means is that you (anyone) don't have the right to the property of others. You have the right to offer mutually satisfactory exchanges, or even solicit outright gifts, but what is yours is yours, and it shouldn't be subject to extortion or theft by others. This includes your time, cash, and any other tangible assets you may own. I began work on the web in '92 because I saw its potential as a political tool which did not have the bias of wealth. It has the potential to create a new kind of political dialogue. When the Web becomes as ubiquitous as the telephone we will still see inequalities of power, the homeless and the poor will still be underrepresented. But that situation must be judged against our own where the political process can be bought and traded as if it were any other form of comodity. The problem with the political process now is that the government and its beneficiaries (which includes both the large corporation and the welfare class) have over time arrogated to themselves the power to steal (via taxes and regulation) our lives and our livelihood from us. The poor and the rich will always be with us, but they shouldn't be special clients of the state at the expense of everyone else. It is not simply an issue of money, it is an issue of national security. If a foreigner were to control the majority of the media there would be a significant threat to the national interest. This threat has been realised in the UK with the comming to power of Rupert Murdoch. Fortunately his influence on the US political scene has thus far been minor. In his own country he has brought down the government more than once. The only reason foreign money might be a threat to us is again that the government arrogated to itself the power to regulate our lives. The reason and interest for lobbying the government, whether through the press or through other, more direct, efforts is that the government *can do something* about whatever happens to be at issue. Take away the ability of the government to act, and there won't be any money spent lobbying it. I submit we'd all be better off. >And as far as "prevent the political process from being owned by the rich" >goes, there have been brief exceptions over the last 5000 years in which >the less-rich have overthrown the rich, but campaign finance laws have almost >never kept the rich or the politicians from helping each other out. In UK politicis the influence of an individual's money is limited to influencing one party. Even that is done behind closed doors. The other major parties both limit the size of individual contributions to a constituency party to a relatively nominal sum. $5000 is a huge sum in UK politics. >I also don't believe freedom of speech should be limited by national >boundaries. Nor do I. But I only vote in one country. If we take the question outside the US it would not on the whole be a good thing if the Prime Minister of Tobago (say) were provided with a campaign contribution of $1M by a foreign company with an interest in strip mining the entire island. similarly it would be a bad thing if Columbian drug lords were to make massive contributions to politicians committed to continuing the prohibition on drugs. See my above comments. Only if the PM of Tobago could steal the land from its owners could he permit the island to be strip-mined. And only if the government has the power to prohibit drug possession would the Cali cartel be interested in making campaign contributions. No power to do something, no money offered to do it. Kurt [speaking only for myself, of course] Phill

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No Subject
by cpunk＠remail.ecafe.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Submitted for your approval... The recent CryptoLib, offered by the nice folks at AT&T (Written by Jack Lacy and Don Mitchell), has a small problem: folks without RSA licenses are given a crippled version without functional RSA code. It sucks, but they must cover their collective asses. That small problem has now been rectified. Is CryptoLib available overseas yet? ================================CUT HERE=================================== *** - Sun Dec 17 20:05:50 1995 --- rsa.c Sun Dec 17 20:05:36 1995 *************** *** 411,421 **** #endif { BigInt result; ! fprintf(stderr, "RSA encryption not supported without license.\n"); ! result = bigInit(0); return result; } - #ifdef K_AND_R _TYPE( BigInt ) RSADecrypt(message, key) --- 411,420 ---- #endif { BigInt result; ! result = bigInit(0); ! bigPow(message, key->publicExponent, key->modulus, result); return result; } #ifdef K_AND_R _TYPE( BigInt ) RSADecrypt(message, key) *************** *** 427,434 **** #endif { BigInt result; ! fprintf(stderr, "RSA decryption not supported without license.\n"); ! result = bigInit(0); return result; } --- 426,433 ---- #endif { BigInt result; ! result = bigInit(0); ! chineseRemTheorem(message, key, result); return result; }

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Re: Is ths legal?...
by Declan B. McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Harvey is. (And a pretty damn good one, too.) -Declan ---------- Forwarded message begins here ---------- Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 14:38:24 +0001 (EST) From: Harvey A Silverglate <has(a)world.std.com> Subject: Re: Is ths legal?... To: "Declan B. McCullagh" <declan+(a)CMU.EDU> In-Reply-To: <wkoy1Sq00YUvMl2sVN(a)andrew.cmu.edu> Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9512171444.F10678-0100000(a)world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Declan - The answer to the "is this legal?" question is more complex than simply "private versus public" university. There are fairly strict federal anti-wiretapping laws. It is hardly clear that a private university may eavesdrop on students' phone or computer conversations, even if conducted over the university's network. Furthermore, many states have their own anti-wiretap and anti-eavesdrop laws, which are even stricter than federal standards. I don't have the time nor the inclination to do research into Oklahoma law, but we did some research into this area of state and federal law for the LaMacchia case and concluded that in its investigation of David LaMacchia, MIT very well might have violated federal laws. Harvey Silverglate

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E-cash coin questions (Mark Twain / Digicash)
by David Klur 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1. How many different coins (serial numbers) can the current Mark Twain/Digicash protocol support? 2. Does Mark Twain bank maintain 2 lists: 1 of all the ecash serial numbers for all coins ever produced, and 1 of all the ecash serial numbers for all coins that have been spent before? Or just 1 list of the spent coins (assuming that any coin that is signed w/MT's private key and does not appear on the "spent" list is still valid and is not counterfeit)? 3. The Digicash scheme allows each coin to be used only once and then destroyed. How many coins will it take before all possible coins are minted, used and destroyed thereby requiring banks to issue new coins with "recycled" serial numbers? Remember, each time a "transaction" takes place, an existing coin is destroyed and a new coin is minted. and a transaction can simply be Alice giving her friend Bob a dollar (not necessarily using the ecash for a purchase) 4. What is the probability of guessing a valid serial number, assuming there are 1 million, 1 billion or 1 trillion coins in circulation? 5. Suppose you have a very large number of cash coins signed by the same bank (say, Mark Twain) and you know the record layout of each coin (easy enough since you can decrypt it with the bank's public key), and for each coin the "bank name" field is the same (because it's the same bank!) -- then, would it be possible to hack the RSA encryption and recreate the bank's private key? -----BEGIN PBP SIGNATURE----- Version: 1.0.0, Copyright 1995, Pretty Bad Privacy David Klur dklur(a)dttus.com I am who I am because I say so. So there. -----END PBP SIGNATURE-------

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revised time quantization package (Unix & WIN32) available
by Matt Blaze 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A revised version of my simple CPU time quantization package is now available for most Unix and, thanks to the efforts of Frank O'Dwyer (Rainbow Diamond Ltd), WIN32 platforms. The package provides a simple interface to encapsulate code blocks that must run in a multiple of a coarse-grained "quantized" amount of CPU time. It is useful in building various on-line cryptographic protocols in which an attacker could otherwise learn key information by observing the time the target takes to perform calculations that use the secret (c.f., Paul Kocher's recent attacks). The basic idea is that you can specify a "quantum" such that at the end of an encapsulated block the CPU will busy-wait until the next quantum multiple. Fine-grained (below the quantum) timing information is thereby denied to the observer (including unprivileged processes on the same machine). The code is quick-and-dirty and only runs on Unix-centric and WIN32-based platforms. Test and use at your own risk. There are (basically) no restrictions on the use or distribution of the (very simple) code. Get it from: ftp://research.att.com/dist/mab/quantize.shar The quantize package is also part of Jack Lacy's cryptolib package (watch this space for details). -matt

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Re: Java and timing info - second attempt
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Jim Miller (jim_miller(a)bilbo.suite.com) writes: >Of course it would be a lot easier for the applet to just try to read the >secret key file, encrypt it with an embedded public key, and post it to >alt.anonymous.messages. If I understand Java security correctly, the applet can just send data back to the server it was loaded from, but can't read random files on the machine it runs on (even if the user running it can read them). Java is beginning to become cluefull about the idea that a program is not the same as the person running it, and should not have the same privileges. In this area, most OSs (inluding Unix) are totally clueless, which is why the Orange Book has mandatory security requirements at the "B" and above levels. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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DES modem
by SINCLAIR DOUGLAS N 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I recently aquired a DES modem. It's a MESA432 made by Western Datacom. The writing on the front proclaims "9600 bps NBS DES ENCRYPTION MODEM". It has all of the usual front lights, plus one labled 'encrypt'. On the back it has jacks for leased-line and dial-up, an RS232 connector and an external speaker connector. Has anyone ever used one of these? Can anyone give me any information on it? I realize that without a second modem it's not much use.

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Re: What ever happened to... Cray Comp/NSA co-development
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:15 PM 12/18/95, Derek Atkins wrote: >Correction of another detail: > >> > tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) writes: >> > When you've done this, and concluded that RSA-129 could be done in, say, X >> > minutes, then move on to RSA-384 (the BlackNet key cracked by the MIT >> > group), and on to the 1024- and 2048-bit keys. Tell us how many years or >> > centuries it will take. (Hint: Rivest and Schneier have done these > >RSA-129 is 129 decimal digits, not 129 bits. This computes to about >425 bits, which is actually more difficult than the 384-bit Blacknet >key. I'm not having much luck on this example, am I? The RSA-129 I remembered correctly as being 129 decimal digits, but I spaced out on the 384-bit key and mislabelled it as "RSA-384." It'll be _many_ years before a 384-decimal-digit number is factored, I suspect. Let alone a 600-digit modulus, with or without the mysterious "transphaser" technology mentioned by Anitro. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Forged email to sway congress
by fc＠all.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It seems like a trivial thing to do, but if email to Congress works to sway opinion, it should be fairly easy to create thousands of email messages from different apparent sources each hour, all supporting a point of view, and to suppliment this effort with a small telephone room full of people to fill congressional switchboards with supportive phone calls. Interesting PM attack. -> See: Info-Sec Heaven at URL http://all.net/ Management Analytics - 216-686-0090 - PO Box 1480, Hudson, OH 44236

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Re: Campaign Finance Reform
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:41 AM 12/18/95 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Jon Lasser wrote: > >> On Sun, 17 Dec 1995, jim bell wrote: >... >> > It is absolutely true that you couldn't stop a person from communicating >> > claims of a donation to a politician. But what you COULD do is to ensure >> > that the donor couldn't PROVE that he made such a donation. In other words, >> > _I_ could claim that I gave $1K to Senator Sludgepump (a lie) and the good >> > senator would have no idea that I wasn't telling the truth. The people who >> > REALLY made such donations would be helpless. >> >> A tricky way around this, if it's done ALMOST properly, is to donate in >> odd amounts... ie "Senator Sludgepump, I am going to donate $469.23 to >> your campaign..." >> >> All this means is that the donations would have to be lumped in some way >> so that Senator Sludgepump can't find out the exact amounts donated by >> any individual. > >Cancelled checks. > >Or, hand check in addressed, stamped envelope to Senator Sludgepump and >ask him if he would mind sealing it and dropping it in a mailbox. > All of which raises numerous opportunities for sting operations against politicians, done by individuals by procedures provided for under law. Escrow (Okay, I know that's a dirty word around here, but...) an encrypted statement of how you intend to run the sting, to be opened by the escrow agent at some point in the future, explaining who you're going after and how. Make the contribution, keep evidence, and if you're successfull the congressman goes to jail for a few years.

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cyphernomicon FTP site?
by Vinod Valloppillil 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone know where I can FTP a full copy of the cyphernomicon? ------------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Vinod Valloppillil | LibertarianismTelecommunicationsFreeMarketEnvi Engineering/Wharton | ronmentalismTechnologyCryptographyElectronicCa University of Pennsylvania | shInteractiveTelevisionEconomicsPhilosophyDigi vvallopp(a)eniac.seas.upenn.edu | talPrivacyAnarchoCapitalismRuggedIndividualism ------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------

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PGP's randpool()
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What does PGP do when it exhausts randpool? I've scanned the source, and found some useful tidbits, but RANDPOOLBITS seems limited to ~408 bytes. I can invoke commands that should exhaust PGP's randpool, but don't seem to. Doing "pgp +makerandom=4000000 foo" repeatedly seemingly would cause PGP to prompt me to type in some random stuff, but it doesn't. I'm trying to see how pgp reacts to me taking all its random bytes because I'm writing some shell scripts that use pgp to generate random passphrases. (This is a case where I don't think bunches of system data are enough.) (Note to reporters who might be listening: This is an fairly unusual invocation of PGP where a user would not interact with the program at all to supply new randomness. Its not an attack on PGP's security in any interesting or newsworthy sense.) random.c: * - Every time you run PGP, especially when responding to one of PGP's * prompts, PGP samples the keystrokes for use as random numbers. * It is a shame to throw this entropy (randomness) away just because * there is no need for it in the current invocation of PGP [... Further down...] /* * Performs an accumulation of random bits. As long as there are fewer bits * in the buffer than are needed (the number passed, plus pending bits), * prompt for more. [heavily cut] void trueRandAccum(unsigned count) /* Get this many random bits ready */ { LANG("\nWe need to generate %u random bits. This is done by measuring the\ \ntime intervals between your keystrokes. Please enter some random text\ \non your keyboard until you hear the beep:\n"), count-trueRandBits); -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: revised time quantization package (Unix & WIN32) available
by cpunk＠remail.ecafe.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

AT&T Spokesman Matt Blaze writes: blah blah >There are (basically) no restrictions on the use or distribution >of the (very simple) code. This is simply untrue. Read the fine print in the file. Use this code and you owe them big. They'll "reach out and touch" you big time. If they were serious, they'd gpl it. >Get it from: > ftp://research.att.com/dist/mab/quantize.shar > >The quantize package is also part of Jack Lacy's cryptolib package >(watch this space for details). I don't understand why this group continues to tolerate these blatently commercial messages from att (and netscape.) (The message is really just an ad for the cryptolib product, as it says). I've also said this b4 but I'll say it again: why would anyone in their right mind trust binary code from att after the clipper fiasco. And why do we tolerate Jeff Weinstein and Mat Blaze calling themselves cypherpunks, when they are so clearly just working us for their corporate interests? I wonder how much they get paid to monitor this list?

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RE: Political Cleanup program
by Kurt Buff (Volt Comp) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ya won't have complete equity amongst lobbyists, until ya remove the power of bureaucrats to control people's lives. When laws can be used to deprive people of their livelihood, via either taxation or regulation, you will create situations where people can make money from it, and therefore unscrupulous people will take advantage. The only defensible argument for government at all is to protect people from depredation, either from fellow citizens or from external threats. When you prevent people from engaging in peaceful commerce, you open the floodgates to tyranny. Thus, the solution is less government, not to try to legislate human nature. Kurt [speaking for myself, of course] ---------- From: Richard Huddleston[SMTP:reh@wam.umd.edu] Sent: Monday, December 18, 1995 6:12 To: jimbell(a)pacifier.com; vznuri(a)netcom.com Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Political Cleanup program Detweiler wrote: * >JB: * >>Politics is traditionally corrupt, it appears, because donors to politicians * >>and political campaigns expect a quid pro quo for their donations. Various * >>unsatisfactory solutions include campaign spending limits, etc. * > * >I have an unusual view that I've never seen elsewhere: the problem with * >our government is not that money or PACs are involved, but that the system * >does not handle or resolve the conflicts between them very well. in other * >words, in contrary to the current view that all PACs are evil, I think the * >problem is not that we have PACs, but that our current system does not * >balance their demands in some sensible manner. the system is * >susceptible to corruption. it is conceivable however that there would be * >a system that involves money and politics but still avoids corruption. Not to sound like a dupe or anything, but every time I get discouraged at the rampant mealyism of our political system I go read the first couple of paragraphs of a text from GOVT 101. There, I get reminded that the way most political debate is handled elsewhere is with bullets. Personally, I welcome a complete equity between all lobbyists seeking to obtain a politico's ear. Take the money out of the equation, and let the merits of their causes, if any, stand on their own. Happy holidays, Richard

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Applescripts for monitoring Netscape Activity
by Bill.Humphries＠msn.fullfeed.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The recent Netscape beta bug mentioned here raised a technical question? Anyone here have a pointer to an applescript, frontier or macperl script for monitoring what programs do to your system folder and desktop? Otherwise, I'd better write one. It'd be a good way to learn more about the behavior of apps. Thanks and happy holidays, Bill Humphries Call your Representative and Senators and demand an end to attempts to censor the Internet. More info at http://www.vtw.org/ *** The answer to porn speech is free speech -- via Molly Ivins ***

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wish list for Crypto++?
by Wei Dai 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I am looking for suggestions for features to include in the next version of Crypto++ (current version is 1.1, you can find it at http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/cryptlib.html) Major additions already planned/implemented include speed improvements, Safer (all the variations), and elliptic curve cryptosystems (over prime fields as well as fields of characteristic 2). There is also a good chance that RSA will be added back, but I'm still waiting for the final word from the RSADSI lawyer. What else do people want to see? Wei Dai

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RE: Political Cleanup program [NOISE]
by Kurt Buff (Volt Comp) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Let's try this again, shall we? My mailer didn't act the way I wanted it to... ___________________________________ >I happen to believe in freedom of speech, especially political speech, >and if you're not allowed to spend money broadcasting your speech or >printing your messages, you don't have much freedom of press or speech. It is very strange the way that "Libertarians" are so able to turn all rights into property rights. Thus freedom of speech become freedom to have influence on the politicial process in direct proportion to wealth. _____________________________________ Not so strange really. All rights, correctly understood, *are* property rights. What most don't understand is that rights are protections from the initiation of force by others. What this means is that you (anyone) don't have the right to the property of others. You have the right to offer mutually satisfactory exchanges, or even solicit outright gifts, but what is yours is yours, and it shouldn't be subject to extortion or theft by others. This includes your time, cash, and any other tangible assets you may own. _______________________________________________ I began work on the web in '92 because I saw its potential as a political tool which did not have the bias of wealth. It has the potential to create a new kind of political dialogue. When the Web becomes as ubiquitous as the telephone we will still see inequalities of power, the homeless and the poor will still be underrepresented. But that situation must be judged against our own where the political process can be bought and traded as if it were any other form of comodity. ________________________________________ The problem with the political process now is that the government and its beneficiaries (which includes both the large corporation and the welfare class) have over time arrogated to themselves the power to steal (via taxes and regulation) our lives and our livelihood from us. The poor and the rich will always be with us, but they shouldn't be special clients of the state at the expense of everyone else. _____________________________________ It is not simply an issue of money, it is an issue of national security. If a foreigner were to control the majority of the media there would be a significant threat to the national interest. This threat has been realised in the UK with the comming to power of Rupert Murdoch. Fortunately his influence on the US political scene has thus far been minor. In his own country he has brought down the government more than once. _____________________________________________ The only reason foreign money might be a threat to us is again that the government arrogated to itself the power to regulate our lives. The reason and interest for lobbying the government, whether through the press or through other, more direct, efforts is that the government *can do something* about whatever happens to be at issue. Take away the ability of the government to act, and there won't be any money spent lobbying it. I submit we'd all be better off. ________________________________________________ >And as far as "prevent the political process from being owned by the rich" >goes, there have been brief exceptions over the last 5000 years in which >the less-rich have overthrown the rich, but campaign finance laws have almost >never kept the rich or the politicians from helping each other out. In UK politicis the influence of an individual's money is limited to influencing one party. Even that is done behind closed doors. The other major parties both limit the size of individual contributions to a constituency party to a relatively nominal sum. $5000 is a huge sum in UK politics. >I also don't believe freedom of speech should be limited by national >boundaries. Nor do I. But I only vote in one country. If we take the question outside the US it would not on the whole be a good thing if the Prime Minister of Tobago (say) were provided with a campaign contribution of $1M by a foreign company with an interest in strip mining the entire island. similarly it would be a bad thing if Columbian drug lords were to make massive contributions to politicians committed to continuing the prohibition on drugs. _______________________________________ See my above comments. Only if the PM of Tobago could steal the land from its owners could he permit the island to be strip-mined. And only if the government has the power to prohibit drug possession would the Cali cartel be interested in making campaign contributions. No power to do something, no money offered to do it. ____________________ Phill Kurt [Speaking only for myself, of course]

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King Kong Does e$
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- King Kong Does e$ A while back, when the Microsoft Network hype was at its height, I forwarded a bunch of articles to www-buyinfo entitled "Oh, No, there goes Tokyo", about how Godzilla, in the form of Microsoft's Microsoft Network, was going to stomp all over Tokyo, in the form of the net. This was before I found out that Netscape's codeword for their Navigator HTML Browser was "Mozilla". So, along comes the following on the DCSB list, courtesy of the esteemed Mr. Lethin: Wednesday, December 13, 1995 Refreshments 4:15 PM 4:30 - 6:00 PM Bartos Theater, E15-070 MIT Media Lab Ames Street, Cambridge, MA, USA Electronic Money Made Easy Dan Simon (dansimon(a)microsoft.com) Mac in hand, I went to a presentation at the Media Lab's basement auditorium, and proceed to transcribe his copious overheads, sans graphics, as fast as my fingers could fly... Which I present here in it's raw form, with a few corrections, his cryptic (ahem...) source citations, viz: (cf., MN 93), and the ocassional note I could cram in when he stopped flipping charts... Oh, no, there goes Zurich... - -------------------- Dan Simon Microsoft, now, Quantum Computing/crypto in Canada before... Characteristics of cash Portable Anonymous Confidential Easily and instantly transferrable Owned by those posessing it Hard to counterfiet Has multiple interchangeable forms. What isn't cash: e-credit Non-anonymous Severely limited confidentiality Complicated payment protocols two parties and both their respective banks involved Ownership determined by record-keeping credit/debit authority What isn't e-cash: offline e-cash One desirable feature of cash: transfer without an intermediary Problem: doublespending: restore prespending state, respend the same cash Tracing re-spent cash useless if it was stolen (cf. (cfnII 0091, Yac94, etc) Tamperproof hardware isn't (cf EGY83) Can broadcast small amounts over the net at a huge payoff. Result cash as secure cellphone codes (better not be worth much...) Offline Electronic "bills" don't work. Too big for offline Offline Electronic coins do work. Easy to counterfiet, not much profit. (He is interested in electronic banknotes, on-line bearer securities, in other words) What can we assume: Customers, merchants, banks may wish to transact via many different possible media: telephone, Internet, cable network, smartcard/terminal, etc. etc. If a customer wants a transaction to be anonymous, then an anonymous medium must be used (no callerid on the telephone, anonymous remailer, etc) A Modest Proposal On-line cash issued by banks owned by a possessor, Cryptographically hard to counterfiet Cash ownership transferred with bank's help aAnonymity of payer, payee based on anonymity of communication medium No individual account or prior trust relationship necessary to use a bank's cash (cf., MN 93) Formal Security E-cash schemes generally described as a set of individual protocols (payer-payee, payer-bank, etc.( with intuitively described goals) But formal proof of security really requires a model of a full network, to consider general attacks, and explicit, formal security goals Previous examples: (BEA91/MR/91) for computation (RS93) for anonymity, (BR93) for authentication What does it look like A bank issued banknote has a serial number,amount, and treasuer's signature It also has an associated "secret" which can be checked against the serial number, but can't be gotten from the serial number Its owner is whoever has the secret... ...but when the issuing bank gets the secret, the banknote is no longer valid. Publish the bank notes as broken, banknotes no longer valid. (spiffy graphic elided) Customer chooses secret s, serial number n, n=h(s) and amount. Customer pays bank (by any method) the amount of the desired banknote bank signs serial number and amount Transaction may be anonymous (physical cash purchase at bank) pick serial number, bank uses private signature to sign the serial number. (May's train-locker applies) How is change made: Customer generates secrets, serial numbers and amounts for smaller banknotes Customer gives bank the secret for the large banknote, and serial numbers and amounts for smaller ones Bank signs serial numbers and amounts, stores the secret for large now-invalid banknote Transaction can be completely anonymous. How is it used for payment Payer simply gives bank note to payee by handing over the secret payee immediately exchanges the banknote for new ones anonymously, if desired Old banknote is now invalid, since bank has its secret; hence payer can't respend it If the bank note is already invalid, bank rejcts exchange and informs payee. "In effect, these are disposable banknotes" "the simple way to get around exploding banknote numbers, issue it with an expiry date." Estimated outstanding certificates numbers would then be within the storage capacity of a bank. (per a crony in the Bank of Japan) Public key from the bank is needed to keep the bank honest. "miracle of one-way function" (shuts down clueless question...) Model Synchronous network of parties, some dishonest, one of them is the bank Parties can exchange messages anonymously Responder can always broadcast Parties and bank keep track of balances each round, a party receives instruction to deposit/withwdraw/ a unit value coin to/from the bank or pay a coin to another party (missed one point..) Security goals Correctness: if all parties are honest, then instructions result in correct new balances Integrity: parties cannot be ripped off Honest bank never accepts more coins than have been withdrawn Party can detect dishonest bank Anonymity: information available to any coalition should be indistinquishable for any sequence of instructions consistent with the starting and ending points of distinguised coins entering/leaving coalition Weak anonymity, contends that that's what we have with serial numbered physical notes anyway Can make stronger with subsequent anonymous change operations at a bank... (can also buy with cash at a desk, also on the net with another form of digital cash ;-) Efficiency: cost of security should grow slowly (polylog at worst) with size of network. Convenience Features Only payer, payee, issuing bank involved in transaction Each validation and transfer immediate Portable Easy to handle Expiry dates can be added. If anonymous withdrawl, then can get lost money back on expiry date, if coins weren't cashed. Security Digital signature makes cash unforgeable Online validation prevents double spending Secrecy of secret preserved even if serial number publically available Bank's *only* secret is its private signature key Digital signature publicly commits bank to redeeming its e-cash; hence customers need not have special trust relationship with bank. Audience Q: Borenstein's scenario. A: bad problem. someone can split bank private keys, for instance (No problem, strawman, what happens when someone breaks Ft. Knox?... --RAH ;-) Extra features Payee can have the e-cash non-anonymously deposited in bank account for easier handling and better security (bank as back up) Payer can include transaction details with payment package or hide them in the secret (to create transaction record to be archived by, for example, by the bank) helpful in dispute. "Secure payments" and E-cash "Don't send cash in the mail" even if it gets there, receiver need not admit it One solution: secure payment protocols (Microsoft/Visa STT) Non-anonymous: transaction details attached to payment mediated by payer's credit card issuer Payee can delay response and batch process transactions "Secure Payments" Protocol's basic idea: payer sends encrypted package to payee giving credit card number and transaction details, "payment instructions". Only acquirer can read it Valid credit card number plus payer's digital signature assure acquirer that payment is legitimate (missed one point) Secure ecash payments Payer substitutes ecash secrets for credit card number in payment instruction package payment desiring ecash settlement. Includes ecash serial numbers amounts when sending package to acquirer E-cash issuing bank bank checks validity of ecash payment and exchanges it for merchant as apprpriate by signing serial numbers, amounts Instant payment, no bad debt Questions Where is the communications cost/ security tradeoff? Solutions to dine and dash problem with dishonest bank (anonymity must broken to nark on the bank) (cf Cle85)? Efficient offline anonymous micropayments solutions? Implimentation pitfalls? - ------------------- So, there are my notes, such as they are... I walked away from this thinking that on-line cash covers a multitude of sins: You can stick any "secret" into digital cash as long as it's unique and you trust the bank to keep it. If bank signs the secret they've shared with you and reveal it before some expiry date, they can be put out of business, because they've blown their reputation. If they claim that you've not shared a secret, you expose the secret and their signature, same happens. If you put an expiry date on Simon's digital cash, you don't have to keep track of it all. If you have an expiry date on Simon's cash, if you loose it, you can tell the bank, and if it's not cashed by the expiry date they can give you your money back. There's a distinction between on-line "banknotes", which are valuable enough to forge, and off-line "coins", which are not. Simon has a system which has just enough anonymity to be economically useful, but not perfect enough to keep the truly paranoid happy. Must be something in the water in Redmond. Essentially, the bank becomes a quasi-anonymous "line" in what's normally a peer-to-peer transaction. Takes getting used to. He's got a web page with all of this in gory detail, I bet, and his e-mail address is at the top of this post. Speaking of micropayments, Mark Manasse, Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir, and Silvio Micali did another talk on Friday which touched on several cool micropayment schemes, and a much more cost-effective way to do key revocation. Though I got there exactly 6 minutes late, I missed one presentation, and didn't take any notes for the rest. Hope someone else here did. I saw lots of DCSB/Cypherpunks there... Any takers? Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMNdbfvgyLN8bw6ZVAQH7qwP9GKSx7BegCr5lAOmG6lBo4OYgCPUO9j8N bqf89b46rTkYrTkSB2DDX7BG/wu4nv/pnf7rA7UBHJjydZuiAVG9KplzevUWFoaI xVeW8AoVPgKvkZsELK4VrrOayAXNxX9FBX7vGwsedl1SjQgyA3Qo62799GOIDrpQ xuXYtTtaTfw= =LQk+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA (617) 958-3971 "Reality is not optional." --Thomas Sowell The NEW(!) e$ Home Page: http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/ >>>>Phree Phil: Email: zldf(a)clark.net http://www.netresponse.com/zldf <<<<<

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No Subject
by anon-remailer＠utopia.hacktic.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I would think that ISPs (and even commercial online services) would >prefer that their customers use strong crypto because it's less for >them to worry about ("Are they really sending pornography or death >threats though our network?"). While most ISP's may not want to be responsible for monitoring transmissions, check out a portion of an agreement from mine. (I haven't and won't sign such an agreement, may therefore be terminated at month's end.) "4.1 PCIX may elect to electronically monitor any and all traffic which passes over our Wide Area Network. This monitoring may include public as well as private communications and data transfers from our Members and to our Members as well as any and all communications and data transfers to and from any other internet sites. .... The monitoring and disclosure activities of PCIX may negate the privacy protections which the Member would otherwise enjoy under federal and state law, including the Electronic Privacy Communications Act. Member specifically agrees that PCIX may do so and Member understands that he or she is giving up privacy rights which he or she would otherwise be entitled to under the law." Hope this isn't the start of a trend! groundfog(a)nym.gondolin.org

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RE: Political Cleanup program
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:09 PM 12/17/95 -0500, you wrote: >A much simpler solution might be to just force all politicians to give up >their campaign funds when they retire, or even better, immediately >following the elections. Today, whatever is left in their campaign funds >are given over to them when they retire or are forced out of office, on top >of their lucrative pensions. > For Congress, I think this changed a few years ago. Before a certain date, retiring Congressmen could convert unused campaign funds to their own money. At some point they changed the rules, and that is no longer the case.

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Re: Java and timing info - second attempt
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 22:31 12/18/95 -0800, Jeff Weinstein wrote: > In Netscape Navigator 2.0 Java and JavaScript do not have access >to crypto routines. At some point in the future this will probably >change, but only after we understand the implications much better >than we do today. More importantly for covert channel analysis, do they have access to good clocks? Access to a good clock could make a Java applet a good candidate for the receiver in a generalized covert channel attack. Access to both process time and real-world time can give a good indication of load on the processor, and might be needed for animation. A transmitter could send by using or not using the CPU. (Installing the transmitter is left as an excersize for the student. ;-) ) Who said that life was safe? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: King Kong Does e$
by Rich Salz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Speaking of micropayments, Mark Manasse, Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir, and >Silvio Micali did another talk on Friday which touched on several cool >micropayment schemes, and a much more cost-effective way to do key >revocation. Though I got there exactly 6 minutes late, I missed one >presentation, and didn't take any notes for the rest. Hope someone else >here did. I saw lots of DCSB/Cypherpunks there... Any takers? A reference for Mark's paper on Millicent is <a href="http://www.w3.org/pub/Conferences/WWW4/Papers/246/">The Millicent Protocol for Inexpensive Electronic Commerce</a> Of all the various payment protocols I've seen, this was one of the few that studied the available protocol bandwidth before designing a protocol. Folks with an engineering slant should appreciate the work here. I would be VERY interested in URL's and summaries of Micali's talk. (I really wanted to go but after spending most of the week at the WWW4 conference I had to commit serious time to being anchored to the office.) /r$

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