December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: (fwd) Possible compromise of anon.penet.fi
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Roy wrote about the attack on annon.penet.fi: > >I think this might be a forked attack... trying to flood penet with >traffic, and also outing people who have used penet for anonymous >traffic previously. This is a good argument against maintaining a >double-blind database (and in favor of systems like soda.berkeley.edu's >remailer with its 'response block' strategy). > I am not sure I understand the outing part of the attack. If you have a PW set for your anon ID then how can someone else fake your mail? If you use no PW, then you need to wake up anyway. Perhaps outing would be what it takes. -- Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP public key by finger

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Just say NYET to kneejerking
by nzook＠math.utexas.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I must admit that I'm disappointed. I figured that I would take some hits, but for people to only scan a post before reaching for the lighter... Highlights of the post: 0- I'm a pro-elctronic privacy religous rightist. (Someone didn't even get THAT right...) 1- We are rapidly approaching a point that there will be a broad-based demand for censorship. If the net is to survive in a recognizable form, we have to head this off. Specifically, BBS sysops have been drug into court on porno or aiding the deliquency of a minor charges. I advance the proposition that we need to establish a system that will allow sysops to be able to brush these attacks off. 2- The censorship that I advance is censorship _by parents_ _for their own children_. Only. People have talked about cable boxxes and telephones. Are you not aware that many cable companies offer boxes with a (physical) key that must be present in order for certain channels to come through? That the phone companies currently allow customers to disallow outgoing 900 calls? My idea is to implement a net-equivalent system--household by household determination of what will be allowed into their homes. 3- In this system, the work to determine which parts of the net to allow/ disallow access to falls entirely on the parents. 4- I believe that this system could be used to gain the protection sysops deserve. Look at the system. Imagine you were trying to sue/prosecute a sysop who utilized such a system. One what basis could you attack? All decisions to allow access were determined by the parent. The sysop genuinely attempts to verify that adults are adults. Let me repeat. This system is an attempt to cut of an almost certain attempt by some to censor the net. If we can get this in place, if we can get legislatures to recognize the system, we should be able to defeat censorship attempts by people who, from the net's point of view, are on the margins of society, but, from the nations point of view, are only slightly "right" of center. For those of you who wish to attack me on this, I must insist that you read my proposal, _in its entirety_. I am re-posting the article in case you deleted it. I want the net to continue to function as is, with further extensions. I want to be able to let my kids (when I have them) on this same net, w/o being asked "What's bestiality?" I am not about to demand that net users modify their behavior to accomdate me. I want a system in place so that sysops aren't forced to constantly overlook their entire system in order to avoid legal hassles. Nathan A nation that fears guns in the hands of its citzens.... should.

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NYET objections
by nzook＠math.utexas.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Subject: NYET objections There were two objections raised so far that could actually apply. 1) Kids will talk about what they want to talk about. That's true, unavoidable, etc etc etc. Also irrelevant. I'm not talking about censoring what leaves a home. I'm talking about parents themselves limiting what comes in. I'm talking about a parent deciding that Jonny doesn't need to know a.s.b even exists. If a parent decides that some newsgroup or some file system contains info they don't want coming in, they kill it themselves, from their own home, for their own kids. ONLY. 2) What about crossposts? I intended to specifically mention crossposts. A message that was crossposted from/to a forbidden group is itself not displayed.

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Re: Cryptosplit note
by rarachel＠prism.poly.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is precisely what I like about cypherpunks. I came up with an urge to write a simple crypto split beast, and in posting it and publishing it, I have caused others to polish up their old code, and post up far better software. :-) I love this list. :-) Whoever said that cypherpunks don't write code was a fool. :-)

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The penet compromise
by roy＠sendai.cybrspc.mn.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I wrote earlier that I thought the penet attack was a forked strategy intended to out anon users and flood anon.penet.fi. Now I'm not so sure it was forked. I remember trying an experiment a while back, where I posted a message to alt.test and saved all the replies. There were less than a dozen. misc.test provides much better response. That lessens the probable impact of the return traffic to a rough multiplier of 10. And given the time spread (my experiment yielded replies over 4 days), I don't know if this can be counted on to yield a denial-of-service attack. (I suppose it's possible the perp might be trying to spam penet in the original sense, by trying to overrun arbitrary limits in the server) That leaves outing as the motive. Now I'm wondering if the idea is to out as many people as possible, or if the perp is searching for a particular party or parties. The formation of the messages (from reports... I don't get alt.test locally) appears tailored for some kind of automated data collection. - -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy(a)sendai.cybrspc.mn.org PGP public key available by mail echo /get /pub/pubkey.asc | mail file-request(a)cybrspc.mn.org These are, of course, my opinions (and my machines) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAwUBLjh9+hvikii9febJAQFMqwP7B1fmRFT2BHSh1N4PseiexsxZOcQ4xxJz HzddvlkcditxGjdOUMD3HAzosIKr1IBj0mk1N9bnE2L6nBR4L6583wF551CTOEVD h9SvPp10N+FDT34DmYsb9yGoL7OXMK5Bov76++liE16NEaIdI5YvspCZ1hdcjzH0 Zhq2tV+Vhhw= =Frx+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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NYET, etc.
by L. Todd Masco 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I, for one, believe that the net is unstoppable -- and that no attempt to censor it will work in the long run (or in the short run), short of making networking computers illegal and unpopular. If people want to communicate, they will -- it's no different than day-to-day conversation in realspace: you can't monitor an entire world of individuals, short of pretty hefty AI -- even with no encryption. It's going to be a long and bloody process while people figure this out, though, and I'm not sure how recognizable our society will be once the message gets through. I'm considering moving to New Zealand for the duration. Or at least Texas. [But I'll need money first. Buy some e-books. :)] -- L. Todd Masco | Bibliobytes books on computer, on any UNIX host with e-mail cactus(a)bb.com | "Information wants to be free, but authors want to be paid."

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Re: XSPLIT problem
by rarachel＠prism.poly.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'll look into this... Basically I cut this code out of WNSTORM where it works correctly. Since I wrote this very quickly, you can tell I did minimal debugging on it... argv[2][0] should be '-' argv[2][1] should be 'R' argv[2][2] should be 'F' argv[2][3] should be ':' argv[2][4]... should be the random file. Try it without the '-' infront of RF: and see if it makes a difference. Meanwhile I'll check this out...

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NYET, coercion, and censorship
by greg＠ideath.goldenbear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Nathan Zook writes to complain that his "NYET" proposal hasn't attracted the character of criticism he'd hoped for. He explains that he's a "pro-electronic privacy religious rightist". He is using the words 'pro-electronic privacy' in a way that is new to me; I have a hard time attaching them to a person who wants to regulate the policies and recordkeeping of every sysadmin in America, who wants to make disclosure of name (which I assume means "real name", or "birth-certificate-name", or "drivers'-license-name", or whatever) and age mandatory for *every* user of an online system, who wants to criminalize false disclosure of the above, and criminalize attempts to "tamper" with the above system. Don't ever let anyone tell you that only left-wing folks are interested in getting their regulatory little fingers into every last corner of human existence, or that all right-wing folks have great respect for individual property rights and personal freedom. In addition to its regulatory burden on sysops and adult users, the proposal seems likely to eliminate all access for people under 18 whose parents aren't involved enough in their lives to want to sign onto every BBS their child is interested in. This may not be a particularly onerous burden for kids with involved and understanding parents - but kids whose parents are either disintersted or actively hostile to computer/modem use aren't likely to get far. These are the kids I think most likely to benefit from the sort of intellectual breadth and depth (ha ha, ok, so it's better than TV, at least) available on the Net. > I believe that such a system would protect the full free > expression currently enjoyed by the net, while reaffirming > parental responsibility in the upbringing of their children. I'm not sure that the burdens created are justified by simply "reaffirming parental responsibility". You'll have to come up with a much more compelling interest before you'll convince me. (And, hopefully, before your statutes would pass Constitutional muster.) The goal of "beating ourselves up to save the police some work" doesn't get all that far with me, either. Perhaps we should just go ahead and adopt Clipper, too - the legislated alternatives might be worse. (Not.) > frivolous. Porno charges would then be MUCH more difficult to > press, since a jury could be told that specific steps were > being taken to prevent access to minors. This seems like the sort of thing individual sysadmins should be able to assess themselves - whether the risk of prosecution was more burdensome than taking steps to avoid it. Shouldn't rational human beings be able to make their own choices about risk avoidance? > attempts to censor the net. Remember, we already have had a > censor for TV, movies, and radio. It is not really a question > of _if_ but _who_ and at _what level_ will this censoring take > place. But we have not had a censor for books, personal letters, newspapers, art, nor telephone calls. It *is* a question of whether censorship will take place - and I'm not ready to concede that it will. Your proposal burdens the privacy, property, and policy of sysadmins, adult users, and non-adult users. It does so to ostensibly "reaffirm parental responsibility", protect sysadmins from prosecution, and to adopt a submissive posture in the hopes that our benevolent master the State won't take away more freedom than we've humbly offered up as a sacrifice. Even if it does all that you say it will, it'll just trade one sort of sysadmin legal threat (failure to appropriately censor material) for another (failure to comply with identification/registration/user access regulation). As a sysadmin I'm much more scared of the latter. A cost/benefit analysis from my perspective says the proposal loses. I do think there's some real merit to the suggestion folks have made that you *start your own system* and do your own censorship, excising the naughty bits that nice kids shouldn't see. At least here in Oregon, there are plenty of folks who seem ready to poke their own kids' eyes out rather than let them see two men holding hands - I think there'd be a real market here for "sanitized Usenet". Look at Tragedy - people keep signing up for the fucking thing, and a Netcom account costs only a wee bit more. Yow. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.5 iQCVAgUBLjib/33YhjZY3fMNAQFCGQP+OVMkPRT4f6pwxSunuEwUj88hsL+PC+Ui 2Z90xM8pFimIF43NRa8oPPSAZdsE2owsSj88eTevlbMB3Qs21w1oquXKt0n0shUw ib/qEPUVibXAP1si7tJ8FPwoxPy2pkfUbkmaAwDDoOj72wn8wQ4HQm4Sz6qu5OXr 42URv1wg+ZI= =oZT4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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who cypherpunks
by Justin Lister 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

who cypherpunks lists info cypherpunks end -- +---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+ | ____ ___ | Justin Lister ruf(a)cs.uow.edu.au | | | \\ /\ __\ | Center for Computer Security Research | | | |) / \_/ / |_ | Dept. Computer Science voice: 61-42-214-330 | | | _ \\ /| _/ | University of Wollongong fax: 61-42-214-329 | | |_/ \/ \_/ |_| (tm) | Computer Security a utopian dream... | | | LiNuX - the only justification for using iNTeL | +---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

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Anonymous code name allocated.
by daemon＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You have sent a message using the anonymous contact service. You have been allocated the code name an118216. You can be reached anonymously using the address an118216(a)anon.penet.fi. If you want to use a nickname, please send a message to nick(a)anon.penet.fi, with a Subject: field containing your nickname. For instructions, send a message to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Folks, we GOTTA do something about this... Nathan

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Re: The penet compromise
by lcottrell＠popmail.ucsd.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- How many of us have suffered from this attack? I just recieved a message indicating an annon ID had been created for this account. The account I acctualy have an anon ID for has not been affected as far as I know. Since this account, and not the other, is used for posting to Cypherpunks I suspect that the attacker is using a list of recent posters (I did post from the other account to this group in the distant past). Is there any remidy we can use? I gather there is no way to invalidate an anonymous ID. I guess I will just assign a password and not annon mail from this account. :( Has Julf been contacted about this? My anon ID from this attack is: an118079(a)anon.penet.fi I will not be using this ID, and will have it revoked ASAP. Anything from that account is not from me. Check the signature. Let me know if it is used. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLji/11Vkk3dax7hlAQEIKAP+MHP7BJPfaOBOmo3XGEuNSG2vzKd0pwXb 1KIYgj6GML274x12DIy3LFCldnqVl9dxqY7FDxGqHXtnGE7HiBzJ/sCuMomDcrep IGE9hYgx33NKHh5/ZjSeCU3LlFfsg5dO1T5uAj++WnY3UD6Nih1bJ5jFr8PY0fsZ TVRKSP4xk/s= =0duW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell who does not speak for CASS/UCSD loki(a)nately.ucsd.edu PGP 2.3 key available by finger or server. "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche

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Re: Microsoft, Master-Keys, and DMS
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry writes: > As I've noted, according to a reliable source, Microsoft is a vendor > of software for DMS, so although its not part of the products Merriman > is mentioning, there are key escrow features in some software being > delivered by Microsoft. I've heard on the net that the Defense Messaging System (DMS) will be using Tessera cards, but I really don't understand how they could use a key-escrow* system for classified data, which is what the DMS is designed to carry. After all, that would mean that the classified data would be accessible to people without a direct need to know, which is non-kosher. At minimum, the master key for each card would have to be classified at the maximum level the card is authorized for (non-surprising), and the Key Generating Bureau's Family keys would have to be classified at the maximum level *any* cards using it are authorized for (or different family keys for each level, I suppose, which has the added benefit of making different-level cards non-interoperable.) But making that data classified means that classified data needs to be stored on the card, which either means handling it as classified material (awkward), or putting *lots* of trust in the chip's tamperproofnesss (doubtful). Alternatively, there may be some way to get Tessera cards to do Skipjack encryption without sending the wiretap block at the beginning of the conversation, either by simply not doing it, or by superencrypting that block for transmission (which is the classic Clipperphone hack known since the beginning.) Bill

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Re: Denning and Walker on SKE and International Escrow
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > International Cryptography Institute 1994: Global Challenges > > Presented by > > The National Intellectual Property Law Institute > > > >The International Cryptography Institute will focus on problems and > >challenges associated with the use of cryptography within nations and > >for international communications. The Institute will address such [Denning/Walker/Freeh agenda deleted] Out of curiousity, does anyone know if this "Institute" was pre-existing, or if it was put together for the purpose of having a good academic-sounding name for a whitewash conference? [I suppose this could be compared to pseudospoofing.....] Bill

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Re: No SKE in Daytona and other goodies
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Aron Freed What is the difference if a big company subjects its employees to a key-escrow system or if the government does it with the people. If you think about it, the government could coerce the company into reading through information being passed back and forth.... ................................................. With a private company, you can negotiate with the owners, or leave. With the government, you have no choice. If the governors decide to coerce a company into complicity with surveillance over internal correspondence, it can do this anyway by other means - that is, it can get access over any material it deems necessary for "legitimate law enforcement needs", even hard-copy files. The desire for absolute control isn't limited to governments, and it doesn't originate in the institution, but in the psychology of the beholder. Blanc

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Re: No SKE in Daytona and other goodies
by tcmay＠localhost.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

" that one guy" wrote: >1) I've got Daytona running on a machine right next to me. It doesn't >feature any type of key escrow. Come to think of it, it doesn't >support data encryption. > >The version I have is build 683, which is supposed to be the >next-to-last, so it's unlikely MS will suddenly start adding new >stuff, especially since they're already late. Oh please! Just how many times am I supposed to repeat my point that I make no claims that any imminent release of Chicago or Daytona or System 7.2 is likely to have SKE included? I've pointed out that the TIS algorithm is only now being coded, but that the *general field* of key escrow seems to involve some behind-the-scenes manouverings which should give us all pause. Saying that "version 683" doesn't have SKE is beside the point. The real issue is just how all the work on SKE described in the Denning conference coming up in September (the full agenda is posted in the crypto newsgroups) is to be implemented if *not* by the OS and system software vendors. The Microsoft guy who wrote the long letter to me on the various issues involved, the tradeoffs, the export issue (apparently SKE will allow some products to be exported that would otherwise be illegal to export), etc., is clearly working on this key escrow business. Only time will tell if Microsoft has ever met with NIST/NSA on software key escrow...if they have, and pressures were put on MS to comply with the new scheme, then we'll all have reason to worry. If Microsoft has never met with NIST/NSA or Denning or TIS on this matter, and was only pursuing SKE research on its own initiative, without any incentives or threats from the government, then I will withdraw my speculations and cheer Microsoft on. (The same thing applies to Novell, Apple, etc. I'm not picking on Microsoft...I've just heard more substantive comments from them than from other companies.) I once again urge Microsoft to make this situation clearer. And I don't mean with a predictable, pro forma, "We have no intentions of including software key escrow at this time." Such corporatespeak comments are useless. We need to see a public debate on software key escrow, regardless of Microsoft's involvement one way or another. And we shouldn't wait until the press conference is held to announce the program! --Tim May .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: NYET, coercion, and censorship
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The goal of wanting to allow one's kids to read the net without them being exposed to "adult material" that they're not old enough to deal with is not unreasonable, though I know people with a variety of attitudes toward that aspect of child-raising. One way to implement it is the heavy-duty authentication of adults vs kids, with the network infrastructure designed to authenticate everything so you can identify all posters, etc. Most of us are probably against that :-) (By the way, similar sorts of things have been proposed by the "get schools on the information highway" movement.) But there's another way to do it, taking an end-to-end approach, using PGP tools. Give all the kids who want to participate PGP keys, with a web-of-trust created for certifying a web of "good kids" (you can have the center of the web be the parents' organization, or your churches, or PTAs, or Kidsnet or whatever), and use tools that only allow them to receive PGP-signed messages - shouldn't be too hard to modify a web client, nntp server, or mail-wrapper to do it, and it doesn't force any structure on the rest of the net. You also have to modify the tools to sign messages they originate. Now, to make it possible for your kids to find enough screened material to be interesting, you'll have to organize a lot of people, but that's inherently part of the job. Alternatively, you can build gateways from "trusted" information sources; if Prodigy's censorship is adequate, gate in prodigy messages. If Clarinet news is something you consider reasonable, since it's almost all wire-service news, then gateway that into your net as well, if you can find a way to satisfy licensing. If you want to add "well-behaved adults", you can add them too, though you may want to leave your net tools flexible enough that they can also read the open network. That way, we can all coexist, and it puts the burden on the people who want special services, rather than having them force everyone else's tools and policies to change. It's also more honest, by pointing out to the users that they're getting a special pre-screened service, rather than implying that the rest of the world wanted a fully-controlled network. Bill

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Re: Catch-22
by trollins＠debbie.telos.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From Hal <hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> >trollins(a)debbie.telos.com (Tom Rollins) writes: >>Well, >>I received a nice package with letter from... >> United States Department of State >> Bureau of Politico-Militart Affairs >> Office of Defence Trade Controls >That's interesting that they went to the effort to track you down. >Do you have any idea of how they found out about your package? Was >that the one that started all the fooferaw on sci.crypt with PRZ >upset about someone shipping a modified version of his program? Don't know how they found out about the package. Yes, that was the package that started the fluff. -tom

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big bro
by Heynowiko＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Do you have any interesting government e-mail addersses?

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Re: Just say NYET to kneejerking
by gtoal＠an-teallach.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I must admit that I'm disappointed. I figured that I would take some hits, but for people to only scan a post before reaching for the lighter... Don't be such a condescending shit. We read your post clearly enough, thank you very much. Typical control-freak crap. If you want your little xtian kids to be namby-pamby'd on the net, start up your own business and offer them restricted access yourself, but don't try to tell the rest of us how to run our systems. It's the responsibility of the parents to restrict the children's access, not the net. I've no more against a Falwell-style BBS than I have against their loony TV channels, just don't force me to have to use one. By all means encourage proper upstanding xtian parents to fund a suitable system for their own children to use, but lay off the regulation bullshit. That was lies disaster for free speech everywhere. G PS There was a good article on the US xtian right-wing's attempts to infiltrate Republican politics in the Guardian, Mon July 25. They have a good quotation from Ralph Reed, the exec director of the Christian Coalition: "I want to be invisible, " (talking about their political manoeuvering), "I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag. You don't know it's over until election night." Friends like you, and Schafly, we can do without, thank you Nathan.

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Re: Catch-22
by gtoal＠an-teallach.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> United States Department of State > Bureau of Politico-Militart Affairs > Office of Defence Trade Controls That's interesting that they went to the effort to track you down. Do you have any idea of how they found out about your package? Was that the one that started all the fooferaw on sci.crypt with PRZ upset about someone shipping a modified version of his program? I doubt very much they tracked him down. I imagine some two-faced back-stabbing shit on sci.crypt or cypherpunks shopped him. I didn't agree with his attitude over the PGP hacks either, but this sort of in-fighting is just going too far. I hope some FOIA someday turns up the name of the back-stabbing bastard. Personally I have a shortlist of two. G

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penet hack
by gtoal＠an-teallach.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone know what all these names have in common? These are some of the userids that the person hacking penet has been trying to find. They don't all look like either cypherpunks or usenet crypto people to me. G angilong(a)bach.seattleu.edu angilong(a)bach.seattleu.edu archer(a)elysium.esd.sgi.com armond(a)delphi.com anon09e3(a)nyx.cs.du.edu aross(a)oregon.uoregon.edu asg(a)jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca asuter(a)Xenon.Stanford.EDU aw54(a)aol.com barrett(a)iastate.edu best(a)anasazi.com bjeffrey(a)crl.com brooking(a)lynx.navo.navy.mil cj419(a)aol.com ckalina(a)gwis.circ.gwu.edu cjburke(a)io.com clamen(a)CS.CMU.EDU conover(a)max.tiac.net deniero(a)ace.com blackadd(a)news.delphi.com c_robert(a)sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU christopher.klepacz(a)daytonoh.ncr.com eba(a)netcom.com dsm(a)iti-oh.com dtwede(a)med.umich.edu dw627(a)cleveland.Freenet.Edu dspiegel(a)oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu ecsd(a)well.sf.ca.us 133an(a)ppsdev1.sch.ge.com mwilson(a)ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM barbose(a)netcom.com 1l26coop(a)bnr.ca 8226(a)suzie.tccn.com 860099w(a)eagle.acadiau.ca AHALL@FMRCO.COM@roundtbl.sccsi.com AXSDL(a)ASUACAD.BITNET =o=(a)remarque.berkeley.edu 895822ja(a)cent.gla.ac.uk 1l26coop(a)bnr.ca Bill.Wenzel(a)f1571.n363.z1.fidonet.org C476014(a)mizzou1.missouri.edu af786(a)cleveland.Freenet.Edu acm(a)kpc.com ecsd(a)well.sf.ca.us eddy(a)crl.com ed(a)twain.ucs.umass.edu eeyimkn(a)unicorn.nott.ac.uk ejh(a)larry.gsfc.nasa.gov edward.rhodes(a)nccbbs.network23.com eris(a)bga.com energia(a)uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ablow(a)mentor.sdsu.edu etc(a)po.CWRU.Edu/hj ejohnso8(a)mason1.gmu.edu ag848(a)cleveland.Freenet.Edu elliott(a)medea.princeton.edu elyse.zois(a)syncomm.com evansmp(a)mb52112.aston.ac.uk eeb1(a)kimbark.uchicago.edu evansmp(a)mb52112.aston.ac.uk ewill(a)wv.mentorg.com elcid(a)iastate.edu adrianrc(a)astro.ocis.temple.edu exutpsc(a)exu.ericsson.se fallous(a)ksu.ksu.edu ez022854(a)dale.ucdavis.edu evrwrite(a)powergrid.electriciti.com etellefsen(a)lehman.com eylerjs(a)ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu farthing(a)leland.Stanford.EDU fergie(a)netcom.com felinoid(a)ccnet.com fishe(a)casbah.acns.nwu.edu foleye(a)viper.CS.ORST.EDU flash(a)austin.lockheed.com etc(a)po.CWRU.Edu frazzle(a)aol.com fjc(a)gracie.atl.hp.com fsjsd(a)acad3.alaska.edu fwp(a)fwpbbs.mcs.com gails(a)denebs.cray.com fwells(a)pmafire.inel.gov gannon(a)sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu garvin+(a)pitt.edu gibson(a)bmrl.med.uiuc.edu ggentry(a)kuhub.cc.ukans.edu guenther(a)kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de jbrown(a)apollo3.com jks2x(a)fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU jmc3k(a)honi2.acc.Virginia.EDU ajc1(a)mail.ast.cam.ac.uk jar41610(a)uxa.cso.uiuc.edu kenh(a)YaleADS.CIS.Yale.Edu lange(a)dseg.ti.com ahall(a)fmrco.com ak8188(a)albnyvms.bitnet ak877(a)cleveland.Freenet.Edu fj(a)cwi.nl lee(a)g1.rmc.ca

2 1

Re: No SKE in Daytona and other goodies (fwd)
by paul＠poboy.b17c.ingr.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May disses "that one guy" thusly: > Oh please! Just how many times am I supposed to repeat my point that I make > no claims that any imminent release of Chicago or Daytona or System 7.2 is > likely to have SKE included? I've pointed out that the TIS algorithm is > only now being coded, but that the *general field* of key escrow seems to > involve some behind-the-scenes manouverings which should give us all pause. No doubt. But what does the OS provider gain from including encryption in the OS? At present, customers aren't demanding it. Why add SKE at all when no one's asking for it? Apple is able to export System 7 Pro right now because it uses 40-bit RC2/RC4 for some limited client-server stream encryption. It won't do file or disk encryption. > The real issue is just how all the work on SKE described in the Denning > conference coming up in September (the full agenda is posted in the crypto > newsgroups) is to be implemented if *not* by the OS and system software > vendors. Remember that all these vendors want to sell OSes *and* to control the future of that particular technology. I'd bet that MS At Work is where Microsoft is most interested. FWIW I agree with Tim: it's time to start asking the OS vendors some hard questions. I'll volunteer to talk to Apple. Tim & Blanc Weber seem to have good wires into Microsoft. Bill Stewart's suggestion about shareholder resolutions is a good one, too, for those who are shareholders of the various companies. Finally, never forget the power of "divide & conquer"; if MS does something unpalatable, that gives Novell, Apple, et al a reason _not_ to do that same thing. - -Paul - -- Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG | "Information is the currency of democracy." perobich(a)ingr.com | - some old guy named Thomas Jefferson Of course I don't speak for Intergraph. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLjj9wKfb4pLe9tolAQGNOAP/ToRXGcggXLxr+pOU0Zipt+FXTMFTs7M1 F6c7W/vuNcYX143GsdCu1QG7n7xyZdaBCMp/Z5K2dAI1Q1UaDkFmyrGa+Zr/uolO ZjowvE7uXy1SN+7SmsizAznFetIVzVMgLPrU4wnMRpN+4nm8fQXJOEfopzVpdjA0 xslqhXxgGk0= =NUxC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

5 5

Re: penet hack
by Justin Lister 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From the list I recognized barrett(a)iastate.edu the infamous -MB- from comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, was to c.s.a.a what LD is to sci.crypt and cypherpunks. He also appears on irc - so I tried tracking others on the list to see if the list was related to irc, didn't appear to be (though it is a good source of user lists). -- +---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+ | ____ ___ | Justin Lister ruf(a)cs.uow.edu.au | | | \\ /\ __\ | Center for Computer Security Research | | | |) / \_/ / |_ | Dept. Computer Science voice: 61-42-214-330 | | | _ \\ /| _/ | University of Wollongong fax: 61-42-214-329 | | |_/ \/ \_/ |_| (tm) | Computer Security a utopian dream... | | | LiNuX - the only justification for using iNTeL | +---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

1 0

Stealth ported to DOS & OS/2 part 1/2
by 7CF5048D＠nowhere 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is a pgp signed binary =pcstlth.zip Not encrypted. part 1/2 This did not arrive, I think sending again. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE, PART 01/02----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUALjaioQ2Gnhl89QSNAQHeqAP7BPi9yx5o8rxbdwTly+VnHffINXpxjiQ+ Tkt0UiXMCka0aS5MQOWX7aJX3cc6Z8wAF4k/r8hltz+byYnGdI2M6S/V/cZk2Yhg AYkASoQioZd/WaCzyE7RZujCoC+n38T0Vkqx1U1Ycoyu4Uls/1HJXpKgctcIbA/u 10dKT24JzN6txNJiC3Bjc3RsdGguemlwAAAAAFBLAwQUAAAAAABXVvscAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAABAAAAERPUy9QSwMEFAAAAAgAF1f7HOhS4rs7AAAASQAAAAwAAABNQUtF RklMRS5ET1NTVkjOzy3IzElVSMsvUkjKL8pJzEtRSFYw1jPg5SouSU3MKcnQS61I teKEcZJ5uTiTkpMVdHOLFZDEAFBLAwQUAAAACADRbFMcfiTPpHoBAACBAgAADAAA AE1BS0VGSUxFLk9SR01STWvrMBA8d3/FgnNowHHba3mBBuejhfTFkKT0VhR5E4vK kpHl9OXfv5WtkF5ksTszOztWAgluPQntK/x4yh4hAdgs39aLLU6xHRqZRYD1fLme rbZTvgZO3jlHxusLWsNHZ9Q/bLumsc5TmWJJR2UI93/fPvFoHYoBUQtZcT3F/Xbx tXsvWMhblI6EJ/RUM124Cx6VphaVwQdfNykKU/aEYlUUs93rb0pFNeOCTEVYKkfS WxZorDLsIyAPl7535ZI5K2dNzd7xLJwSB00ZbhjiflRLUelHaY0HimPKYCWU5bD0 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NYET to censors, REPOST
by nzook＠math.utexas.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For those of you who didn't read it all last time... Copyright 1994, Nathan Zook. All rights reserved. Intelectual copyrights pending. NYET-- Non-Youths Exhibit Temperance. Before I start, it may be informative to consider that I consider myself to be a hard-line member of the Christian Conservative movement, and a hard- line advocate of electronic privacy. I am a PhD candidate in mathematics at the University of Texas of Austin, and I got the Electronic Privacy language added to the 1994 Republican Party of Texas platform. I am a member of Trinty Evangelical Free Church, and am twenty-seven years old. As the Internet community continues to grow, the differences of conviction that exists generally in the world find their way into the community. Some demand that newcomers to the net adapt to the mores of this society. Some demand that the net, as a newcomer to the world, adapt to the outside. As recent events have demonstrated, the less reasonable, on both sides, may be endangering the integrity and availablity of the net. Calls for net censorship, it may be expected, will continue to grow unless the net can find some way to police itself. Yet "police itself" is a term that sends the net into fits. My solution, NYET, is for the appropriate users to directly censor the data that they might legitmately lay claim to censoring--data that flows to minors over which they have legal authority and responsibility. Specifically, this is a plan to create two sorts of accounts to the net-- adult and minor. Adult accounts may only be obtained by persons of age eighteen. Minor accounts may only be obtained as adjuncts to adult accounts, refered to as supervisor accounts. Adult accounts would have full access to anything on the net. News readers, telnet, ftp and like software being operated from a minor account would check a file in the adult account to allow access. Newsreaders, in particular, would censor any posts crossed from a non-allowed account. The control files in the supervisory accounts would default to allow-only mode, but could be selected to deny-only. The legal framework that I see important in aiding such a system is as follows: State Level: 1) Declare to hold harmless those BBS operators for charges of Contributing to the Delinquacy of a Minor that obtain and verify the age of account holders, and maintain a NYET system of access for minors. Certain acceptable verification methods specified, with authority to add methods delegated to a regulatory agency. Emphasis to be on ease and speed of verification. Special consideration for in-house systems. 2) Make it illegal to misrepresent age and name data to a BBS. Require BBS operators to maintain a record of age and name of account holders for thirty days after opening of account for hold harmless agreement, and allowing deletion of said data afterwards. 3) Declare aiding in tampering with NYET system to be "Contributing to the Delequency of a Minor". Federal Level: Pass paralell laws for BBSs operating with local numbers from two or more states, or for BBSs operating with 800 numbers. I believe that such a system would protect the full free expression currently enjoyed by the net, while reaffirming parental responsibility in the upbringing of their children. The burden of controlling access devolves all the way to the parents, making charges against BBS operators patently frivolous. Porno charges would then be MUCH more difficult to press, since a jury could be told that specific steps were being taken to prevent access to minors. If parents complained that they didn't want to go to the trouble of spelling out what their children could access, the response is clear: "Oh, so it's not worth the effort to you?" Despite slurs in this group to the contrary, I believe that the proposed us.* heirarchy may well be the first in a series of attempts to censor the net. Remember, we already have had a censor for TV, movies, and radio. It is not really a question of _if_ but _who_ and at _what level_ will this censoring take place. Nathan (Adjusting flame gear)

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