Re: No SKE in Daytona and other goodies (fwd)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May disses "that one guy" thusly:
Oh please! Just how many times am I supposed to repeat my point that I make no claims that any imminent release of Chicago or Daytona or System 7.2 is likely to have SKE included? I've pointed out that the TIS algorithm is only now being coded, but that the *general field* of key escrow seems to involve some behind-the-scenes manouverings which should give us all pause.
No doubt. But what does the OS provider gain from including encryption in the OS? At present, customers aren't demanding it. Why add SKE at all when no one's asking for it? Apple is able to export System 7 Pro right now because it uses 40-bit RC2/RC4 for some limited client-server stream encryption. It won't do file or disk encryption.
The real issue is just how all the work on SKE described in the Denning conference coming up in September (the full agenda is posted in the crypto newsgroups) is to be implemented if *not* by the OS and system software vendors.
Remember that all these vendors want to sell OSes *and* to control the future of that particular technology. I'd bet that MS At Work is where Microsoft is most interested. FWIW I agree with Tim: it's time to start asking the OS vendors some hard questions. I'll volunteer to talk to Apple. Tim & Blanc Weber seem to have good wires into Microsoft. Bill Stewart's suggestion about shareholder resolutions is a good one, too, for those who are shareholders of the various companies. Finally, never forget the power of "divide & conquer"; if MS does something unpalatable, that gives Novell, Apple, et al a reason _not_ to do that same thing. - -Paul - -- Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG | "Information is the currency of democracy." perobich@ingr.com | - some old guy named Thomas Jefferson Of course I don't speak for Intergraph. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLjj9wKfb4pLe9tolAQGNOAP/ToRXGcggXLxr+pOU0Zipt+FXTMFTs7M1 F6c7W/vuNcYX143GsdCu1QG7n7xyZdaBCMp/Z5K2dAI1Q1UaDkFmyrGa+Zr/uolO ZjowvE7uXy1SN+7SmsizAznFetIVzVMgLPrU4wnMRpN+4nm8fQXJOEfopzVpdjA0 xslqhXxgGk0= =NUxC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Paul Robichaux writes:
No doubt. But what does the OS provider gain from including encryption in the OS? At present, customers aren't demanding it. Why add SKE at all when no one's asking for it?
Ah, the exact question for us to be asking! "Why add SKE at all when no one's asking for it?" Indeed. Why the upcoming conference on key escrow? Why the representatives from Germany, Netherlands, France, etc.? Where is the public debate about these things? (I'm not claiming, by the way, that corporations have to debate with the public before developing features--I'm a free market sort. But it's clear that more than just isolated product developments are involved. The extent of collusion between vendors and goverments is unclear, but signs point to such collusion.)
FWIW I agree with Tim: it's time to start asking the OS vendors some hard questions. I'll volunteer to talk to Apple. Tim & Blanc Weber seem to have good wires into Microsoft.
We may be able to rally enough opposition this time around to make work on SKE an "unsocial" thing to do (Recall our strategy of making Clipper vendors corporate outcasts, with our "Big Brother Inside" approach?).
Finally, never forget the power of "divide & conquer"; if MS does something unpalatable, that gives Novell, Apple, et al a reason _not_ to do that same thing.
"Just say 'No" to key escrow." --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Timothy C. May:
We may be able to rally enough opposition this time around to make work on SKE an "unsocial" thing to do (Recall our strategy of making Clipper vendors corporate outcasts, with our "Big Brother Inside" approach?).
Um, how much good has this actually done? Kragen
Timothy C. May:
We may be able to rally enough opposition this time around to make work on SKE an "unsocial" thing to do (Recall our strategy of making Clipper vendors corporate outcasts, with our "Big Brother Inside" approach?).
Um, how much good has this actually done?
Kragen
I'd say it's pretty obvious, from the many articles, editorials, etc. against Clipper. Cypherpunks were by no means the only, or even the dominant, factor. Many factors were involved. Clipper became a national joke, with 80% of polled Americans against it. And corporations were loathe to associate themselves with it, especially after the initial, highly-negative reaction. A campaign of ridicule is often effective. If and when Microsoft unveils government-friendly key escrow, I expect we'll be ready with some nice slogans...I know I will! --Tim May, coiner of "Big Brother Inside" and other slogans. -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Someone hacked me into this list, but I am no longer interested in this stuff. I never received anything instructional regarding how to remove myself from the list. Assistance would be appreciated. Thanks. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FNORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tommy the cat is my name, /\ To achieve independence from alien domination And I say unto Thee: / \ and to consolidate revolutionary gains, five -----------------------/ MediaK \ steps are necessary: ---------------------
The correct and sensible thing for Microsoft to do is to put hooks in their OS whereby a convenient interface can be provided to any encryption system. They may well do this, and (truthfully) tell the US they are providing infrastructure for key escrow and (truthfully) tell cypherpunks they are providing infrastructure for crypto anarchy. and (truthfully) tell shareholders that they are preparing their operating system for a world of world wide networks. This would be the archetypical Bill Gates maneuver. So before screaming at them, let us see what they are doing. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we James A. Donald are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. jamesd@netcom.com
participants (5)
-
Christopher P Howard -
jamesd＠netcom.com -
paul＠poboy.b17c.ingr.com -
tcmay＠netcom.com -
xentrac＠cybele.unm.edu