October 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

NSA Turns To Commercial Software For Encryption (fwd from brian-slashdotnews@hyperreal.org)
by Eugen Leitl 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

----- Forwarded message from brian-slashdotnews(a)hyperreal.org -----

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MQV -> was Re: NSA Turns To Commercial Software For Encryption
by Nymious 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

> ECC: "Our algorithm is so good it has been >licensed by the NSA". Yes. ... the MQV exchange is the 'best' authentication/key exchange protocol known. Using large ECC keys would hedge against even breakthroughs in quantum computing. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

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Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win"
by Major Variola (ret) 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

At 03:12 PM 10/27/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >spend pennies. Eventually you gotta figure that'll eat into the invasionary >funds, no? (Or am I being naive?) To a troll-like extent. The government left the gold (etc) standard so they could print money to fund wars. They will also not hesitate to confiscate more of your income to fund wars. And will confiscate your children (or you) as cannon fodder.

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Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win"
by Tyler Durden 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

"YOU want to do the encryption, not the ISP who can be secretly subpoenaed to hand over the plain text." Well, that too! My point is and has been "crypto is econnomics" (to paraphrase Tim May during one of his moments of clarity). Better to get 'them' to get a subpeona and make 'em expend the effort (and $$$), just to find out the email's about Pamela Anderson's boobs. Or, better yet, to find out the enduser also encrypted the email (AND it's about Pamela Anderson's boobs). Even if they dig out the plaintext, let them spend thousands of $$$ while we spend pennies. Eventually you gotta figure that'll eat into the invasionary funds, no? (Or am I being naive?) -TD >From: Neil Johnson <njohnsn(a)njohnsn.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win" >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:37:47 -0600 > >On Monday 27 October 2003 10:53 am, Tyler Durden wrote: > > > > Hum...can an ISP offer encryption as a service? > > > > -TD > > > >Ummm, are we forgetting about the Patriot Act and siblings ? > >YOU want to do the encryption, not the ISP who can be secretly subpoenaed >to >hand over the plain text. > >At least if you get a subpoena you know about it. > >-- >Neil Johnson >http://www.njohnsn.com >PGP key available on request. _________________________________________________________________ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

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Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win"
by Tyler Durden 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Nice! "You don't need to - just convince them that it is safe against casual snoopers (and to be honest, most "sensitive" email the government couldn't give a damn about, but your neighbours would find very interesting indeed :) As long as you get the desired end result (them using crypto) do you really care what they think?" Hum...can an ISP offer encryption as a service? -TD >From: "Dave Howe" <DaveHowe(a)gmx.co.uk> >To: "Email List: Cypherpunks" <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> >Subject: Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win" >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:27:00 -0000 > >steve(a)njord.org wrote: > > On Saturday 25 October 2003 04:27 pm, Tyler Durden wrote: > >> secure (every ask anyone if they believed there was such a thing as > >> effectively 'unbreakable' encryption? Reglar folks always believe > >> SOMEBODY'S got the technology to break what scheme you use, so "why > >> bother"). > > I have a few friends like this....anyone have suggestions for ways to > > change their minds? > > Basically they say things like "If you think the government can't > > break all the encryption schemes that we have, you're nuts." This > > guy was a math major too, so he understands the principles of crypto. >Simpler solution there then is to say >"well, good - that means that the Government can still monitor terrorists, >but that the minimum-wage employees answering the helpdesk at AOL can't >read though your mail while they are bored." > > > I feel pretty confident that 2048 bit encryption is reasonably safe > > for now, but how can I convince others, and how safe should I really > > feel in that opinion anyway? >You don't need to - just convince them that it is safe against casual >snoopers (and to be honest, most "sensitive" email the government couldn't >give a damn about, but your neighbours would find very interesting indeed >:) >As long as you get the desired end result (them using crypto) do you >really care what they think? _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com

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Re: NSA Turns To Commercial Software For Encryption
by Major Variola (ret) 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

At 11:00 PM 10/26/03 -0800, Morlock Elloi wrote: >Isn't it really simpler to use RSA and DH and ECC in series ? Why choose ONE ? >There is no good reason for that. 1. Silly Elloi, you can only use DH when both parties are online. And of course RSA and DH have similar failure modes -ie factoring. ECC may have similar failure modes with RSA/DH, I'm not sufficiently informed. A chain of different kinds of padlocks might look strong but they all dissolve in aqua regia. >Looks like PSYOP to me. That's an interesting explanation I hadn't considered in my previous post. (Sort of like putting a stone facade on that new iron bridge because some folks don't trust the newfangled iron bridges.) However using such keys are a heavy practical cost for PSYOPs.

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Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win"
by Burning Cows with Strauss 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 25 October 2003 04:27 pm, Tyler Durden wrote: > Tim May wrote... > > secure (every ask anyone if they believed there was such a thing as > effectively 'unbreakable' encryption? Reglar folks always believe > SOMEBODY'S got the technology to break what scheme you use, so "why > bother"). I have a few friends like this....anyone have suggestions for ways to change their minds? Basically they say things like "If you think the government can't break all the encryption schemes that we have, you're nuts." This guy was a math major too, so he understands the principles of crypto. I feel pretty confident that 2048 bit encryption is reasonably safe for now, but how can I convince others, and how safe should I really feel in that opinion anyway? Steve - -- Steve Wollkind 810 C San Pedro steve(a)njord.org College Station, TX 77845 http://njord.org/~steve 979.575.2948 - -- All these worlds are belong to us, except Europa. Take off no zigs there. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/mwqO0uexoyuzySARApnNAKCUxOrLDh2gk1Ls5piL1zsnXzhHuwCfUW5l AYtOw2wfT0EqlvhWxo5rup4= =12ec -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Certicom? [...] [Fwd: NSA Turns To Commercial Software For Encryption] (fwd from harley@argote.ch)
by Eugen Leitl 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

----- Forwarded message from "Dr. Robert J. Harley" <harley(a)argote.ch> -----

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Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

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Re: "If you use encryption, you help the terrorists win"
by Major Variola (ret) 26 Oct '03

26 Oct '03

At 12:57 PM 10/26/03 -0800, Jurgen Botz wrote: >Wasn't there a Mafioso who got busted and convicted based on >evidence that had been PGP encrypted and where they stole the >key with a keyboard dongle? Nicodemo Scarfo. He used his Dad's federal-prison ID number, but the Feds couldn't guess that, so they blackbagged his computer with a dongle. I don't know who was lamer. It *is* a parable for our community; they could also have used videobugs. There was also, later, some dude who keyboard-bugged Kinkos and got caught. Another sermon from the mount. What *is* your threat model?

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