October 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

moderated cryptography list
by pmetzger＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, all. I'm looking for a site willing to host a high-quality moderated cryptography mailing list which I am thinking of starting up. The list would be designed as a low volume, high readership, high quality source for 1) In-depth technical discussions of cryptography 2) Announcements of cryptographic products 3) Announcements of news items of interest to the cryptography community. 4) VERY limited numbers of postings on the social implications of cryptography, and I mean VERY limited. All postings would be explicitly approved by the moderator before going out to assure quality. Yes, that means fascistic restriction of your capacity for free speech, in exchange for not being overwhelmed with garbage every day. It is ultimately envisioned that should the list be a success I would try to move it to a moderated Usenet newsgroup. If you think that such a list is a Good Thing, and you can host it (which requires that you have a good internet connection and root access or similar on the machine in question), please let me know. I'll do all the work, and the crypto community will thank you tremendously. Perry Metzger

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Re: Anarchy Gone Awry (fwd)
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This post is a perfect example why the two lists should be kept seperate and not merged. This sounds to me like it belongs on alt.politics.data- highway. -uni- (dark)

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Re: CHAUM CHIMES IN
by cme＠ellisun.sw.stratus.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: 08 Sep 93 16:30:55 EDT >From: Sandy <72114.1712(a)CompuServe.COM> >Subject: CHAUM CHIMES IN >Message-Id: <930908203054_72114.1712_FHF95-2(a)CompuServe.COM> ..From: > SANDY SANDFORT Reply to: ssandfort(a)attmail.com [ . . . ] >Of course, the next letter to the editor calls for the adoption >of systems to track every vehicle at all times. The genius who >wrote the letter, thinks it would be a good way to prevent >nuclear, biological or chemical terrorism. Geeeeez. It was signed by Dorothy Denning, right? Actually, they should take that to its full conclusion. We need implants in every individual, broadcasting to the local surveillance agency, giving not only location but also every word spoken in the vicinity. It could also do a chemical analysis of the air in the neighborhood. It should also have a radiation counter. It should also monitor the host body, looking for signs of anger or sexual arousal? How else will we be guaranteed safe from mad bombers, rapists and child molesters? How else will our big budget LE agencies be able to protect us? I know. When it's finally adopted, worldwide, they'll call it the Ellison Plan. :-( - Carl

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Stegno and DAT and digital music...
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In this week's Sunday NYT, Hans Fantel, their music guy, writes at length about the new "dithered" CD's and how the guys have improved the sound. He says that the original CD format was limited to 16 bits of sound because of costs. But many audiophiles reacted very negatively to the tinny, metalic quality to the music. For this reason, the companies have developed 20 bit DAT recording tape and then come up with ways to "dither" this into 16 bits. I am curious if anyone knows the details of these algorithms. Also, his point suggests that flipping the least significant bit of 16 bit music may not be imperceptable to some ears. If the classical music starts to sound tinny then there might be something subversive in the least significant bits. -Peter Wayner

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Remail: errors
by HFinney＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have been out of town for the last week, so I missed some CP mail. It looks like some good things are happening with remailers, though. Kudos to Karl, Sameer, and the others for their work! I have received many messages to my remailer in the last week which came from remail(a)tamsun.tamu.edu, which were PGP-encrypted apparently in an effort to get my remailer to send them. They did not work, though, because there was no "Encrypted: PGP" header to trigger the remailer's decryption. This can be arranged by creating the message something like this: ======================================================== :: Request-Remailing-To: hfinney(a)shell.portal.com :: Encrypted: PGP - -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- <rest of message> - -----END PGP MESSAGE------ ======================================================== This would then be sent to remail(a)tamsun.tamu.edu. I don't know whether the multiplicity of such erroneous messages is just due to one person stubbornly re-trying, or whether there is an error in one of the new programs for creating chained remailer messages. Hal Finney hfinney(a)shell.portal.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBLJaNuKgTA69YIUw3AQHrNwQAowMEQwuH6YyHoj6T7AqZFLNdTf+eqJ9L LhAatHS94nmC1smkfVNq0dZmigmkvBdMNEPlBZemmxALz+KJw6OSY/ULSBmuVNEq 5rJANh3XimoJWqLISy2lZiuC5Fw2R7UvRadcdM94pncSVvev92Fyf7CqEOOtrGAK PUzRds7BVNo= =FpLa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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more than spread spectrum
by cme＠ellisun.sw.stratus.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There are alternatives to spread spectrum, if we're threatened with loss of freedom to communicate. We could lay our own wires/fibers. We could set up a mesh network of infrared lasers through the air. Last time I looked, there were no laws against shining lights out your window as long as they didn't bother anyone. An infrared laser could hardly bother anyone. We could produce a line of cheap cards to plug into a PC which would do packet routing, using a variety of physical links -- our own wires, lasers, very low range radio, .... Each card would connect to three or more neighbors and become part of the global mesh. Adaptive routing with no global map would suffice for the card and would keep the whole system peer-to-peer with no need for central control and no chance for central tapping. Of course all of these solutions require a high density of users. A college campus might be the right place to start. We could then branch out to cities. I suspect that a place like Chicago or NYC with high rise apartments might be the place to start -- many options for line-of-sight communications. The benefit isn't just for Cypherpunks. It's a free network for the masses -- like the original USENET (with each user donating routing and store/forward) but with unrestricted, low-range, continuously operating physical links. I'll volunteer to do the software for the node card. Does anyone have hardware design/fab to donate to the effort? - Carl

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Re: NSA Turns To Commercial Software For Encryption
by Major Variola (ret) 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

At 10:01 PM 10/26/03 -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote: >On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Eugen Leitl wrote: > ><snip> >> In the case of the NSA deal, the agency >> wanted to use a 512-bit key for the ECC system. This is the >> equivalent of an RSA key of 15,360 bits." > >Am I the only one here who finds this "requirement" excessive? My god: are >we looking to keep these secrets for 50 years, or 50000 (or more) years? In meatspace engineering of life-critical systems, you might design for a few times more than you need under worst-case conditions. Eg, on a bridge: high winds, heavy trucks densely spaced, poor maintenance, poor materials. Remember that bridges fall down when you do something new, like use steel. Or nowadays: planes fall out of the sky because you don't know how composites fail. The NSA might be hedging against future algorithmic improvements. If tomorrow you could factor numbers (or the ECC equivalent) with twice the number of bits, will your spies die? Cf. East German Stasi files, and some south-american files being cracked.

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Chaumian blinding & public voting?
by Major Variola (ret) 03 Nov '03

03 Nov '03

Is is possible to use blinding (or other protocols) so that all votes are published, you can check that your vote is in there, and you (or anyone) can run the maths and verify the vote? Without being able to link people to votes without their consent. Currently voting is trusted because political adversaries supervise the process. Previously the mechanics were, well, mechanical, ie, open for inspection. The current genre of voting machines.. well, you know the scam. And still reliant on a few adversarial human monitors. Something like this: The day after elections a list of hex codes -votes- are published. You can find in that list the code that you received (on paper) when you voted, to verify that your vote counted. You can run an algorithm on any subset of codes, including just your own, and learn which candidate that code corresponds to. Everyone can run on the entire dataset, verifying the tally. You don't have to divulge which code is yours if you want it to remain secret. Perhaps the code could contain not only the intended vote, but a unique voter ID so that hexcodes could not be added to the dataset (cf dead people not allowed to vote except in Chicago) without setting off alarms. Perhaps anyone could verify that someone voted, or not, but could not figure who they voted for without their cooperation. Apologies if I should know this, I haven't gotten my head around all the M of N, blinding, database translucency, etc protocols.

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Cisco LEAP (fwd)
by J.A. Terranson 31 Oct '03

31 Oct '03

I thought this forum would be able to provide the good gentleman with more accurate data that the typical that is to be found on the below mentioned mailing list. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin(a)mfn.org "Every living thing dies alone." Donnie Darko ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:11:59 -0800 (PST) From: No Man <noman4222(a)yahoo.com> To: pen-test(a)securityfocus.com Subject: Cisco LEAP I'm sure everyone is aware of the recent discussion regarding LEAP and it's suceptiblity to dictionary attacks. As I understand it, it is basically the MS-CHAP problem: the 16 byte RC4 hash is padded with 5 nulls, split into three 7 byte chunks, then each chunk is encrypted with DES. The last chunk, since you know it has 5 nulls, is pretty easy to get That gives you the last two bytes of the hash, which you then compare for matches with the last two bytes in a precompiled dictionary of hashes. What about using a very large dictionary of all possible combinations for a given password length to, in effect, "brute force" it? Take for example a 6 character password made of lowercase letters and numbers. 36^6 works out to about 2.2 billion possibilities. Your dictionary or 2.2B rc4 hashes would take up roughly 40GB. I guess the plain text that the hash was calculated from would be in there too, so it would be a little larger, but suffice it to say that it would fit on a fairly typical hard drive. So, I'm wondering several things. Consider typical newer Intel hardware. 1) what would it take time-wise to create the dictionary? 2) how long would it take to cycle through 40 gigs of hashes to find the matches? 3) how many matches on the last two bytes of the hash are there likely to be? Thanks in advance for any help in deciding how big of an issue this really is! Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Network with over 10,000 of the brightest minds in information security at the largest, most highly-anticipated industry event of the year. Don't miss RSA Conference 2004! Choose from over 200 class sessions and see demos from more than 250 industry vendors. If your job touches security, you need to be here. Learn more or register at http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/RSA_pen-test_031023 and use priority code SF4. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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ECC and blinding.
by Neil Johnson 31 Oct '03

31 Oct '03

Will ECC work with blinding (Chaum, Brands, etc.) techniques? Just curious. -- Neil Johnson http://www.njohnsn.com PGP key available on request.

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