January 2002 - cypherpunks-legacy

Gay NaughtyMail Newsletter
by Charles Ozier 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

Don't know if you are the right contact but I am still having a problem with the GAY newsletter. Had rec'd it for months, than it stopped after making some purchases! I contacted you, and started to receive them again, only to have it stopped again? if you are NOT the correct contact, please advise, if you know, where I would send an e-mail. Thanks

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Detweiler, Vulis, Toto, John Young, and mattd
by faustine.＠hushmail.com 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim wrote: >And that we often see with your own posts, John. Namely, a mix of >schizophrenia, dyslexia, paranoia, and Tourette's Syndrome. Some are more >dyslexic than others, and it's likely that with some the word juxtapositions >and malapropisms are completely intentional. >I used to thing folks were trying to emulate Detweiler, then Toto. Now >I'm thinking there's some common miswiring in the brains of these folks. Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick! Now that's a fine piece of psychobabble if ever I heard any. You really ought to spend some quality time with the MMPI and the DSM-IVR instead of dismissing it as "chick stuff". Not only would your insults be more to the point, youd also figure out what "normal people" have to say about YOU. Pot and kettle be damned, here you go, you beyond-good-and-evil Overman, you: The Mask of Sanity: An Attempt to Clarify Some Issues About the So-Called Psychopathic Personality by Hervey Cleckley (Hardcover - November 1988) *** Philippe Pinel (1745-1826) used the term insanity without delirium to describe behaviour that was marked by complete remorselessness, but the modern concept of "psychopathy" was put forward by Hervey Cleckley (1903-1984) in his classic work The Mask of Sanity (1941). According to Cleckleys criteria a psychopath is an intelligent person characterised by poverty of emotions, who has no sense of shame, is superficially charming, is manipulative, who shows irresponsible behaviour, and is inadequately motivated. Interspersed in Cleckley's vivid clinical descriptions are phrases such as "shrewdness and agility of mind," "talks entertainingly," and "exceptional charm" (Hare, 1993, p. 27). Cleckley also provides a striking interpretation of the meaning of the psychopath's behaviour: The [psychopath] is unfamiliar with the primary facts or data of what might be called personal values and is altogether incapable of understanding such matters. It is impossible for him to take even a slight interest in the tragedy or joy or the striving of humanity as presented in serious literature or art. He is also indifferent to all these matters in life itself. Beauty and ugliness, except in a very superficial sense, goodness, evil, love, horror, and humour have no actual meaning, no power to move him. He is, furthermore, lacking in the ability to see that others are moved. It is as though he were colour-blind, despite his sharp intelligence, to this aspect of human existence. It cannot be explained to him because there is nothing in his orbit of awareness that can bridge the gap with comparison. He can repeat the words and say glibly that he understands, and there is no way for him to realize that he does not understand (Cleckley, 1941, p. 90 quoted in Hare, 1993, pp. 27-28). ...The American Psychiatric Association's category of antisocial personality disorder (introduced in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition, 1980) was supposed to have covered psychopathy, but because clinicians were not thought sufficiently competent to assess personality traits the DSM definitions have concentrated on the antisocial and criminal behaviours associated with the condition. This has blurred the distinction between psychopaths and criminals, and of course most of the latter are not psychopaths. Antisocial Personality Disorder (category 301.7) is described in DSM-IV simply as "a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood This pattern has also been referred to as psychopathy, sociopathy, or dyssocial personality disorder" (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, p. 645). This confusion of terminology is especially damaging for research because whereas DSM-IV describes APD as "associated with low socio-economic status" (1994, p. 647)psychopathy "seems less likely to be associated with social disadvantage or adversity" (Rutter, Giller & Hagell, 1998, p. 110). Robert Hare has described his attempts to identify true psychopaths as a prison psychologist in the early 1960s. Most of the personality "measures" or "instruments" popular at that time, such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI), were questionnaires based on self-reporting. When administered to psychopaths, who are expert at "impression management" (Hare, 1993, p. 30) these instruments are less than reliable. One of the inmates in Hares research program even had a complete set of MMPI tests and interpretation manuals and, for a fee, would advise fellow inmates on the correct answers to show the steady improvement more likely to lead to parole. ...Hare decided to construct his own Psychopathy Checklist in order to have a method of separating psychopaths from the rest of the prison population, and this method is now used throughout the world. The Checklist highlights the key emotional and interpersonal symptoms of psychopathy: psychopaths are said to be glib and superficial; egocentric and grandiose; to lack remorse or guilt; to lack empathy; to be deceitful and manipulative; and to have shallow emotions. ...while the non-psychopaths made the moral/conventional distinction, the psychopaths did not; secondly, and in contrast with predictions, that psychopaths treated conventional transgressions like moral transgressions rather than treating moral transgressions like conventional transgressions; and thirdly, and in line with predictions, that psychopaths were much less likely to justify their items with reference to victims welfare (Blair & Morton, 1995, p. 20). ...What is most outstanding about psychopaths is that they appear extremely at ease with themselves. They can be articulate, are often highly intelligent, and are regularly described as "charming", and "convincing". Psychopathy is not associated with low birth weight, obstetric complications, poor parenting, poverty, early psychological trauma or adverse experiences, and indeed Robert Hare remarks "I can find no convincing evidence that psychopathy is the direct result of early social or environmental factors" (Hare, 1993, p. 170). ...psychopaths use psychotherapy sessions to develop their skills in psychological manipulation, and because they see no need to change their admirable personalities (Hare, 1993, pp. 192-206). LOL!! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Hush 2.1 Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com wl4EARECAB4FAjw407EXHGZhdXN0aW5lLkBodXNobWFpbC5jb20ACgkQGwpHwwWoj8Vf ZwCdHlDTWpA/ACJInOhnjys1yRPJMiIAni+6xN9NajYNoE2UZtu1S90dnM5a =I8Fv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Detweiler, Vulis, Toto, John Young, and mattd
by mattd 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

>>. A joke beats a wise statement any day of the week for content, style and performance. << Great post JYA! >>>WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD? >>> >>> >>> From the Human Resources/Training Perspective: >>> The chicken had a vision. The chicken was proficient in the core >>> competencies necessary to implement the plan and make the vision >>> reality. >>> >>> Pat Buchanan: >>> To steal a job from a decent, hard-working American. >>> >>> Machiavelli: >>> The point is that the chicken crossed the road. Who cares why? The >>> ends of crossing the road justify whatever motive there was. >>> >>> Thomas de Torquemada: >>> Give me ten minutes with the chicken and I'll find out. >>> >>> Timothy Leary: >>> Because that's the only kind of trip the Establishment would let >>> it take. >>> >>> Carl Jung: >>> The confluence of events in the cultural gestalt necessitated that >>> individual chickens cross roads at this historical juncture, and, >>> therefore, synchronicitously brought such occurrences into being. >>> >>> John Locke: >>> Because he was exercising his natural right to liberty. >>> >>> Albert Camus: >>> It doesn't matter; the chicken's actions have no meaning except to >>> him. >>> >>> Fox Mulder: >>> It was a government conspiracy. >>> >>> Darwin: >>> Chickens, over great periods of time, have been naturally selected >>> in such a way that they are now genetically dispositioned to cross >>> roads. >>> >>> Darwin #2: >>> It was the logical next step after coming down from the trees. >>> >>> Richard M. Nixon: >>> The chicken did not cross the road. I repeat, the chicken did not >>> cross the road. >>> >>> Oliver Stone: >>> The question is not "Why did the chicken cross the road?" but is >>> rather "Who was crossing the road at the same time whom we >>> overlooked in our haste to observe the chicken crossing?" >>> >>> Jerry Seinfeld: >>> Why does anyone cross a road? I mean, why doesn't anyone ever >>> think to ask, "What the heck was this chicken doing walking around >>> all over the place anyway?" >>> >>> The Pope: >>> That is only for God to know. >>> >>> Louis Farrakhan: >>> The road, you will see, represents the black man. The chicken >>> crossed the "black man" in order to trample him and keep him down. >>> >>> Martin Luther King, Jr.: >>> I envision a world where all chickens will be free to cross roads >>> without having their motives called into question. >>> >>> Immanuel Kant: >>> The chicken, being an autonomous being, chose to cross the road of >>> his own free will. >>> >>> Grandpa: >>> In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Someone >>> told us that the chicken had crossed the road, and that was good >>> enough for us. >>> >>> Dirk Gently (Holistic Detective): >>> I'm not exactly sure why, but right now I've got a horse in my >>> bathroom. >>> >>> Bill Gates: >>> I have just released the new Chicken 2000, which will both cross >>> roads AND balance your checkbook, though when it divides 3 by 2 it >>> gets 1.4999999999. >>> >>> M.C.Escher: >>> That depends on which plane of reality the chicken was on at the >>>time. >>> >>> George Orwell: >>> Because the government had fooled him into thinking that he was >>> crossing the road of his own free will, when he was really only >>> serving their interests. >>> >>> Plato: >>> For the greater good. >>> >>> Aristotle: >>> To actualize its potential. >>> >>> Karl Marx: >>> It was a historical inevitability. >>> >>> Nietzsche: >>> Because if you gaze too long across the Road, the Road gazes also >>> across you. >>> >>> B.F. Skinner: >>> Because the external influences, which had pervaded its sensorium >>> from birth, had caused it to develop in such a fashion that it >>> would tend to cross roads, even while believing these actions to >>> be of its own freewill. >>> >>> Jean-Paul Sartre: >>> In order to act in good faith and be true to itself, the chicken >>> found it necessary to cross the road. >>> >>> Albert Einstein: >>> Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road crossed the >>> chicken depends upon your frame of reference. >>> >>> Pyrrho the Skeptic: >>> What road? >>> >>> The Sphinx: >>> You tell me. >>> >>> Buddha: >>> If you ask this question, you deny your own chicken nature. >>> >>> Emily Dickenson: >>> Because it could not stop for death. >>> >>> Ralph Waldo Emerson: >>> It didn't cross the road; it transcended it. >>> >>> Ernest Hemingway: >>> To die. In the rain. >>> >>> Saddam Hussein: >>> This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite >>> justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. >>> >>> Saddam Hussein #2: >>> It is the Mother of all Chickens. >>> >>> Joseph Stalin: >>> I don't care. Catch it. I need its eggs to make my omelette. >>> >>> Dr. Seuss: >>> Did the chicken cross the road? >>> Did he cross it with a toad? >>> Yes the chicken crossed the road, >>> but why it crossed it, I've not been told! >>> >>> Colonel Sanders: >>> I missed one?

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Seveso in the Summer
by Nomen Nescio 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

At 01:12 PM 1/6/02 -0500, cubic-dog wrote: > >TCDD or, 2-3-7-8-tetrachlorodibenzo-P-dioxin (C12,H4,Cl4,O2), is a >CONTAMINATE artifact of the heat exchangers used in the reaction process >not a constituent as so often stated. Seveso, Italy, is a real fun place to visit. Roll up your windows. ---- How do you spell relief? C-A-R-C-A-N-O

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Two Reviews: TV Spy Shows and "A Beautiful Mind"
by mattd 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

>>A recent episode used "anonymous remailers" as a plot device, with spies using them to communicate.<< Memo to jya.Couple of years to APster,tops. >>This show has been remarkably prescient (though not to folks like us) about public events. Episodes already in the can before 911 dealt with the Al Quaida terrorists, anthrax, and suitcase nukes. Some were deemed so close to real world events that they were delayed, sometimes more than once.<< Tims delay on commenting on the FBI anthrax investigation freeze; Senility or treachery or BOTH!? >> The only exciting scenes were of a woman killing someone on a jet and then rigging explosives to detonate the escape door (she had a chute).<< Sandline,the UK mercenary outfit have a couple of Boeings,presumably for sale/hire.Mundane reality.Anarcho-capitalist army of the future? >> Less related to spy themes, "UC: Undercover." A good series about an FBI undercover infiltration team.<< They spy on the Soprano's pretty good.Directly related to spy themes anyone with a normal mind on this list might notice,Tims slipping. >>Now, on to "A Beautiful Mind." I'll try to forget Bob Hettinga's gratuitous, but oh-so-typical, negative comparison of me to the John Nash character.<< Nash had some nasty *nazi* strands.Not like our Timmy.Oh no,never.Stop it! >>There are several themes in this movie of interest to (some) Cypherpunks list subscribers: 1. Nash's role in game theory. Especially the theory of Nash equilibria, which relates closely to Schelling points, which relates closely to notions of where "rights" come from.<< That relates to Tims fascination with technical sounding obscurantist,dehumanizing jargon.Tim has a right to enjoy scientologist style crap. >>2. Codes and code-breaking. This is somewhat fanciful, for reasons which become clear a bit later in the movie. << Language as communication not code is something Tim disapproves of. >>3. Paranoia and schizophrenia. Nash would have done well on the Cypherpunks list, had it existed back in the 1950s.<< Not Tims list.See archive for Pope Tim's excommunication of jim bell,early 96.plus many more recent papal Bulls. >>(edit)...However, anybody who doesn't know the basics of game theory--payoff matrices, games of chicken, prisoner's dilemma, etc.--is not likely to understand the "who gets the blonde" very brief scene. Too bad, as the game theory part is what was most interesting to me.<< You lost a game of chicken with me last week and dont seem understand prisoners dilemma,also you keep going on about digital swiss banks.Are you nuts? >>(* Nash Equilibria. Imagine India and Pakistan both competing for the ultimate prize, Kashmir. Nash showed that the "best is the enemy of the good" by showing that a good-enough equilibrium exists when, say, both nations accept less than their first choice. The movie portrays this as a bunch of guys competing for a gorgeous blonde, but winning by accepting the lesser women around the blonde. As with many things in game theory, it works better in theory in practice.<< Anarcho-capitalism anyone? >>In practice, _someone_ competes for the blonde and gets her, something the abstract model skips. But the notion of Nash equilibria is important because it leads directly to Schelling points, an extension of the idea. The borders between India and Pakistan are largely a series of Nash equilibrium points. Borders are "arrived at without explicit negotiation" for information-theoretic reasons.)<< I think we might be safer in jim bells anarchy. >>The film is worth seeing for several reasons. Russell Crowe does a fine acting job.<< You might enjoy "The sum of us" then Timmy. >> The theme is interesting. Members of this list will likely find several points of resonance, though nothing explicity about politics in the film.<< Not much politics on this list since we found that "yes,we have no libertarians." >>I'm concerned, though, about elevating John Nash to superhero cult status. His "great idea" was interesting (more than anything I have done, of course),<< False modesty,Tim,You are shitloads more interesting.(or were once.) >>but was done when he was very young and can almost be seen as a pretty obvious extension of minimax and Von Neumann/Morgenstern payoff matrices..<< The Hungarians are the real trailblazers,Whit Diffie should have his own movie.Tim still loves his jargon. >> We all know that people don't compete mindlessly for the "best," that they routinely accept second-best. This is part of the cost-benefit calculus of life. Nash did more than just hand-wave about this, of course...his sets of curves have mathematical rigor. So he deserves a role in the pantheon of game theorists, but we shouldn't let his nuttiness give him more credit than he would be due if he had just evolved into a Rand Corp. talking head as so many of them did.<< Admiring johns curves,carefull Tim,you'll out yourself.Shouldn't let your fascist nuttiness give you more credit than as a Cypherpunk windsock.Any thoughts on the stupidity of peter Trei? RSA for hiring him? Say something definite for once. >>A fellow nutcase in Princeton (*) during the same period was Kurt Godel (umlaut over the single "o"). His achievement was the greater one, and he remained a member of the IAS until his death. His story would be just as interesting, though maybe not as sympathetic as Nash's.<< Whats his diagnosis oh Shrinkus Maximus? >>All in all, recommended. I thought the film started briskly but then slowed to a crawl in the third reel. It picked up again in the final reel.<< Probably how the cypherpunk movie will go.Who to play you Tim? Ronnie Cox or ned beatty? Thanks for the free reviews >>--Tim May "The State is the great fiction by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." --Frederic Bastiat<< Moving to Montana soon?

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Faustine the psychopath
by mattd 06 Jan '02

06 Jan '02

Justine,for an example of criminal psycho behavior look no further than the theft and subsequent use of PROMIS software by the Govt you come here spewing the benefits and wisdom of.(especially in Guatemala and South Africa) "This type of buggery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...

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ALL New Gov Grants Info E-Book 19208
by k12727＠ecrivain.com 06 Jan '02

06 Jan '02

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Detweiler, Vulis, Toto, John Young, and mattd
by mattd 06 Jan '02

06 Jan '02

>>You mean like your foaming-at-the-mouth denunciations of Declan and others?<< I dont know about others but the Declan thing just blew up,jya was right on declan.As for foaming check out how easily insulted declan and Tim are by extremely mild ribbing by seth.The regular froth on mass murder is background. >>By the way, calling CJ Parker a "genius" is the strangest thing I've read in a long while.<< Stranger than Tim's plan for a 'sweet spot' crypto application for the russian mafia,then his declaration of a 5 year 'crypto winter',then gotterdammerung predicted for dec 15.Then ducking the anarchy debate.Strange days Indeed. >>He fits the pattern we're now seeing with mattd, The pattern where father Tim calls us all "folks",dropping his creepy fascist mannerism's for a minute is funny. >>and that we saw in the past with Detweiler and Vulis. And that we often see with your own posts, John. Namely, a mix of schizophrenia, dyslexia, paranoia, and Tourette's Syndrome.<< Left out Aspergers,accumulation of errors,possible early sign of senility.I wouldn't bring up paranoid if I were you Timmy. >> Some are more dyslexic than others, and it's likely that with some the word juxtapositions and malapropisms are completely intentional.<< This from a lamenter of lost irony,have you considered stand up comedy? >>I used to thing folks were trying to emulate Detweiler, then Toto. Now I'm thinking there's some common miswiring in the brains of these folks. --Tim May<< No miswiring in my neo-nazi take on crypto-anarchy.TM ; Curt saxon of corralitos. >>"That government is best which governs not at all." --Henry David Thoreau<< Still in Cali Tim? Not moving to Montana soon?

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Two Reviews: TV Spy Shows and "A Beautiful Mind"
by Tim May 06 Jan '02

06 Jan '02

Some comments on two related topics, the crop of t.v. shows with espionage/CIA themes and Opie's movie "A Beautiful Mind." Spoilers follow, so skip if desired. First, this seaons's crop of spy shows. I'm watching "Alias" as I type. Not exactly believable, but fun in a "Lola Rennt" ("Run, Lola, Run") way. Jennifer Garner is a chameleon, and is gorgeous to watch. "The Agency" is a lot more believable, sometimes to the point of being a bit boring. A lot of well-known actors, including David Clennon (from old "thirtysomething" episodes, and from "From the Earth to the Moon"...I've always liked him as an actor), Will Patton (a horrible Kevin Costner movie, "Postman," and a good Kevin Costner movie, a spy movie from the late 80s), Ronnie Cox ("Robocop"), Paige Turco (a B-movie I liked), and so on. A recent episode used "anonymous remailers" as a plot device, with spies using them to communicate. This show has been remarkably prescient (though not to folks like us) about public events. Episodes already in the can before 911 dealt with the Al Quaida terrorists, anthrax, and suitcase nukes. Some were deemed so close to real world events that they were delayed, sometimes more than once. "24," the Fox-TV Kiefer Sutherland vehicle. Frankly, I have no idea whatsoever what is happening. I've seen about 4-5 f these episodes and, for all I know, they have been in random order. I have no idea who is who, what is happening, or why I should care. The only exciting scenes were of a woman killing someone on a jet and then rigging explosives to detonate the escape door (she had a chute). Less related to spy themes, "UC: Undercover." A good series about an FBI undercover infiltration team. Now, on to "A Beautiful Mind." I'll try to forget Bob Hettinga's gratuitous, but oh-so-typical, negative comparison of me to the John Nash character. There are several themes in this movie of interest to (some) Cypherpunks list subscribers: 1. Nash's role in game theory. Especially the theory of Nash equilibria, which relates closely to Schelling points, which relates closely to notions of where "rights" come from. 2. Codes and code-breaking. This is somewhat fanciful, for reasons which become clear a bit later in the movie. 3. Paranoia and schizophrenia. Nash would have done well on the Cypherpunks list, had it existed back in the 1950s. There's also a love story recurring theme, with Jennifer Connelly (local Stanford grad) as his wife Alicia. I'd read the Silvia Nasar book on which the movie was based, and I of course knew about Nash equilibria. The movie does an acceptable job of portraying Nash as a young grad student struggling with his demons and trying to make a mark. However, anybody who doesn't know the basics of game theory--payoff matrices, games of chicken, prisoner's dilemma, etc.--is not likely to understand the "who gets the blonde" very brief scene. Too bad, as the game theory part is what was most interesting to me. The movie is divided into roughly four reels: * Reel 1: John Nash arrives at Princeton in 1948, seeking desperately to prove himself with his "one great idea." He comes up with the notion of Nash equilibria (*) and gets the recognition he craves. * Reel 2: He is apparently recruited to help the Defense Department's code-breaking operations in the mid-50s and is chased by Russian agents. His paranoia afffects his life, his wife, and his child. * Reel 3: His mental breakdown. Electroshock therapy, thorazine, and meaningless scribbles in notebooks. And his novel way he decorates the walls of his office. * Reel 4: His gradual re-integration into a shadow of academic life (e.g., wandering around Princeton, hanging out in the library). His eventual Nobel Ersatz Price in Economics. (* Nash Equilibria. Imagine India and Pakistan both competing for the ultimate prize, Kashmir. Nash showed that the "best is the enemy of the good" by showing that a good-enough equilibrium exists when, say, both nations accept less than their first choice. The movie portrays this as a bunch of guys competing for a gorgeous blonde, but winning by accepting the lesser women around the blonde. As with many things in game theory, it works better in theory in practice. In practice, _someone_ competes for the blonde and gets her, something the abstract model skips. But the notion of Nash equilibria is important because it leads directly to Schelling points, an extension of the idea. The borders between India and Pakistan are largely a series of Nash equilibrium points. Borders are "arrived at without explicit negotiation" for information-theoretic reasons.) The film is worth seeing for several reasons. Russell Crowe does a fine acting job. The theme is interesting. Members of this list will likely find several points of resonance, though nothing explicity about politics in the film. I'm concerned, though, about elevating John Nash to superhero cult status. His "great idea" was interesting (more than anything I have done, of course), but was done when he was very young and can almost be seen as a pretty obvious extension of minimax and Von Neumann/Morgenstern payoff matrices.. We all know that people don't compete mindlessly for the "best," that they routinely accept second-best. This is part of the cost-benefit calculus of life. Nash did more than just hand-wave about this, of course...his sets of curves have mathematical rigor. So he deserves a role in the pantheon of game theorists, but we shouldn't let his nuttiness give him more credit than he would be due if he had just evolved into a Rand Corp. talking head as so many of them did. A fellow nutcase in Princeton (*) during the same period was Kurt Godel (umlaut over the single "o"). His achievement was the greater one, and he remained a member of the IAS until his death. His story would be just as interesting, though maybe not as sympathetic as Nash's. (Godel was at the Institute for Advanced Study, which is NOT Princeton University. I caught a scene in the film where Nash is entering Fine Hall, which, if I recall correctly, is at IAS, not at Princeton.) All in all, recommended. I thought the film started briskly but then slowed to a crawl in the third reel. It picked up again in the final reel. --Tim May "The State is the great fiction by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." --Frederic Bastiat

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Re: Future Gnu's
by mattd 06 Jan '02

06 Jan '02

>>To make a long story short Bill, what I *meant* was *exactly* what I said, no more, and no less: "Can't we just kick him: period?". The suggestion was to implant a foot in his ass - literally. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin(a)mfn.org Come and get some chump.

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