September 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
by jamesd＠echeque.com 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

-- > > Whether Aimee is a fed or not, her quite genuine ignorance > > made her incapable of knowing what views sounded > > cypherpunkish, and what views sounded violently anti > > cypherpunkish. If she is a fed, she probably also goes > > around buying crack and pretending to be a thirteen year old > > interested in sex talk. And if the feds were to assign a fed > > to our list, that is the kind of fed they would assign. That > > is all they have. On 31 Aug 2001, at 15:21, Faustine wrote: > Bah, it's dangerous to be so sure. And all the fevered talk > about Aimee being a fed is hysterical. Feds tend to stick out in the same way she does. That does not prove she is a fed of course, it is not even particularly good evidence that she is a fed, but there are feds on this list. > Haven't you ever gone to a usenet group and baited people just > for the hell of it because you were bored? She does not know enough about us to bait us correctly -- she also issues appeasing win-their-confidence stuff, and it is the wrong stuff. That incompetent buttering up very fed like behavior. Someone who does not know enough to issue the right win-their-confidence stuff usually does not care enough to issue win-their-confidence stuff. Of course it could be she is merely incompetently trying to douse the flames she has incompetently raised. The distinctive characteristic of an undercover fed is that they are pretending to be someone they are not, and doing it badly, confused about what their role is, and uninformed of how real people in that role act -- for example her recent flame againt ZKS. Real people who are really concerned about the security of ZKS, and really hate and fear the NSA, do not talk like that. Now quite possibly she is just upset by getting continually flamed, and is just putting on a rather bad act to persuade us she is on our side. But putting on a rather bad act is also something feds do. Incompetent acting is does not mean one is a fed, but if one is a fed, it means one acts incompetently. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG bvNfX+TTSpcSyw5LeyYoLXnLQ9EH6kfdobAIiWak 4NRdJFF3U6D8FTP9TYHQBiDeMBYxQri3bc6UwVsLe

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02 Sep '01

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Re: News: "U.S. May Help Chinese Evade Net Censorship"
by Tim May 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

On Saturday, September 1, 2001, at 11:30 AM, Faustine wrote: > On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 01:27 PM, Faustine wrote: > >> On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 11:43 AM, Faustine wrote: > >> Consistent with your misconception about big computers being useful for >> brute-force cryptanalyis, > > I never said that and you know it. Nice troll, though. You did indeed. Several times you alluded to what big and powerful computers the NSA must have, the better to blow our house down. When it was pointed out to you the nature of brute-forcing a big key, and how useless computers are, you seemed not to get the point. --Tim May

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Re: News: "U.S. May Help Chinese Evade Net Censorship"
by Faustine 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 01:27 PM, Faustine wrote: > On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 11:43 AM, Faustine wrote: >> Tim wrote: >>> But, as with Kirchoff's point, the attacker is going to get the design >>> eventually. >> If getting the design "eventually" were good enough, why the keen >> interest in putting in a large order for the beta? There's a reason. >> Perhaps the NSA wanted to use the product without making illegal >> copies? >> Your earlier point (that they wished to reverse-engineer the product) >> is in fact undermined by this fact that they bought N copies. > > Unless you believe reverse engineering is only useful for making pirated > copies, there's no reason to assume any sort of contradiction at all. > > As if the NSA would use anything from the private sector they didn't > know inside out. >Consistent with your misconception about big computers being useful for >brute-force cryptanalyis, I never said that and you know it. Nice troll, though. > it appears you also believe the myth about the >mighty NSA knowing more than the private sector. >You _really_ need to get an education on these matters. Are you actually claiming NSA implements COTS technology completely straight off-the-shelf? And what do any of these "you poopy head whippersnapper" comments have to do with the fact that you found a contradiction where there was none? Boss Tom Turkey in full strut. ~Faustine.

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Re: Anonymous Posting
by Nomen Nescio 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

Tim May wrote: > I don't recall the context, but I don't have any such friends or > even acquaintances. Even those I know on the Far Right don't want to > kill _all_ Jews, just the pesky freedom-stealing ones, and the > millions who form the Zionist Occupation Government in the Zionist > Entity of ZOG-Occupied Palestine. This was the remark I had in mind: Tim May wrote on August 16, 2001: > (I know folks who think Judaism is in fact far worse, and who hope > and pray for the day when 4 million Jews in Occupied Palestine are > rounded up and liquidated. I take no position on this... I see now that "all Jews" mischaracterized your statement. My apologies. > Add nerve gases and biological agents to the mix over the next > several years. Cuts both ways, of course. If the past is any guide, mostly the innocent would die. > And I won't shed a tear, as those who left New York and Oslo and > Berlin and Phoenix to go to some tiny patch of land which they claim > YHWH the Terrible granted to the sons of a desert minor > potentate--this all revealed in a hash dream by an old man, > allegedly--well, they were fools in 1948 to kick Arabs off of their > farms and out of their homes. The Jews will suffer mightily. Which > might be all they really want, oy vey! I've known very few Jewish people who believe God gave them Israel, but it clearly has something to do with why that particular patch of land was chosen. Maybe it's the Schelling point of Zionism. The area is symbolically loaded for Jewish people, but the downside is that it's important to other people as well. Most Israelis that I've known see the religiously based Zionists as crazies, especially the ones from the U.S. Saying that Israelis are a certain way because there are people in Israel with certain views is as reasonable as saying that Jim Bell is a good guide to the cypherpunks. The exact nature of Zionism seems hard to pin down, sort of like defining a "cypherpunk". It is clear that many Zionists are not religious. > And I know many people who support, as I do of course, the right of > Aryan Nation(s) to do their thing without lawsuits from offended > Jews and liberals. Last I heard, Aryan Nation(s) was not building > any gas chambers. Shutting down the "organization" due to, for > example, the murder of Allan Berg in Denver makes no more moral or > legal sense than shutting down the Catholics because some Catholics > have bombed abortion clinics. Agreed. Many prominent Catholics have publicly declared that abortion is murder. Applying the same level of integrity as has been applied in criminal trials of technical people, this could be seen as incitement. What is insidious about charging people with organizational involvement is that it bypasses the criminal justice system. The organization itself doesn't stand trial. At the same time the members are not charged with any specfic crime. Thus, the trial can consist of little more than innuendo and the defendant stands a good chance of conviction. It is very close to simple political repression. > The Jews lacked their equivalent of a Reformation, the Lutheran and > Calvinist revolution in thinking which laid the groundwork for the > modern age. And instead of moving on, embracing the future, many of > them retreated to a desert land they thought of as their historic > homeland, never mind that more Polish blood flowed through the veins > of Jews born in Krakow than blood from their ancestors who fled or > otherwise left Palestine 1500 or more years ago. But aren't you the one bringing up the racial purity theory here? I've never known a Jewish person, and I've known many, who spent any time worrying about the genetic purity of their Jewish descent. Presumably they exist somewhere, but the breed is rare. Some Jewish people do seem to have long discussions about "What is a Jew (sic)?", but they do not seem to be genetically driven. I am having a little difficulty understanding what you mean by "embracing the future". This strikes me as a straw man, but perhaps I'm not getting your point. The Jewish community, even the Jewish religious community, does not seem to have had any problem accepting scientific discoveries, which one could describe as "embracing the future". Many Christians, Protestant and otherwise, have had serious problems in this department. For example, the theory of evolution was accepted without a fuss. Even in Jewish religious schools, the theory of evolution is taught. I think the idea behind going to Palestine and founding Israel was to find a way to not be murdered any more. After over 1000 years of abuse ending with 2/3 of the group being killed, it doesn't seem unreasonable that many of the survivors would conclude that it was unsafe to live among Europeans. My guess is that they figured they could just sort of push the Arabs aside and after a bit of fuss, everybody would get used to the idea and they'd have a country where they would have full political rights and even own land without fears of confiscation. Most peoples have done exactly the same thing at some time or other. And, there was already a sizeable Jewish population in Palestine. Do you believe that Jewish activities along these lines are more offensive than similar activities by many other people? If so, do you find them offensive because they are so recent, or is it just the unpleasant fact that American money is contributing to it? > I don't care too much if Arabs and Jews are killing each other, but > I hate like hell to see taxpayer money and armaments shipped to > ZOG-Occupied Palestine to help kill more Arabs and expand ZOG > borders. Agreed. I have better things to do with my money, too. Here's my somewhat uninformed take on the Middle East: Anything the U.S. is doing there is going to be related to oil. Support of Israel gives the U.S. cards to play with the oil producing countries. If the oil producing companies are uncooperative, Israel gets new cool weapons. If they are cooperative, then the U.S. news media start talking about the bad things the Israelis are doing. When the oil producing countries complain, the answer is probably that the Jewish lobby is so powerful that the U.S. has to support the Israelis. I believe that the Jewish lobby is powerful only to the extent that they are allowed to be. If they stood in the way of U.S. policy to any significant extent, they would be curtailed. Israel also plays a useful role for the oil producing governments - they help keep the population unified. A great deal of money flowing into the area does not benefit the populations of the countries there. For example, half of adult male Saudis are illiterate. Keeping those people focused on Israel keeps them from noticing where the money is going. Also, the rulers can accuse detractors of being Israeli spies. I do not think U.S. support for Israel has much to do with post-Holocaust compassion or with the desire to support a democracy in the Middle East or with the Jewish lobby. > And I am offended--but also amused--by the irony of European Jews > recapitulating Hitler's "lebensraum" and "Endlosung" solutions so > soon after WW II ended. Yes, Jacobo Timerman ("Prisoner Without a Name, Cell Without a Number") said the same thing a few years after he fled to Israel from Argentina. He made himself somewhat unpopular by questioning the propriety of the invasion of Lebanon. Some Israelis felt he was ungrateful. Sort of interesting because the original idea was that everybody Jewish could consider themselves Israeli and therefore gratitude would not be in order. (A comparison could be made to the Palestinian situation with respect to their alleged brother Arabs.) Anyway, there is probably a well understood psychological phenomenon at work. Once somebody is abused, they will tend to find somebody else, hopefully subordinate, to mistreat. I've wondered whether this effect isn't related to explain Henry Kissinger's criminality. Kissinger lost two relatives in the Holocaust, but in his political career he associated with and backed people with less than pristine credentials. For example, Nixon had connections to war criminals associated with the Rumanian Iron Guard. The military regimes Kissinger encouraged in South America tended to have people with a certain admiration for the Third Reich. The policies pursued in Southeast Asia bear certain similarities to those of the Nazis. Timerman, incidentally, described himself as Zionist. >> People carp about Tim, but I'd like to see anybody try to do one >> Tim May quality post every day for two weeks. > Thanks, even if you're a Jew-lover. Literally the truth, although not exclusively. ;-)

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China Stories - US Busting Crypto Exports, Fighting Censorship by Corrupting Safeweb
by Bill Stewart 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

The NYT and USA Today both have articles about the Customs busting two US Chinese guys for exporting US military crypto gear. It's the KIV-7HS, made by our old buddies at Mykotronx (who made Clipper.) The NYT said the Feds were worried that if the Chinese reverse engineered it, they'd be able to crack lots of our crypto secrets. Normally I'd say that if that's the case, it's really shoddy crypto - but one of the interesting things Bamford mentions in "Body of Secrets" is that one of the US spies, I think Hansen or Walker, had been feeding crypto keys to the Russians, so the crypto gear they got from the Pueblo made it possible for them to crack years of messages; perhaps they're worried about the same thing here. Eugene Hsu of Blue Springs, MO and David Yang of Temple City CA face a maximum penalty of 10 years in jail and $1M fine. Meanwhile, the NYT had a front-page story that one of the US propaganda agencies is proposing to help fight censorship in China by promoting Safeweb, which is partly funded by In-Q-It, the CIA venture fund. They've apparently got about 100 servers, and the Triangle Boy feature makes it possible for them to keep changing IP addresses to make blocking harder. I assume if there are also Chinese Spies using it, the CIA will be able to get the operators to rat out their identities... But the main use will be to feed lots of news into China. I'd already mistrusted Safeweb - not their honesty, but their technology, since they require you to enable Javascript to use their tools. Yes, it makes it easy to write cool and powerful tools, but even if _their_ Javascript is perfectly secure, the fact that you need to have it turned on leaves you vulnerable whenever you read other web pages. (Also, their Javascript is slightly buggy; I've had trouble with window size and positioning issues.) A third China Card in the news is the GAO's announcement that they suspect that Code Red originated at a university in Guangdong. Keith Rhodes, GAO's chief technologist, gave written testimony to the House Government Reform subcommittee, but didn't return US Today's calls. Of course, the real blame belongs to Microsoft - and US Today, who are getting surprisingly technical this week, has a couple of articles about the recent Hotmail/Passport hacks, in which security consultant and former Yahoo security advisor Jeremiah Grossman, who had recently cracked Hotmail in three lines of code, now has it down to one line... This is another cross-site scripting attack.

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Re: secure IRC/messaging successor
by Derek Atkins 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

gale has scaling problems to large numbers of users, in particular for group messaging. -derek Eugene Leitl <Eugene.Leitl(a)lrz.uni-muenchen.de> writes: > Gale http://www.gale.org/ seems a well thought out infrastructure. Is the > consensus "this is it", or have I missed any alternatives? -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord(a)MIT.EDU PGP key available --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com

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SIG: Fwd: [PGP-USERS] ANNOUNCE: PGP Source Code Now Available For Download (fwd)
by Jim Choate 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 05:13:52 -0400 From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com> To: Digital Bearer Settlement List <dbs(a)philodox.com>, dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu, cryptography(a)wasabisystems.com Subject: Fwd: [PGP-USERS] ANNOUNCE: PGP Source Code Now Available For Download --- begin forwarded text

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Re: News: "U.S. May Help Chinese Evade Net Censorship"
by jamesd＠echeque.com 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

-- On 30 Aug 2001, at 14:41, Faustine wrote: > Of course it has a trap door, that's probably the whole point > of getting it over there in the first place. And by the way, if > you're going to question SafeWeb for cooperating with CIA, you > might as well criticize ZeroKnowledge for selling a boatload of > the Freedom beta to the NSA in 1999 as well. What did they > think they wanted it for, farting around on Usenet? I bet they > had that sucker reverse-engineered and compromised in two > minutes flat. Stands to reason. I think it most unlikely that they could compromise rot-13 in two minutes flat, and as for reverse engineering, any decent crypto system makes its engineering publicly available, so that reverse engineering is quite unnecessary. No one should ever use a system that has to be reverse engineered. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG vmwKl1+31thMlrC2hl4XzwiD6EPSMqrBX8OqN5J0 4qFXhFjCIcqlGNHPzxbUC4Kfz95pkdg5H60E8+j1v

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01 Sep '01

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