August 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
by Gil Hamilton 31 Aug '01

31 Aug '01

Nomen Nescio wrote: [snip] >The answers it gives depends on the questions you ask. If your questions >are simple enough (untraceability good?) then your chart will answer >them. If your questions are more interesting (what technologies can >be practically implemented and make a positive difference in the world) >then you need a better chart. You (and Aimee) make the mistake of assuming that all of us believe that we are living in the best of all possible worlds. Many people however believe that we [read: our government(s)] are in a downward spiral that is converging on police-and-welfare-state. In the US for example, we long ago abandoned our constitution. We still give it much lip service and we still have one of the "more free" societies but things are trending in the wrong direction. Each year more oppressive laws are passed, more things are made illegal to say or write or - if some have their way - think. (And of course it goes without saying that these things that are prohibited to us are available to "authorized users": those in intelligence, law enforcement, etc. - the usual "more equal" individuals.) More of our incomes are stolen to be redistributed to the lazy and undeserving, who have every incentive to continue voting for the politicians who will continue to transfer money from productive individuals to them. At the same time, more twits like you and Aimee spring up, always ready to say "no, you mustn't say such things - you don't really mean that, do you? How could anyone even think such things?" As Tim has pointed out over and over, you need to read up on cypherpunks themes, goals and history. His signature has included this inscription for years (though he seems not to be using it lately): Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments. Did you think he didn't really mean it? As a start on getting up to speed on alternatives to our current "system of government" (and excellent entertainment besides), I recommend you read these works: "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson "The Ungoverned" by Vernor Vinge There are many others that could be added to this list but just reading these will give you a taste of some alternative societies that might be in many ways preferable to the current kleptocracy. - GH (who admits he's been heavily influenced by Mr. May) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: kuro5hin.org || How Home-Schooling Harms the Nation
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 31 Aug '01

31 Aug '01

David Honig <honig(a)sprynet.com> : >At 09:13 AM 8/29/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: >>http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/28/1868/27867 > > I've been reading the cover article in Time magazine about home > schooling, and it makes me wonder. One of the primary questions the > article poses is this: "Home schooling may turn out better students, but > does it create better citizens?" Also present is the accusation that home > schooling threatens the current public education system: > > "Home schooling is a social threat to public education," says > Chris Lubienski, who teaches at Iowa State University's > college of education. "It is taking some of the most affluent > and articulate parents out of the system. These are the > parents who know how to get things done with > administrators." > I think he's probably wrong here - I would guess that the most affluent and articulate parents send their kids to private schools because they're too busy keeping the lifestyle financed to run a school or realize that they would probably suck at it. If I win the Lotto I'll consider it. I'll risk $1 today. > >Funny that, a State employee putting home education down. > Funny that, the only people I've ever met who were home schooling their kids were fundamentalist christians who objected to all kinds of perceived immorality and wrong teaching like sex ed and evolution. In my estimation they were poorly equipped to give their children a good education. I have no doubt that there are many exceptions to what I've seen but those who will do a really fine job of educating their children are probably in the minority of homeschoolers. >In any case, the notion that parents should sacrifice their children >for the good of society is abhorrent. > You mean like when we send young males to war so the ones who stay home will have less competition? Keep an open mind about the home schooling/private schooling vs. public schooling discussion. One facet that I see is that fundamentalists via a strong influence on the republican party are trying to divert public funds to religious organizations. My reading of the 1st is that the state may not establish a religion. Giving money to a religious organization is tantamount to establishment. My reading of the 1st also leads me to the conclusion that the tax-exempt status of the churches is wrong. They should pay their fair share of the fucking property taxes like every other victim. Another facet is that the well-to-do are attempting to remove their funds from the systems so they can use those funds to educate their children as they choose. A voucher system would surely benefit me financially. This is a reasonable desire but it will have a negative effect on the public school systems and a subsequent negative effect on the society as a whole. I know the masses are a bit thick but do you want them to be even thicker? And not all bright people come from priviledged backgrounds. Do you want to limit the opportunities for some of the brightest kids in the country before they've even had a chance? I'm not saying that it (vouchers or other defunding) should be ruled out but you should at least think about the implications a bit. Aimee style question : How many of you were home schooled? How many went to private schools? How many went to public schools? I would guess roughly 1% 9% 90% I wish there were more ( and better ) educational choices and that those choices were reflected reasonably in the financial systems but every proposal I've seen so far sucks moose bladder through a hairy straw. Mike

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OPT: Sarah Flannery on Cayley-Purser: An Investigation of a New Algorithm vs. the RSA
by Jim Choate 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

http://www.cayley-purser.ie/#The_Cayley_Purser_Algorithm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
by mean-green＠hushmail.com 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

At 09:56 PM 8/25/2001 -0700, Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote: .... some really great stuff deleted >CONCLUSION: > >To really do something about untraceability you need to be untraceable. > >Draw this graph I outlined. Think about where the markets are for tools for privacy and untraceability. Realize that many of the "far out' sweet spot applications are not necessarily immoral: think of freedom fighters in communist-controlled regimes, think of distribution of birth control information in Islamic countries, think of Jews hiding their assets in Swiss bank accounts, think of revolutionaries overthrowing bad governments, think of people avoiding unfair or confiscatory taxes, think of people selling their expertise when some guild says they are forbidden to. > >Most of all, think about why so many efforts to sort of deploy digital cash or untraceability tools have essentially failed due to a failure of nerve, a failure to go for the brass ring. Right on target. There is one aspect to this loss of nerve not mentioned: the correlation between those with the means and interest to pursue these avenues and those with merely the interest. One of this list's members shopped here and elsewhere a few years back for participation in building a DBC-based payment and value system. He had assembled a team with the banking experience, needing the technology implementors. None were willing to put their talents to the test. They all nodded regarding the need for such a facility but none would expend any efforts. They were all being courted by the failed dot.bombs which waved generous salary and stock offers. Now that the tulip market has evaporated along with the dreams of quick riches I wonder if any these pseudo-zealots were ever really interested or was it a merely a childish fancy from the start? As Tim demonstrates the opportunity is still there it waits only for those with the right stuff to grab for the ring. Free, secure Web-based email, now OpenPGP compliant - www.hushmail.com

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pennies for IRS (or non-dumb JB)
by Secret Squirrel 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

http://macontelegraph.com/content/macon/2001/08/27/local/ETHREDGE0827.htm By Rob Peecher Telegraph Staff Writer EATONTON --- Jesse Ethredge doesn't care much for President Bush, and he doesn't hesitate to say so. In fact, if you're following the 57-year-old Eatonton man down the road, you'll quickly learn just exactly what he thinks of Bush. "Don't U blame me. Thief --- Liar --- Two Faced Murderer Geo W. Bush. Hell with Bush and all damn Republicans." Those are the words printed, in plastic stick-on letters, on the back of the camper on Ethredge's truck, which is also adorned with a cartoon child urinating on the word "Republicans." Those also are the words that earned Ethredge a visit from the U.S. Secret Service last week. "They came Tuesday, wanting to ask me what did I mean by that there," Ethredge said, pointing to the slogan on his truck. "They asked me a bunch of questions, like if he was to come into my driveway, what would I tell him. I said I'd tell him to get out as fast as he come in it. ... They wanted to see if I was a danger to him." Bush has been closer to Ethredge than one might expect. During the campaign, Bush made at least two visits to Reynolds Plantation on Lake Oconee in Greene County. Ethredge said he believes the visit from the Secret Service was initiated by a man who had come to his house the week before. Ethredge, who lives on Lake Sinclair, has a car with a for sale sign on it parked in his front yard. A few days before the Secret Service came to see him, Ethredge said a man stopped at the end of his driveway. "I come out to see what he wanted; I thought he wanted to buy the car. But then he started talking about the sign and asked me if I knew I could get in trouble with the Secret Service for that. I told him if that's all he was here for, he could leave the same way he came here," Ethredge said. "If I see him again, I'll give him a mouthful." Putnam County sheriff's detective Lee Wilson confirmed it was a call from someone who had seen Ethredge's truck that brought the Secret Service to Eatonton. "We got a call from somebody who had seen his truck and noticed a sign that (the caller said) says 'murder George Bush,' " Wilson said. "I called the Secret Service, and they sent an agent down, and we interviewed (Ethredge) as a matter of policy to see what his mind-set is and if he poses any threat to the president." Wilson said Ethredge cooperated during the interview. "Although he didn't have a lot of use for (Bush), he didn't have any intentions of causing him physical harm," Wilson said. "As far as (the sheriff's office) is concerned, it's a closed matter. I don't want to speak for the Secret Service, but based on my conversation with them, they'll document having contact with (Ethredge)." It was a similar anti-Bush (though a different Bush) slogan on the same camper shell that more than a decade ago got Ethredge much attention from the media and from officials at Robins Air Force Base, where he has worked as a civilian employee for 34 years. That sign --- "Read my lips hell with Geo. Bush" --- got Ethredge a ticket charging him with "provoking speech on a truck" when he drove it onto the base April 5, 1990. The ticket was dismissed since there is no statute against "provoking language on a truck," but in October 1991, Ethredge received a letter from Col. Robert Hail, then-deputy base commander at Robins. The letter instructed Ethredge not to come onto the base with "bumper stickers or other similar paraphernalia which would embarrass or disparage the Commander in Chief." Ethredge contacted the American Civil Liberties Union, and a First Amendment lawsuit naming Hail as the defendant ensued. A U.S. district judge ruled against Ethredge, saying the base did have the power to limit bumper sticker content. Ethredge appealed to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, and the 11th Circuit initially ruled the case moot since Bush lost the election to Clinton. So, Ethredge says, he added a line about Bill Clinton "more or less to keep the case going." While he has no love for Republicans --- the first sign Ethredge had on a vehicle was about Ronald Reagan --- Ethredge said he didn't really have anything against Clinton. But he nonetheless added a slogan to his truck that read, "Hell with Clinton and Russian aid." The 11th Circuit then ruled against Ethredge, and the lawsuit ended there, said Gerry Weber, the ACLU attorney handling the case. "We stopped at the 11th Circuit level," Weber said. "Just within the context of a military base, people's free speech rights are as restricted or potentially more restricted than inmates in a jail." Weber said he was surprised to hear Ethredge had become, if only briefly, the subject of a Secret Service probe. After hearing the content of the new slogan, Weber said, "That doesn't sound like it warrants a Secret Service investigation." Weber also said a state statute outlawing obscene or lewd messages on bumper stickers was struck down by the state Supreme Court, so Bush supporters wishing to silence Ethredge have no recourse there. Ethredge --- who also is well known at the Putnam County Tax Commissioner's Office, where he pays his property taxes in pennies --- has not worked at Robins since 1998 when he left on a workers' compensation claim after a knee injury. He plans to retire next month.

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Já Disponível !
by info＠giganetstore.com 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

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Re: News: "U.S. May Help Chinese Evade Net Censorship"
by Meyer Wolfsheim 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Faustine wrote: > And as long as you have companies like ZeroKnowledge who are > willing/gullible/greedy/just plain fucking stupid enough to sell their > betas to the NSA, you never will. Okay, that clinches it. You're a moron. Why *shouldn't* ZKS, or any other company, sell their products to the NSA? Do you honestly think that ZKS could prevent the NSA from obtaining a copy of a commercially available product? "Welcome to Faustine's Privacy Shoppe, your one-stop shop for privacy protection software. Now, please submit to a background check to determine that you are not, and have never been, an employee of the US Government, the DoD, or have family members employed by the same. Please agree, under penalty of dealth, not to share this software with the NSA or any other Big Scary Agency who might break our software. Here at Faustine's Privacy Shoppe, we believe security through obscurity is the only way!" Next you're going to argue that PGP is now more secure than it ever was, because the source code is closed. Please. Educate yourself. - -MW- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: pgpenvelope 2.10.0 - http://pgpenvelope.sourceforge.net/ iQEVAwUBO47c+CsFU3q6vVI9AQFLVgf/Uey1a+gw966KAZTLhm9/wRjzese46/xU y9Ib5RChb013w9RIsYqPDapu6i6/9l2bcaC+vljmqHNK/xIAMddnSfp2UT1IofAs 6BJ0S0eXEyGeNoCvW2l/HcAHabXKfRKgCOJGqOFCAckEEmDJelv1ccV4A/el9ck4 L/raak/DSS836r717ZQLau1KCtDoGuIu/pA5geAso0oHMHhtsIIk7eXkPQHFnJOV dJLjx2/jmO6kBXQmDV3yCru/vypxUZ648UjnXf2wlp7uUUGJe0uI+oKR8v3qqZ4P 8qlYcBQeLiDvUUZzrVXhHBQ9B7Gu6k5imcM7pIOtOIi2kjiB/GOlSg== =3i3q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anonymous Posting
by Frog2 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

Tim May wrote: > I don't recall the context, but I don't have any such friends or > even acquaintances. Even those I know on the Far Right don't want to > kill _all_ Jews, just the pesky freedom-stealing ones, and the > millions who form the Zionist Occupation Government in the Zionist > Entity of ZOG-Occupied Palestine. This was the remark I had in mind: Tim May wrote on August 16, 2001: > (I know folks who think Judaism is in fact far worse, and who hope > and pray for the day when 4 million Jews in Occupied Palestine are > rounded up and liquidated. I take no position on this... I see now that "all Jews" mischaracterized your statement. My apologies. > Add nerve gases and biological agents to the mix over the next > several years. Cuts both ways, of course. If the past is any guide, mostly the innocent would die. > And I won't shed a tear, as those who left New York and Oslo and > Berlin and Phoenix to go to some tiny patch of land which they claim > YHWH the Terrible granted to the sons of a desert minor > potentate--this all revealed in a hash dream by an old man, > allegedly--well, they were fools in 1948 to kick Arabs off of their > farms and out of their homes. The Jews will suffer mightily. Which > might be all they really want, oy vey! I've known very few Jewish people who believe God gave them Israel, but it clearly has something to do with why that particular patch of land was chosen. Maybe it's the Schelling point of Zionism. The area is symbolically loaded for Jewish people, but the downside is that it's important to other people as well. Most Israelis that I've known see the religiously based Zionists as crazies, especially the ones from the U.S. Saying that Israelis are a certain way because there are people in Israel with certain views is as reasonable as saying that Jim Bell is a good guide to the cypherpunks. The exact nature of Zionism seems hard to pin down, sort of like defining a "cypherpunk". It is clear that many Zionists are not religious. > And I know many people who support, as I do of course, the right of > Aryan Nation(s) to do their thing without lawsuits from offended > Jews and liberals. Last I heard, Aryan Nation(s) was not building > any gas chambers. Shutting down the "organization" due to, for > example, the murder of Allan Berg in Denver makes no more moral or > legal sense than shutting down the Catholics because some Catholics > have bombed abortion clinics. Agreed. Many prominent Catholics have publicly declared that abortion is murder. Applying the same level of integrity as has been applied in criminal trials of technical people, this could be seen as incitement. What is insidious about charging people with organizational involvement is that it bypasses the criminal justice system. The organization itself doesn't stand trial. At the same time the members are not charged with any specfic crime. Thus, the trial can consist of little more than innuendo and the defendant stands a good chance of conviction. It is very close to simple political repression. > The Jews lacked their equivalent of a Reformation, the Lutheran and > Calvinist revolution in thinking which laid the groundwork for the > modern age. And instead of moving on, embracing the future, many of > them retreated to a desert land they thought of as their historic > homeland, never mind that more Polish blood flowed through the veins > of Jews born in Krakow than blood from their ancestors who fled or > otherwise left Palestine 1500 or more years ago. But aren't you the one bringing up the racial purity theory here? I've never known a Jewish person, and I've known many, who spent any time worrying about the genetic purity of their Jewish descent. Presumably they exist somewhere, but the breed is rare. Some Jewish people do seem to have long discussions about "What is a Jew (sic)?", but they do not seem to be genetically driven. I am having a little difficulty understanding what you mean by "embracing the future". This strikes me as a straw man, but perhaps I'm not getting your point. The Jewish community, even the Jewish religious community, does not seem to have had any problem accepting scientific discoveries, which one could describe as "embracing the future". Many Christians, Protestant and otherwise, have had serious problems in this department. For example, the theory of evolution was accepted without a fuss. Even in Jewish religious schools, the theory of evolution is taught. I think the idea behind going to Palestine and founding Israel was to find a way to not be murdered any more. After over 1000 years of abuse ending with 2/3 of the group being killed, it doesn't seem unreasonable that many of the survivors would conclude that it was unsafe to live among Europeans. My guess is that they figured they could just sort of push the Arabs aside and after a bit of fuss, everybody would get used to the idea and they'd have a country where they would have full political rights and even own land without fears of confiscation. Most peoples have done exactly the same thing at some time or other. And, there was already a sizeable Jewish population in Palestine. Do you believe that Jewish activities along these lines are more offensive than similar activities by many other people? If so, do you find them offensive because they are so recent, or is it just the unpleasant fact that American money is contributing to it? > I don't care too much if Arabs and Jews are killing each other, but > I hate like hell to see taxpayer money and armaments shipped to > ZOG-Occupied Palestine to help kill more Arabs and expand ZOG > borders. Agreed. I have better things to do with my money, too. Here's my somewhat uninformed take on the Middle East: Anything the U.S. is doing there is going to be related to oil. Support of Israel gives the U.S. cards to play with the oil producing countries. If the oil producing companies are uncooperative, Israel gets new cool weapons. If they are cooperative, then the U.S. news media start talking about the bad things the Israelis are doing. When the oil producing countries complain, the answer is probably that the Jewish lobby is so powerful that the U.S. has to support the Israelis. I believe that the Jewish lobby is powerful only to the extent that they are allowed to be. If they stood in the way of U.S. policy to any significant extent, they would be curtailed. Israel also plays a useful role for the oil producing governments - they help keep the population unified. A great deal of money flowing into the area does not benefit the populations of the countries there. For example, half of adult male Saudis are illiterate. Keeping those people focused on Israel keeps them from noticing where the money is going. Also, the rulers can accuse detractors of being Israeli spies. I do not think U.S. support for Israel has much to do with post-Holocaust compassion or with the desire to support a democracy in the Middle East or with the Jewish lobby. > And I am offended--but also amused--by the irony of European Jews > recapitulating Hitler's "lebensraum" and "Endlosung" solutions so > soon after WW II ended. Yes, Jacobo Timerman ("Prisoner Without a Name, Cell Without a Number") said the same thing a few years after he fled to Israel from Argentina. He made himself somewhat unpopular by questioning the propriety of the invasion of Lebanon. Some Israelis felt he was ungrateful. Sort of interesting because the original idea was that everybody Jewish could consider themselves Israeli and therefore gratitude would not be in order. (A comparison could be made to the Palestinian situation with respect to their alleged brother Arabs.) Anyway, there is probably a well understood psychological phenomenon at work. Once somebody is abused, they will tend to find somebody else, hopefully subordinate, to mistreat. I've wondered whether this effect isn't related to explain Henry Kissinger's criminality. Kissinger lost two relatives in the Holocaust, but in his political career he associated with and backed people with less than pristine credentials. For example, Nixon had connections to war criminals associated with the Rumanian Iron Guard. The military regimes Kissinger encouraged in South America tended to have people with a certain admiration for the Third Reich. The policies pursued in Southeast Asia bear certain similarities to those of the Nazis. Timerman, incidentally, described himself as Zionist. >> People carp about Tim, but I'd like to see anybody try to do one >> Tim May quality post every day for two weeks. > Thanks, even if you're a Jew-lover. Literally the truth, although not exclusively. ;-)

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(no subject)
by vze2q34d＠verizon.net 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

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To: cypherpunks as a Good Person-Information benefiting you & people around you
by Dr. Carter 30 Aug '01

30 Aug '01

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User-friendly. This book is significantly different and better than the competitive works. Some of its innovative contents may help solve the problems the Western culture cannot. The book's merit and importance have been recognized and praised by many experts, public elected officials and world leaders. The Author, John Newton, holds a Ph.D. from MIT, and does researches at Harvard. His long-term research on "The personal conduct in the human society of the 21st century" results in the book. It is published by Nicer Century World Organization, of which the headquarter location is beside Harvard University and MIT, two leading institutes in new knowledge and literature. There are two kinds of binding for the book: Hardcover (case bound, Smyth sewn; with dust jacket), list price US$19.95; Paperback (perfect bound), list price US$9.95. Both editions are unabridged. 60 lb natural acid-free excellent and healthful papers. 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Of course, you may freely choose other bookstores. If any bookstore is out-of-stock, you may backorder the book there (then the book will be shipped to you once it is available) or go to another bookstore; if you wish to be faster, you may choose to order the book directly from the distributor vie E-mail, mailto: order(a)bookmaster.com As you can see, the book is very cheap, at present in particular. This may be one (a small one) of many reasons that it becomes the best GIFT idea -- "much more value for a much less fee". On the other hand, if you nevertheless can't afford it, you may ask your local libraries and school library to purchase it. The libraries will probably then appreciate your respectable suggestion. This is a great contribution you will make to your neighborhood! "I find it heartening that you are crusading on behalf of this worthy book. It has occupied a space on our shelves for some time now. To have this book in our library is a quiet source of pride to me, the librarian." said Mr. Don Brusha, a highly respectable Librarian, Avon Park Library, Avon Park, Florida, USA, in a letter to me regarding the book. Please forward this e-mail to people you know -- children, friends, relatives, classmates, students, parents, teachers, ..., because they will be benefited, too. This is wonderful kindness you provide them! cypherpunks, best wishes to you! Sincerely yours, Tom Carter, Ph.D. President, Nicer Century World Organization Massachusetts USA (Nicer Century World Organization is an educational, non-profit, non-partisan organization; it endeavors to make the 21st century nicer than ever before. To accomplish its mission, Nicer Century World Organization is proud to introduce the book.)

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