July 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Information You Requested from Microsoft.com
by 1support＠microsoft.com 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THIS E-MAIL. THIS E-MAIL IS NOT MONITORED. Welcome to Microsoft Online ID secure Internet environment! Below is your membership information. Please keep this confirmation mail as a record of your password. Consider this information confidential and treat accordingly. Your Microsoft Online ID Password is: cypherpunks A Microsoft Online ID provides access to various Microsoft secured programs. Please check the Frequently Asked Questions and/or Help page of the program you are accessing for questions. Sincerely, Microsoft Online ID Administrator

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Re: Acts of God and Controlled De-Orbitings
by Jim Windle 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:00:27 Tim May wrote: > >Five dozen Iridium satellites were on the verge of being de-orbited when >a buyer could not be found. > Yes they were. I think Iridium is something of a special case. It was in bankruptcy and any damage claim would probably have been classified as a general unsecured claim and not likely to recover anything. The ability to go after Motorola is limited. Some of the subordinated debt still trades, in the low single digits last time I checked, on the theory they may get a recovery from Motorola in a lawsuit. Also to preserve the value of the estate, or in this case not to further increase expenses a judge could overrule an insurance company objection. I didn't follow the Iridium proceeding that closely so I don't remember the details. >(Was this just jive? Possibly, but plans were underway and retro-rocket >firing sequences were ready to go. Had the U.S.G. not arranged a deal to >keep the system in operation for military/embassy/spook purposes, I >expect the de-orbiting would have happened.) > >The "act of God" argument is a weak one, anyway. Had Motorola and the >other Iridium partners simply said "We'll trust in God and just let them >fall where they may," I expect they would have been hit with lawsuits as >bits of wreckage made it to the ground. > I recently read, and will look for the citiation, a proposal for an extendable tether which would be used to de-orbit satellites after their maneuvering fuel was used up. Apparently the insurance companies have shot it down for the "act of god" reason. The satellite operators could apparently use a controlled burn to bring it down with enough safety margin for some insurance companies to be comfortable but the fuel requirements are apparently substantial and appreciably shorten the satellite's life. Hence they choose to leave them up as junk rather than incur the costs necessary to bring them down in a fashion acceptable to the insurer who are on the hook if a controlled de-orbit hits something. Obviously in the case of Iridium the remaining life of the satellites was not a valuable asset until the buyer came forward. >A controlled de-orbiting over the Pacific was seen by them as the wiser >choice. > >--TIm May > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

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lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
by Dynamite Bob 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Get a load of this lawyer's physics: "The property in question here is geostationary," said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary satellites sit above the equator in a fixed position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So the satellites we're talking about here are not movable property." http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la-000056553jul10.story?coll=la%2Dn…

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Re: Meatspace,
by Faustine 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Jim wrote: >Ghandi. Womens Sufferage (US). Jim Crow Laws (US). Vietnam. Civil Rights >in the 60's. >The point being, there are plenty of historical precidence where this sort >of behaviour has led directly to the change desired by the protestors >against a much better armed and entrenched foe. It depends on which sort of behavior you mean--none of these causes believed in violence at all! Back in the day, anarchists used to assasinate people. What came of it? The Sacco and Vanzetti case. Here's an uncomforably familiar bit on that--just fill in new details and it's as contemporary as ever: "The arrest of Sacco and Vanzetti coincided with the period of the most intense political repression in American history, the "Red Scare" 1919-20. The police trap they had fallen into had been set for a comrade of theirs, suspected primarily because he was a foreign-born radical. While neither Sacco nor Vanzetti had any previous criminal record, they were long recognized by the authorities and their communities as anarchist militants who had been extensively involved in labor strikes, political agitation, and antiwar propaganda and who had had several serious confrontations with the law. They were also known to be dedicated supporters of Luigi Galleani's Italian-language journal Cronaca Sovversiva, the most influential anarchist journal in America, feared by the authorities for its militancy and its acceptance of revolutionary violence... During this period the government's acts of repression, often illegal, were met in turn by the anarchists' attempts to incite social revolution, and at times by retaliatory violence; the authorities and Cronaca were pitted against each other in a bitter social struggle just short of open warfare. A former editor of Cronaca was strongly suspected of having blown himself up during an attentat on Attorney General Palmer's home in Washington, D.C. on June 2, 1919, an act that led Congress to vote funds for anti-radical investigations and launch the career of J. Edgar Hoover as the director of the General Intelligence Division in the Department of Justice. The Sacco- Vanzetti case would become one of his first major responsibilities. In 1920, as the Italian anarchist movement was trying to regroup, Andrea Salsedo, a comrade of Sacco and Vanzetti, was detained and, while in custody of the Department of Justice, hurled to his death. On the night of their arrest, authorities found in Sacco's pocket a draft of a handbill for an anarchist meeting that featured Vanzetti as the main speaker. In this treacherous atmosphere, when initial questioning by the police focused on their radical activities and not on the specifics of the Braintree crime, the two men lied in response. These falsehoods created a "consciousness of guilt" in the minds of the authorities, but the implications of that phrase soon became a central issue in the Sacco-Vanzetti case: Did the lies of the two men signify criminal involvement in the Braintree murder and robbery, as the authorities claimed, or did they signify an understandable attempt to conceal their radicalism and protect their friends during a time of national hysteria concerning foreign-born radicals, as their supporters were to claim?" Ouch. There's a real lesson there! Besides, I think a lot of the success of the symbolic protests you mentioned were actually a logical result of what was going on behind the scenes--sure, they protests functioned as a PR-strategic push, but without very intelligent and dedicated people interfacing with the power structure, nothing ever would have happened at all. You remember the people who conceptualized, organized and signed the treaty, not the ones who threw the bombs. Elizabeth Cady Stanton didn't *need* the Pankhursts, if you get my drift. >Highly heirarchial defence mechanisms, such as you tout as invincible, >work just fine when faced with that sort of competition. When faced with a >more distributed and idealistic confrontation they eventualy fail. Maybe, but keep in mind asymmetry and idealism don't always go together. Also, define "idealistic". For instance, Mao appealed to the idealism of his followers, but his tactics were as hardcore as they come. And what happens when a repressive state starts to adopt asymmetric strategies to overcome asymmetric threats? That's the way it's moving, slowly but surely... >The question is not one of tactics, but of spirits. Hm. I still think you need both. >Sun-Tzu should be added to your summer reading list. Yep, it's certainly worth another look. Meanwhile here's a relevant quote of his I do remember: "The worst policy is to attack cities. Attack cities only when there is no alternative." So there you have it... ;) ~Faustine.

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Re: Meatspace,
by Faustine 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

somebody behind a remailer wrote: >And IMHO the best way to achieve anonymity in meatspace? A great place to >start would be by not deliberately engaging in "possibly illegal operations >on the street in an environment full of police". You're doomed before you >ever get started. But I could be wrong. Don't say I didn't tell you so. > Bitch, you really are a pig, aren't you? Oh, don't protest, don't >be an activist, that's much too dangerous, you don't stand a chance >they'll get you, blah, blah, blah. Just a little Tokyo Rose for the >cyberage. Nonsense, that's not what I said at all. I raised some serious issues--and all ad-hominem attacks aside, here are a few more for anyone who feels up for it: Can you see a fundamental difference between activism/protest/resistance that makes a difference and "illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police"? What's the point of putting yourself into a situation where you have no chance of accomplishing anything besides getting arrested(or killed)and making some sort of symbolic statement--that doesn't fundamentally affect a single soul beyond whoever gets their property damaged? Why does pointing out the myriad ways it's possible for unarmed people to get swatted like flies by provoking people with superior gear and training automatically mean one in any way identifies with the swatters? Do you really think being an idealist should preclude you from reasoning like a realist? Who's more likely to make a difference at the WTO: a) someone outside, throwing golf balls at the building b) someone inside, presenting compelling arguments to the assembly and individual delegates Can't you think of a better way to use your skills and talents than "fucking shit up" and getting arrested? Can't you even think of a better way to get across your message? I can, lots of people here can. But then, it could just be you're trying to troll me from behing that anonymous remailer of yours. agent provocateur (azhang provocater): "an agent employed to induce or incite a suspected person or group to commit an incriminating act." If you're not one, it's better than even money that you didn't know that the idea of the agent provocateur was invented by Czarist Russia over 100 years ago to stir the Serbs in the Balkans to a rebellion against the Turks, which Russia could use as a pretext to declare war. But its use was most prominent in combating the Socialists during the Russian Revolution of 1905. The Czars targeted young students for the operation of the "agents provocateurs" because students were deemed more impressionable and emotional. At one point 20 percent of all young Russian students were reported to be paid undercover agents who were to organize anti-government demonstrations and then lead the demonstrators straight into the fire of the Czarist police. Think about it. Given that, if you can't even keep a cool head posting to a message board, then you really ARE doomed. ~Faustine.

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Condit cracks
by George＠Orwellian.Org 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Heh-heh-heh. Condit has admitted to fucking Levy again and again to the DC police and the FBI. But that she was missing taking only her keys makes it seem like someone in her building killed her.

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Descubra el futuro de la publicidad hoy...
by cypherpunks＠toad.com 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

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RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
by Sandy Sandfort 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Peter Trei wrote: > Expatriate US citizens have to pay > income tax on foreign earned income > to the US...If you don't pay up, > they might not be able to extradite > you if you're now a foreigner, but > they'll go after your assets in the > US, or arrest you if you set foot > on US soil. > > (13 years as an expatriate leads to > some specialized knowledge :-) Maybe, but you got part of that wrong. (a) For expatiate US persons, the first $78,000 (or there about; they keep upping the amount) of income is exempt. (b) If you file, but do not pay, they can grab US assets, but they cannot extradite you nor arrest you if you come back, because no crime has been committed. Failure to file is a crime; failure to pay is a civil matter. S a n d y

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by meganrenner22＠yahoo.com 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

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Crypto hardware (fwd)
by Jim Choate 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Please reply to Mr. Crispin. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:28:08 -0700 From: Kent Crispin <kent(a)songbird.com> To: cryptography(a)wasabisystems.com Subject: Crypto hardware A couple of years ago at the RSA conference one of the vendors was exhibiting a tamperproof that would keep a secret key and perform encryptions/signatures using the key. Since the key never left the box, in theory security reduced to physical security around the box. The intended use of the box was as a master for a CA. I thought the vendor was GTE, but I didn't find anything definitive on their site. Does this description trigger any recollection? Are there similar devices on the market from other sources? -- Kent Crispin "Be good, and you will be kent(a)songbird.com lonesome." -- Mark Twain --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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