July 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: FC: More on Feds, Raelian cloning lab, and trying to stifle research
by Declan McCullagh 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

I encourage folks on this mini-discussion thread to copy cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net. I'm taking the liberty of adding it since by copying politech, Nat seemed to intend his message for general distribution. -Declan At 09:59 PM 7/2/01 -0400, Nat wrote: > > No, it's not. The risk in cloning is that of creating a human being with > > serious genetic defects, not of injuring existing human beings. This is > > identical to the risk in "permitting" people with genetic defects to > > procreate. I'm sure you oppose forced sterilization, which means you > > think the risk is worth it in one case, and not the other -- for a > > variety of reasons, perhaps good ones -- but please don't demagogue. > >How am I being a demagogue? Tim framed this as an issue of scientific >research. Human cloning has yet to be accomplished; any attempts >(especially on the scale the Raelians seem to be after) at this date will >involve much trial and error (and dead babies). That's entirely different >from issues of procreation. It'd be better addressed in this case as one >of religious freedom (though I doubt they'd be on stronger ground there >either). Perhaps in 20 years this will not be an issue, but right now >it's still medical testing on humans. > >I refer you to this: >Jaenisch, R, and I. Wilmut. Science, Vol. 291, Issue 5513, 2552-2552, >March 30, 2001 >Ian Wilmut is the creator of Dolly, FYI. > >Lastly, as the authors cited point out, it doesn't seem to be possible to >tell whether a viable infant cloned mammal will survive till adulthood (in >good health). Genetically diseased parents, on the other hand, can have >the fetus tested for this disease- and aborted, if necessary. At any >rate, at least they know what they're facing. > >-Nat

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RE: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces--
by Sean Roach 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Can the program be thrown off with masks? If so, how about making some of those advertisement fans with the pictures of random people wanted for parking tickets on them, then walk through that end of town. Possibly better yet would be fliers, balloons, and bumper stickers. These could be given away to people in areas that don't particulary trust the local police anyway, or simply applied to cars of people who frequent areas such as the employee parking of the local court house. Either could be distributed to bars. Can the things be fooled by using black markers to add shadows where there should be none? Will painted on faces become the new rage in Tampa? I can just see people wearing "war paint", some to avoid the cameras, the rest because it's fashionable. At 09:26 PM 7/2/2001 -0400, George(a)Orwellian.Org wrote: >Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras >with paintball guns. > >---- > >http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor ># ># Orwell wrote 1984 warning for Britain. It is truly spooky how close he ># was to the truth, though a bit late in the time frame. ># ># No one expected it to apply, too, to America. Yet, here it is. It is ># far more sinister than people realize. As one reader already mentioned ># in one thread: " this can readily be used for people carrying guns." ># That, and the identification of members of the NRA, JPFO, GOA, North ># Caucus, CCOPS, RKBA, and instant notification of the street cop in the ># vicinity, and we have a far more THOROUGH Tyranny than even the North ># Caucus envisioned when it began warning the people and government some ># years ago. ># ># Our question, this time: "how accurate are paint guns? Seriously. ># Could a ># good shot peg these cameras from the street below?" We have similar ># cameras ># in a towns in Georgia, watching traffic for people running stop ># lights. How long before those cameras are silently hooked into this ># network for face recognition? ># ># It's time for civil disobedience. ># 1) Arm yourselves in anticipation of a governmental advance on your ># firearms. ># 2) Get paint gun specialists to try these cameras. ># 3) WARN the governments, local, state and national, that we won't stay ># put ># for such tyranny as they envision. ># Our warning: ># http://www.geocities.com/north_caucus >[ an extremely alarmed over gun rights site ] ># ># Ben Waldo ># North Caucus of America ># Florida Section

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RE: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces--
by George＠Orwellian.Org 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Someone is Usenet wants to hassle the cameras with paintball guns. ---- http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor # # Orwell wrote 1984 warning for Britain. It is truly spooky how close he # was to the truth, though a bit late in the time frame. # # No one expected it to apply, too, to America. Yet, here it is. It is # far more sinister than people realize. As one reader already mentioned # in one thread: " this can readily be used for people carrying guns." # That, and the identification of members of the NRA, JPFO, GOA, North # Caucus, CCOPS, RKBA, and instant notification of the street cop in the # vicinity, and we have a far more THOROUGH Tyranny than even the North # Caucus envisioned when it began warning the people and government some # years ago. # # Our question, this time: "how accurate are paint guns? Seriously. # Could a # good shot peg these cameras from the street below?" We have similar # cameras # in a towns in Georgia, watching traffic for people running stop # lights. How long before those cameras are silently hooked into this # network for face recognition? # # It's time for civil disobedience. # 1) Arm yourselves in anticipation of a governmental advance on your # firearms. # 2) Get paint gun specialists to try these cameras. # 3) WARN the governments, local, state and national, that we won't stay # put # for such tyranny as they envision. # Our warning: # http://www.geocities.com/north_caucus [ an extremely alarmed over gun rights site ] # # Ben Waldo # North Caucus of America # Florida Section

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RE: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces--
by Aimee Farr 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Choate: > > Visionic's FaceIt was just successfully tested on ViA's > wearable computer. > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > I asked this question elsewhere a few days ago... > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > Biometric data is electronic code that is separate and distinct from > > personal information. > > > > [ ] T > > [ ] F > > > > Explain your answer: > > Neither. The wording of the question indicates a deep ignorance of data > conversion and data set analysis. I suggest a good study course in A/D > data conversion techniques as well as statistical correlation analysis. Tell http://www.ibia.org/privacy.htm that. > "Biometric Data" is the conversion of analog parameters converted to > digital data and stored. It is used under the premise that by applying yet > another algorithm (as opposed to the data conversion mechanism) the 1-to-1 > correspondance between data set and individual can be proven. See? It worked on Choate. Yeah, I know... ~Aimee

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Zero Intelligence policy strikes again
by George＠Orwellian.Org 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

[snipped] http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2001/departments/2001_06_28/upfront_1.html # # "This was leading up to the Columbine time," Young said, referring to # April 20, the two-year anniversary of the Colorado shooting. "So any # type of rumor, any kinds of threats of joking, jestering or kidding, we # were following up on. This was one of those cases. If the kid makes any # type of threat with a weapon, and he has access, whether (it) belongs to # the parent in the home or not, they are automatically takeninto # custody." # # School police also found in Joseph K.'s locker and backpack more # "evidence:" a class report he'd been writing about the Holocaust, he'd # written for another class, answering the question: What's the biggest # problem facing schools today? Joseph K.'s essay focused on school # violence. # # KANGAROO COURT # # During a family court hearing the next day, Joseph K. and his # grandparents were only told that the teen was being charged with # "harassment." They received no paperwork detailing what prompted the # charges: They weren't even allowed to have a copy of the paper that # listed "harassment" as the charge. ---- Sorry about any dup emails, that'll be fixed soon.

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by plgn2001＠yahoo.com 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

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RE: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces--
by George＠Orwellian.Org 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

So, how extensive is the database? Just locals? If the person was never arrested, do they use DMV photos? http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2001/June/30/ybor # # YBOR CAMERA FOLLOW UP # # Monday, July 2, 2001 In a follow up to a story we brought you # about new surveillance cameras in Ybor City, Bay News 9 would # like to apologize for an error in the on-line script. # # Police, using pole-mounted, remotely-controlled surveillance # cameras, can now scan crowds of people and feed their digital # images into a databank with the purpose of finding a match on # anyone with an outstanding arrest warrant. # # In our original report, Bay News 9 inaccurately reported that # the Visionics Corporation maintained the database. # # According to the company, the database is maintained by the # Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office and Tampa Police Department # and only contains images of those wanted on outstanding warrants. # # We apologize and regret the error. ---- Declan, how did you find the Tampa story?

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CNN: Tampa using cameras to scan for wanted faces
by Anonymous 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Tampa is using high-tech security cameras to scan the city's streets for people wanted for crimes, a law enforcement tactic that some liken to Big Brother. [...] http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/07/02/high.tech.security.ap/index.html

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02 Jul '01

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CNN.com - Milosevic to face U.N. court alone - July 2, 2001
by Jim Choate 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/02/milosevic.trial/index.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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