November 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Business Rights and Free Markets
by Jim Choate 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

Tim (and other C-A-C-L proponents) have opined that a 'business' has the 'right' to refuse service to anyone for any reason. This is clearly contrary to both the concept of 'rights' and 'free market' (and is diametricaly opposed to what C-A-C-L proponents claim(!) to want). Things don't have rights. A business is a thing. It is a mechanism whereby one or more people get from here to there. It is analgous to a bicycle and moving from point A to point B. While the people riding the bike clearly have a right to get from A to B by any mechanism that doesn't interfere with others it is a long slide into insanity to then say the bike has equivalent 'rights'. A business can refuse to serve anyone they desire for any reason, but the market such a business operates in is not(!!!) a free market by any definition that folks like von Mises or Hayek would recognize as such. Now C-A-C-L proponents claim (of which this is just another example of their hypocrisy or ignorance - take your pick [1]) that they want to create a free market that is universal in all human activity. Clearly this isn't possible operating under Tim and his supporters particular brand of 'free' which is nothing more than 'freedom for me, not for thee'. A business has the RESPONSIBILITY to refuse service to anyone which threatens that business' operations. They also have a responsibility to make that reaction as minimaly invasive as possible in all cases, no exceptions. There is no "..., but..." in free market or American democracy. [1] Never ascribe to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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More Creeping Public School Fascism
by Eric Cordian 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

Here's the latest outrage from our country's government-run schools. Not only do school officials presume to stick their noses into what kids do on their own free time, away from school, but they think they can use lie detectors to pry into kids' private lives. Notice the collusion between the pigs and the school administrators. Pigs make lists of people, none of whom have been charged with any crime, and turn them over to school administrators, who have the power to take action with no requirement of fairness or due process. Note that nothing can be done about this unless a parent files a complaint. Kids don't have any rights in this country, except through parental proxy, and apparently all the parents in this town have the school superintendent's balls slapping against their chins. Schools got away with "Zero Tolerance" using a small number of school shootings as a pretense. Now we'll see what they can get away with using their increased FUD powers under the War on Terrorism(tm). These administrators need to be gutted and their heads posted in public view as a warning to others. ----- DUNLAP, Ill. -- One by one, the subjects were led into a room and hooked up to a polygraph machine. The purpose: to determine whether the teen-agers violated Dunlap High School's code of conduct by attending a party where alcohol was consumed. Seven of the 10 students who submitted to the lie detector exams -- all of them football players -- flunked the questioning last month and were barred from competing in the first round of the state playoffs. Some of their parents wept when they learned their children had lied to them. Dunlap High went to extraordinary lengths to get to the bottom of what was otherwise a routine case of teen-agers getting into trouble. School Superintendent Bill Collier said it was the right thing to do to sort the guilty from the innocent: "It may look bad, it may sound bad, but it's the fairest way." The investigation began after police broke up a party Oct. 6. Nobody was arrested, but officers took down the names of everyone present and traced the registration of all cars parked there. Their list of 15 athletes was turned over to school officials. Three students admitted guilt when confronted. But many others claimed that they had left the party as soon as they realized alcohol was present. So school officials proposed the polygraphs. Two students were suspended from the team after refusing to take the test, and seven more were suspended after flunking. Collier pointed out that three students were cleared who might otherwise have been punished. "For these three kids, this worked exactly the way it is supposed to work," he said. Dunlap High went on to lose the Oct. 27 playoff game 28-7. Mike Griffith, a policy analyst for the Education Commission of the States in Denver, said he has never heard of a school using polygraphs in such a way, and he called it an extreme measure. "But in the end," he said, "if the parents don't file a complaint and the school district is satisfied, it's a done deal." Matt Jones, an attorney who represented the students who took the polygraphs and their parents, said a lawsuit is unlikely, but parents may try to pressure the school board into changing its policy regarding parties. The students' names were not released by the school or Jones. Jones said the suspended players -- most of them starters -- had greater concerns than the outcome of the game. "Part of the disappointment is the public scrutiny and having their parents disappointed in them," the lawyer said. "With most of them, it's not about their participation but because they let down their team." Some in this central Illinois town of about 1,000 people 12 miles north Peoria have been openly critical of school officials. "You would think they have better things to do," said Mark Wade, a 1979 Dunlap High graduate. Wade said the drinking policy existed when he was in high school, and athletes and others were sometimes questioned about their weekend activities. He said students sometimes lied, and their answers were accepted; nobody gave them a polygraph. "That wouldn't have washed. The parents wouldn't have stood for it," he said. Collier and Jones said that before each polygraph session, held at the school board's offices, the students and their parents were taken aside. The students were asked to describe their actions that night. Before the examinations began, the parents were asked to leave to eliminate distractions. Afterward, the polygraph examiner went over results with the students and their parents. Collier described the scene as sad, with some parents shedding tears as they realized their children had lied to them and the school. The superintendent said getting the truth was more important than a football playoff game. "I do know kids and adults can't continue to tell lies," he said. "Parents need to do more communicating with their kids on real-life issues and find out what they're doing on weekends." -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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Uncle Sam Wants You...To think what he manipulates you into thinking.
by Matthew Gaylor 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

<http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0111/03/cg.00.html> Note from Matthew Gaylor: An ongoing interest of mine is the use of propaganda to shape public perceptions. CNN's Capital Gang Bob Novak has a fascinating observation that fewer Americans joined the US military in Sept. 2001 than did in Sept. 2000. It may prove too difficult not getting swept into the tsunami surge of patriotic war fever- But it is vital that we recognize governmental media manipulation when it occurs- And let me tell you it happens often. And Margaret Carlson, the syndicated columnist, whom I seldom agree with, is on target this time with a choice observation on Pat Robertson. Interesting Outrages Via CNN's Capital Gang 11-03-01: >SHIELDS: And now for the "Outrage of the Week." In the days >following the September 11 massacre of civilians, the airwaves and >the newspapers repeatedly told us of military recruitment centers >filled with young Americans eager and ready to join the Army, the >Navy, Air Force and the Marine Corps. Not for the first time, the >press had it wrong. In fact, with the nation under attack and the >country's economy in recession, fewer Americans volunteered to join >the United States military in September of 2001 than did one year >earlier in September 2000 -- Bob Novak. >CARLSON: Yes. Recently, Pat Robertson told viewers, quote, "we have >not yet seen the Lord's judgment on America." I wonder what the Lord >would think of Robertson's Freedom Gold company, partly owned by >Liberia's President Charles Taylor. Besides torturing and gang >raping anyone who criticizes his corrupt regime, Taylor has armed >the Sierra Leone rebels, who in 1999 alone reaped some $75 million >from diamond sales to Osama bin Laden. Robertson's aide told the >"Post's" Colby King that he was just trying to spur economic >activity and spread the gospel. What gospel would that be? Regards, Matt- ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

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Star Wars
by info＠giganetstore.com 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

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RE: DEA raid on med marij in Hollywood
by Trei, Peter 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

> Sampo Syreeni[SMTP:decoy@iki.fi] > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > >Unable to find Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) or dismantle al Qaeda, > >the Bush administration has attacked an easier target the 960 mostly > >AIDS (news - web sites) and cancer patients of the Los Angeles Cannabis > >Resource Center. [...] > Even if it isn't such a pivotal point when the Rule of Law is concerned, > I'm wondering what kind of insolent, stupid, heartless bastrards these > people are? Even if there was no immediate medical reason for cannabis > use, it shouldn't be such a big deal if people with AIDS or cancer have a > little bit of fun once in a while. I mean fer-crying-out-loud, who on > God's green Earth is going to follow through with it if you set > AIDS/cancer as a precondition to legally getting high? > "A Puritan is someone who is desperately afraid that, somewhere, someone might be having a good time." - H.L. Mencken Peter Trei

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DEA raid on med marij in Hollywood
by Major Variola (ret) 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

Thursday November 01 08:00 PM EST The Other War By Michael Simmons LA Weekly Writer Unable to find Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) or dismantle al Qaeda, the Bush administration has attacked an easier target the 960 mostly AIDS (news - web sites) and cancer patients of the Los Angeles Cannabis Resource Center. Thirty agents from the federal Drug Enforcement Administration raided the West Hollywood center last Thursday. They detained eight patient/staffers for six hours and seized 400 plants, bagged marijuana and brownies, patient and doctors records, computers, and growing equipment. The effect on peoples health will be devastating, said center president Scott Imler, who has epilepsy. I dont understand why America is declaring war on its own. No arrests were made. The center remains open, but the dispensary is closed, forcing members onto the black market to receive their medicine. The basis for the raid is the long-standing state-vs.federal government dispute over who has say over drug laws. In 1996, California voters approved Proposition 215, which gave patients the right to possess medical marijuana. The federal government has refused to recognize the law in California and eight other states and Washington, D.C., which have passed similar medical-marijuana measures. Last May, the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) ruled against the reopening of an Oakland club, a decision cited in last weeks search warrant. The centers leadership has yet to announce its legal strategy, or if it will try to restore its operation, which serves 960 members, 80 percent of whom have AIDS and use marijuana to combat wasting syndrome and the nausea from multiple medications. Another 10 percent have cancer, for which cannabis is a time-honored treatment during chemotherapy. The remainder suffer from assorted ailments, including glaucoma and multiple sclerosis. The center opened in 1996 with the help of the West Hollywood City Council and the L.A. County Sheriffs Department. I stand up in support of what Scott has been doing, Sheriff Lee Baca told the Weekly in 1999. Hes done an excellent job. The West Hollywood City Council held a news conference denouncing the raid. Asked West Hollywood Sheriffs Station Captain Lynda Castro: Wheres the sensitivity level? The centers supporters say the raid points up the folly of Americas drug war, and its lack of compassion. Other countries are setting more progressive examples. Four months ago, Canada became the first country to legalize medical marijuana. The Dutch, whove already decriminalized recreational use, announced this month that cannabis will be available by prescription. And the British are reclassifying pot in their least restrictive class with antidepressants and steroids. While the rest of the world moves steadily into the 21st century, the Bush administration is dragging its knuckles and America back into the Dark Ages, said Imler. A candlelight vigil will be held across the street from the center, on the corner of Santa Monica Boulevard and Gardner Street, at 5 p.m. Tuesday, November 6, the fifth anniversary of the passage of Proposition 215. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/laweekly/20011101/lo/29651_1.html ---- It would be a shame if these feds got cancer. Got Dioxin?

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Re: FW: Damn ! I wish I'd though ot fhis myself
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

"Karsten M. Self" <kmself(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote : >on Sun, Nov 04, 2001 at 02:39:52PM -0800, Sandy Sandfort >(sandfort(a)mindspring.com) wrote: >> C'punks, >> >> Friend of mine sent me this. I like the poetic justice of it. > >Terminal velocity of dust is pretty low. > >Reports are that the bulk of the WTC debris are same. There are >structural components from the base of the towers, and debris from >neigboring buildings, which are more substantial. > All that dust might give 'em silicosis. >From the news footage it looks to me like Afghanistan is made of dust and rubble - why waste all that fuel? Just bury them in their own wreckage. >Frankly, a modicum of HE attached to a guided device is more effective >ordinance. > >There's a poetic sense to this, but not much military practicality. > Humor - it lightens the mood, makes the days go by quickly. Mike

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Re: American Schools Need Flattening Too
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

Eric Cordian <emc(a)artifact.psychedelic.net> wrote : > >Students in AmeriKKKan government-run schools have never had much freedom >of speech, since the courts have ruled that all administrators have to do >is mumble something about the "disruption" of the (laugh) "educational >process" and civil rights conveniently evaporate. > Let's see, agreeing by waving the flag is OK but disagreeing is forbidden. Just garden variety fascism. How many kids were suspended for the political speech that is wearing flags? >Still, there's something annoying when a high school student isn't allowed >to publicly question the War in Afghanistan. Contrast this with the >Vietnam War, before the police state had been racheted up to its current >degree of tightness. > Annoying is an weak adjective to describe training our children to accept censorship. They're a bunch of goddamned authoritarian shitheads. People who think that way would be perfect little middle managers in a Hitlerian Germany or the Cold War USSR. They deserve no place here. >Asscruft now wants life sentences for anyone yelling "Anthrax" in a public >place, or sprinkling talcum powder on their friends. "Zero Tolerance" >moves from the classroom to the rest of society. > Is that "cruft" or "crust" or would just plain dingleberry do? Or Himmler? >In other news, we have received credible information from several usually >reliable sources that some unspecified person or group might commit an >unspecified terrorist act against an unspecified target in the near but >unspecified future. We urge everyone to be on their highest alert, and >ignore anything that sounds like screaming children being cluster bombed. > I think that the dynamic in operation here is that maintaining the fear level will : 1) allow the USA PATRIOT machinery implementation to proceed as planned 2) delay legal assaults against the USA PATRIOT act As long as the fear levels are kept high, the "you're either with AMERICA or against it" cry can be used to protect the power grab. The longer the power grab persists the more difficult it will be to dismantle in the future. I'm not quite as convinced as Tim that the country is 100% fucked but we're sure as hell past the halfway point and running at full throttle. Undermining or Suspending All Protections Against Total Reversion Into Overwhelming Tyranny Mike

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Re: Maine National Guard bars Green Party leader from flying
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

What a shocker - put fascists in all three branches of government and we're seeing fascism practiced in our streets at the first opportunity. Maybe we have nothing better to offer, maybe it's just the best we can do with our atrophied principles.

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Freeman Dyson on Martyr Airlines
by Major Variola (ret) 05 Nov '01

05 Nov '01

Recalling his boyhood in London, [Freeman] Dyson recounts how during the Blitz he lay in bed rejoicing in the delicious sound of buildings falling down. To the budding physicist and ardent anti-colonialist he then was, the imminent danger to his own person was nothing compared to the joy of hearing the great British Empire audibly crumbling. In one of the more frank commentaries I have read on the attacks anywhere, Dyson tells us that he can easily imagine the state of mind of the young men who so resolutely smashed those planes into the buildings. Almost I could have been one of them myself. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/laweekly/20011101/lo/29656_1.html

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