September 2000 - cypherpunks-legacy

CDR: BOUNCE cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com: Admin request of type /\b uns\w*b/i at line 8 (fwd)
by Jim Choate 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

With suitable edits... ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:58:05 -0500 From: owner-cypherpunks(a)ssz.com To: owner-cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com: Admin request of type /\b uns\w*b/i at line 8 >From owner-cypherpunks(a)ssz.com Tue Sep 19 12:57:57 2000 Received: from mail3.ccs.bbk.ac.uk (mail1.ccs.bbk.ac.uk [193.61.22.6]) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27738 for <cypherpunks(a)ssz.com>; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:57:55 -0500 Received: from ccs.bbk.ac.uk (actually host ccs22.ccs.bbk.ac.uk) by mail3.ccs.bbk.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer) with ESMTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:34:23 +0100 Message-ID: <39C7A37E.BFA72D01(a)ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:33:50 +0100 From: Ken Brown <k.brown(a)ccs.bbk.ac.uk> Reply-To: k.brown(a)ccs.bbk.ac.uk Organization: Birkbeck College Central Computing Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com CC: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask.. References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000918170717.00b339e8(a)mail.megapathdsl.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20000919075147.00b4d490(a)mail.megapathdsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Asymmetric wrote: > >>That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send > >>messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. [...snip...] > The benefits of having the list open to u nsubscribed postings seem far > outweighed by the cost in time spent by everyone filtering messages and > server resources that could be better spent running dnetc if nothing else > ;). It's just auxiliary that I've never seen an anonymous post to the list > in the past when I subscribed, nor more recently since I > resubscribed. Undoubtedly some smartass will send an anonymous message to > the list now just to say "see!" [...snip...] Listen carefully. I will say this only once. All you say is true. Moderated and closed lists are good ideas. Such good ideas that nearly every mailing list in the world is closed and moderated. But maybe, just maybe, there is some reason for an open, unmoderated list. Just one in the whole world. Or maybe there are some loonies who for motives of their own (that you might or might not approve of, as if they cared), wish to read such a list. This is that list. These are those loonies. If you don't like it, or them, you can join another list. No-ones stopping you. You can even make your own list if you want. It's like someone visits a farm and complains that the place is full of animals... or a farmer visits the city and moans about all those houses... > What about just creating another list (closed-posting) and then just > allowing people to choose which to subscribe to? Obviously, the > open-posting list would be subscribed to the closed posting list, but not > the other way around.. so at the risk of missing the massively important > anonymous message that has yet to be sent, I could eliminate some of this spam? Another good suggestion. So good I think someone made it back in about 1995 (or was it 1997?). Feel free to create such a list yourself, if you want another one.

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CDR: Excerpt of Mark Summerfield's 'Letter from 2020'
by Trei, Peter 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

http://www.osOpinion.com/Opinions/MarkSummerfield/MarkSummerfield3.html [...] I try to remember what it was like when I was a kid but it's really difficult; the world has changed so much since then. I found a paper book the other day that described the rise and fall of something called the "Internet". It started out with people putting up links on computers so that they could follow the link and read things on other computers for free. After it got to be popular, companies started to create machines with lots of links that you could search to find things of interest. But someone put up a link to something illegal and got sued and had their machine shut down. This happened a few times and people started to take the links off their machines. The search engine companies were the first to go and without them, you couldn't find anything. Eventually no one put up links anymore because the legal risk was too great. The important thing is that it reduced terrorism. I'm not sure how it could have worked anyway. Anything I write on my computer or any music I create gets stored by Word.NET and Music.NET in encrypted formats to protect my privacy. No one but me, Microsoft.NET and the National Corporation can read or hear my stuff even if they could link to it. I shouldn't admit it, but sometimes I go to certain places and speak to the subversives. I know its wrong but their warped views on things have some kind of morbid fascination. For example, I spoke to someone who claimed to be a historian the other day. She had courage all right, admitting to an illegal activity like that. I hadn't understood why it was illegal until she explained. History, she told me, gives you context. You can compare today with some time in the past; ask questions like, "are people better off", "look at the different forms of doing business", "compare corporate records or the rights of citizens" (I think she meant employees). [...]

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CDR: Re: -C-P- Re: would it be so much to ask..
by Anonymous 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Asymmetric wrote: > At 10:54 09/19/2000 +0200, harald(a)f00.nu wrote: > >At 17:08 2000-09-18 -0400, you wrote: > >>That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send > >>messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. > > > >I suppose you know why we donŽt have that (the remailing issue). But I > >kinda have another idea. Just start every subject line with eg -C-P- like > >I did now, then it would be really easy to filter all the mail. > > Last I checked the remailers allowed return mail to be sent through them, > to the owner of the anonymous account.. isn't that the point? It's easy You checked quite a long time ago. Return mail isn't possible with Type 1 or Type 2 remailers. > enough to forge the email header that I can't believe they exist just to > totally isolate anyone from the responses.. how would someone using a > remailer even join the list (to receive messages) if that was the point? You use a remailer to post to the list, not to read it. > The only part where I see this being useful is if somebody has some kind of > anonymous announcement to make, where they don't intend to join the list. Huh? > The benefits of having the list open to unsubscribed postings seem far > outweighed by the cost in time spent by everyone filtering messages and > server resources that could be better spent running dnetc if nothing else > ;). It's just auxiliary that I've never seen an anonymous post to the list > in the past when I subscribed, nor more recently since I > resubscribed. Undoubtedly some smartass will send an anonymous message to > the list now just to say "see!" :P Well, if you would stop using the toad.com address, you might have less spam. > There has to be some way around this that will still preserve anonymity, > although one doesn't seem readily apparent unless the anonymous party > subscribes under their pseudonym. pseudonymity != anonymity. > What about just creating another list (closed-posting) and then just > allowing people to choose which to subscribe to? Obviously, the > open-posting list would be subscribed to the closed posting list, but not > the other way around.. so at the risk of missing the massively important > anonymous message that has yet to be sent, I could eliminate some of this spam? Been there, tried that. There is nothing wrong with the current setup. -S.R.

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CDR: RE: Qualcomm CEO loses laptop
by Michael Motyka 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

>At 2:09 PM -0400 9/19/00, Templeton, Stuart wrote: >>wtf was the "Qualcomm Chief" doing walking around with secrets of that >>severity, much less on a laptop, on a podium in a HOTEL CONFERENCE ROOM >?????????? > >As with "A. Melon," you apparently don't bother to read the news. > >Jacobson was giving a talk, using his laptop for the talk, and >stepped away for a few moments to talk to some journalists. > >One can learn from his mistake, but the thrust of your comments, >"walking around with secrets of that severity..." is way off-base. > >Folks, if you don't read the news, or watch it on CNN and CNBC and >the like, please don't feel compelled to add foolish remarks. > >--Tim May >-- > Bad move. Apart from the insider trading sort of info that might be present on the machine maybe the most interesting thing would be e-mail or specs relating to LE access to communications systems. Maybe some generous thief will forward some good material to John.

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CDR: Re: Qualcomm CEO loses laptop - AP article illegal under DMCA?
by Kerry L. Bonin 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

At 01:44 PM 9/19/00 -0400, A. Melon wrote: >PC with Corporate Secrets > Disappears > Qualcomm Chiefs Laptop Taken from Podium > > Sept. 18, 2000 > > IRVINE, Calif. (AP) -- The personal portable [snip] > If security on Jacobs laptop was limited only to password protection > _ rather than a more advanced encryption scheme -- "its extremely > unlikely that it will take any more than removing the hard drive and > hooking it up to another computer to read all the files," Abbott said. Doesn't the above message now constitute a crime under DMCA? Couldn't Microsoft and/or Qualcomm now bring charges against the AP for revealing how to circumvent their protection (sic) measures?

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CDR: RE: was: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
by Trei, Peter 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

> Tim May[SMTP:tcmay@got.net] wrote: > > Jeesh. > > (From a practical standpoint, here in the Bay Area there is a growing > oversupply of lawyers. According to the newspapers, modulo their > biases and inaccuracies, many lawyer larvae are accepting "paralegal" > positions. As with past "shortages of doctors" and "shortages of > teachers," the boom-bust cycle continues. [...] Doctors, lawyers, teachers... All three groups share a certain property: They have effective control over who may practice their profession. In their own self-interest, they act to stifle competition. There are, of course weasel words to justify this: 'maintaining standards' being the most common ones. Teacher's unions rail against merit pay and vouchers, which would provide some notion of a competitive market in education. The unions insist on a seniority system. They even attempt to ban volunteer part-time teachers on 'quality' grounds, so you can't go in and give a computer class if you wanted to, since you don't have a teaching degree. Similar points can be made about doctors, and the use of IANAL indicates the fevered grip the bar associations have on legal advice and representation. Howver, the teaching and medical professions can't act to increase their feedstock - uneducated-as-yet children and ailing people respectively. Idle tort lawyers can, and do, dream up new ways to sue and generally make the world a nastier place as they enrich themselves. Only rulers are worse. Imagine if the software business were like this - that the programmers of the late 40's had formed an American Programmers Association, and it was unlawful for anyone without APA certification to write code for money. Ditto for using software not blessed by the APA. Entrance to the hallowed membership would, of course, require a four year electrical engineering degree followed by a post graduate degree from an accredited computer school. I'll leave it to others to imagine the world with an APA. I think it would be a much poorer place. Peter Trei Disclaimer: the above represents my opinion only. IANAL.

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CDR: RE: Qualcomm CEO loses laptop
by Templeton, Stuart 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

>As with "A. Melon," you apparently don't bother to read the news. true, sadly i'm not as up-to-date as i could be, as i have little free time and (blah blah excuse, blah, yeah, you get the idea) but that's SORTOF one of the reasons i've subscribed to this list (btw, i appoligize to everyone for being less than constructive or conversational in this email) >Jacobson was giving a talk, using his laptop for the talk, and >stepped away for a few moments to talk to some journalists. i caught this, and i think this is foolish. the "wtf was he doing that" thing was sortof a figure of speech, sorry. >One can learn from his mistake, but the thrust of your comments, >"walking around with secrets of that severity..." is way off-base. one can learn from ones mistakes indeed (his or mine??), however wether or not my statement is "off-base" is debatable... and though i guess the importance of the secrets is as well. so is the guy out "trade secrets" (and what not) or is he just out a nice little laptop? so with that in mind i came to the conclusion that they felt that they suffered a larger loss than 4000$ (i don't really know the price of the laptop)... simply put, i guess, if i had trade secrets that could potentialy cause as much damage to worry people like that , i wouldn't leave it alone, not for 15-20, not for 5, and not to talk to some journalists. honestly, though, i'm not really one to judge, as i've never been in his position before. (though i still maintain his action foolish, much as you probably view my emails now ! :) )and i'll try and hold back the urge to join in conversation and add opinion and potential new views on various situations that arise on this list. perhaps i'll learn more about that way. -----Original Message----- X-Loop: openpgp.net From: owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Tim May Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 2:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Qualcomm CEO loses laptop At 2:09 PM -0400 9/19/00, Templeton, Stuart wrote: >wtf was the "Qualcomm Chief" doing walking around with secrets of that >severity, much less on a laptop, on a podium in a HOTEL CONFERENCE ROOM ?????????? As with "A. Melon," you apparently don't bother to read the news. Jacobson was giving a talk, using his laptop for the talk, and stepped away for a few moments to talk to some journalists. One can learn from his mistake, but the thrust of your comments, "walking around with secrets of that severity..." is way off-base. Folks, if you don't read the news, or watch it on CNN and CNBC and the like, please don't feel compelled to add foolish remarks. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

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CDR: HoosierTimes.com: "State police suspend access to data base "
by auto87114＠hushmail.com 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

This message has been sent to you by auto87114(a)hushmail.com An article of interest can be viewed at the following web address: http://www.hoosiertimes.com/stories/2000/09/18/news.000918_HT_A5_PM015454.s… (Note some email programs may 'wrap' the URL onto two lines: it should actually be all on one line, ending with the .sto) This message brought to you by HoosierTimes.com, http://www.hoosiertimes.com/

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CDR: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
by Kevin Elliott 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

At 00:08 -0400 9/19/00, jlhoffm(a)attglobal.net wrote: >Betweens teenagers and adults?! You must have been perusing a NAMBLA website >from another world. I'm sorry but you seem to be the one in another world. Read the stupid website if you don't believe me www.nambla.de. -- Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott <mailto:kelliott@mac.com> ICQ#23758827 _______________________________________________________________________________ "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- Justice William O. Douglas

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CDR: rsa party correction
by Sameer Parekh 19 Sep '00

19 Sep '00

I made an error in the RSA party announcement. You do not need to wait until you receive an invitation after sending in your RSVP. Just send in your RSVP and print out the announcement as your invitation. thanks, -s

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