August 1993 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Apple+Clipper
by collins＠newton.apple.com 31 Aug '93

31 Aug '93

Tim and Paul present accurate evidence mitigating some of my specific points. I agree that the AV Macs and AOCE are steps (or even leaps) towards a platform favorable for clipper infestation. .....BEGIN HAIR SPLITTING MESSAGE..... I would like to fine tune one of Tim's comments: >#1 and #2 are already satisfied with the new generation of av Macs, as These machines most certainly do not contain the clipper chip (which I'm sure Tim did not mean to imply), though they do show that Apple can make machines with special purpose hardware and capabilities not present, or emulatable, on earlier machines (this, I think, was Tim's point: a counter example to my speculation). It is illuminating to note, however, that the 880av is not based on the same hardware as the 800. It is an earlier generation that took longer to come to market. In this sense it recalls the late IIfx i.e., faster for a while and then a dead end. In many ways, the 800 is a superior machine, and the 880 has some catching up to do (like adding interleaved RAM access, for one). By my count, the 880 has taken over three years to come to market. Summary: the AV Macs may indicate a new trend, but they do not represent an immediate foothold for clipper. .....END HAIR SPLITTING MESSAGE..... Other than that, and although they come to slightly different conclusions, I agree with Tim and Paul, who examined the root motives rather than 'diagnosing for symptoms'. My final take on this is: Apples history and our guesses about its likely motives lead me to (still) predict that Apple can't immediately jump on the Clipper bandwagon; though the further out we speculate (beyond 2 years?), the less faith in this prediction we can justify. I like to be wrong almost as much as I like to be right. More, if the pay is better. Scott Collins | "Few people realize what tremendous power there | is in one of these things." -- Willy Wonka ......................|................................................ BUSINESS. voice:408.862.0540 fax:974.6094 collins(a)newton.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. 1 Infinite Loop, MS 301-2C Cupertino, CA 95014 ....................................................................... PERSONAL. voice/fax:408.257.1746 1024:669687 catalyst(a)netcom.com

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Help/Advice requested
by Forrest Aldrich 31 Aug '93

31 Aug '93

I'm working on the development of a resonably secure software registration scheme, and thought that someone from the Cypherpunk list would be ideal for helping out. Sample code is even better, but general advice to do with the methodology and coding would be most appreciated. There is a program out there called PROTECT! EXE/COM, which does something on the lines of EXE encryption which has been brought up here. I've corresponded with the author and he won't release the code (understandably, he's worked very hard on it). Apparently what it does is (after you have run something like PKLITE on your executable) encapsulates the EXE file, encrypted, with CRC checks and debugger traps. He claims this is quite effective and has not had anyone come through with cracking it yet. Just thought I would mention this .... Unfortunately, that program is only for DOS/Windows. It would be NICE to have something like this working under UNIX, and I can't imagine that it would be that difficult, although it would most certainly be platform (assembly language) specific. Anyone have some ideas about how to implement such a beast? Thanks alot...

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AV Macs and Apple Paranoia
by Jamie Jamison 31 Aug '93

31 Aug '93

Actually I was going to ask in here if the DSP in the new Macs would lend itself to real-time PGP use for voice communications. WITH STANDARD DISCLAIMER

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Re: Matrix extensions of the rsa algorithm. (fwd)
by Timothy Newsham 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

Forwarded message: > You've probably gotten some other responses about this... > > I think that the paper you describe has been implemented as the Warlock > cyphersystem. Someone else posted a C++ Warlock implementation, and > some related material, to cypherpunks about two months ago. I can't > find my filed copy, but if you ask I'm sure someone has it stashed > away. > > Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG | "Change the world for a better tomorrow. But > perobich(a)ingr.com | watch your ass today." - aaron(a)halcyon.com > Intergraph Federal Systems | Be a cryptography user- ask me how. Does anyone have a copy of Warlock? I'd appreciate getting a copy from someone.

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Re: The need for FREE cryptography ...
by markh＠wimsey.bc.ca 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

> It would be wonderful if somebody would put a > reasonably secure package (much like PGP) and copyleft the source. > ... What I'd need, if I wanted to integrate this technology into > new platforms such as voice communication or an encrypted file system, is a > library of tools for shuffling this data around and piping it through the > "magic" algorithms. > > I wonder if somebody on this list could outline what efforts are being made > in this area. Well the GNU MP library would be a good place to start (it implements the raw RSA operations quite efficiently). It wouldn't be much work to package it up with free code for Triple DES, IDEA, MD5, SHS and some good "random" number generation algorithms. What you are looking for is something like RSAREF with different licensing terms. If this sort of work were to be distributed it should be done by someone outside of the U.S. and Canada. At one point I wrote some code to do part of this based on GMP (using LUC). I've seen old versions of it on anonymous ftp sites. Obviously one would want to add DH key exchange and some other features, but it did come with a very simple sample application called L3 which implemented PGP/RIPEM-like public key encryption and signing. Certainly if you can find an one of these old versions lying around on a ftp site, you are free to do with it as you like (anything I wrote is in the public domain) At this point, I do NOT plan to distribute any newer versions of this, because of anticipated patent infringement claims and because of the overly restrictive licence of GMP. It has essentially become a project for my own personal research and amusement. Mark -- Mark Henderson markh(a)wimsey.bc.ca (personal account) RIPEM key available by key server/finger/E-mail MD5OfPublicKey: F1F5F0C3984CBEAF3889ADAFA2437433

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Re: Apple vs. Free Software Foundation
by nobody＠soda.berkeley.edu 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

Steve Davis writes: >When something as broad and necessary as "freedom" is at stake, it is >important to know who your friends are. When my son asks me "What does 'fair' mean?", I had to answer: "It depends on who says it." When someone says "That's not fair!" or "I think that's fair", most often they are not weighing abstract values; they are deciding whether the situation is favorable to them, and describing it with charged vocabulary to sway all other parties to their point of view. Patents on machines are fair; but patents on really useful algorithms -- that I could actually use in my code (if it weren't for that damn patent) -- aren't. Why? Because I don't like it (and I really, really don't like it :( ). Companies act like people in many ways: they grow; they have goals; they protect their interests; and they ignore that which they don't believe will effect them. But like animals and machines, it is important not to anthropomorphize companies. No company is anyones 'friend'. I speak for neither Apple, nor FSF, but it is easy to see why they have taken the courses that they have. Neither path has led to its promised goal. FSF is not punishing Apple. It _is_ punishing programmers, individuals, human beings who have a job to do. In fact, the FSF is punishing me, since I have spent no small amount time programming Apple computers (and no small amount of time porting GNU tools to them). Has Apple's strategy of closely guarded secrets proved the correct one? Let's call up Bill Gates and ask him. In summary, I find your statements to be an undisguised attempt to hang your unrelated personal agenda from a charged political situation. Do I think that's fair? People have been doing it for centuries. I may not approve of Apple's technological strategy, but (even though it is not a human being) I will defend its right to _its_ privacy.

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The need for FREE cryptography ...
by strat＠abc.ksu.ksu.edu 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

There is still a void in the arena of free public encryption systems for regular human beings. It would be wonderful if somebody would put a reasonably secure package (much like PGP) and copyleft the source. PGP has never been a very useful tool to me as a programmer because of its internal structure. What I'd need, if I wanted to integrate this technology into new platforms such as voice communication or an encrypted file system, is a library of tools for shuffling this data around and piping it through the "magic" algorithms. I wonder if somebody on this list could outline what efforts are being made in this area. Stratocaster -- Steve Davis (strat(a)cis.ksu.edu) Kansas State University "[Nuclear Weapons] can't help but have an effect on the population as a whole." -- Ronald Reagan

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Re: Apple planning to use Clipper chip?
by nate＠rodin.VIS.ColoState.EDU 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

>5. Therefore, for a standard to emerge on the Mac... 1) Apple would have to >begin producing machines that contained this chip; 2) Apple would have to >produce special system software, explicitly for this class of machines, >that used this chip; 3) Apple would have to produce compelling end-user >communications software that used clipper services on this class of machines >and either didn't run at all on earlier hardware, or didn't use clipper >technology. kind of like they put the DSPs in the new macs, and make a new, individualized version o fhte MacOS for EVERY new machine (individualized by the "System Enablers").. and how they make everyone want the new macs because of the speech and video software, that is dependant on the new hardware... Nope, it'll never happen... -nate

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Re: Apple planning to use Clipper chip?
by scott＠Cadence.COM 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

At 12:45 PM 8/30/93 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >My speculation would be that the Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone deal, if it >is happening at all, is some time off. Perhaps for a phone version of >the av Macs (there had been speculation that Apple was planning to use >the on-board DSP hardware for a modem tool, similar to what NeXT has >done with its hardware). The Centris 660av and Quadra 840av are both equiped with the Phone software to allow them to do modem emulation, phone calls (speaker phone), and faxes in software only. If you want more info on this, send me an email and we'll keep it off this list. scott --- Scott Gustafson '93 ZX-11D Pilot (408) 894-3432 Cadence Design Systems, 555 River Oaks Pkwy., San Jose, CA 95134 Internet: scott(a)cadence.com WARNING: This vechile capable of evading high speed pursuit.

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Re: Another BBS Seizure in Hartford
by Peter Wayner 30 Aug '93

30 Aug '93

BTW, there is a story in today's NYT about a poor, French kid who watched McGiver make a bomb in the TV show and then decided to "try this at home." He was killed. Now his family has filed a nice, big law suit. The guy on the show made the bomb with sugar and some kind of fertilizer or other stuff. -Peter

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