August 1993 - cypherpunks-legacy

Digital Gold, a bearer instrument?
by hnash＠mason1.gmu.edu 26 Aug '93

26 Aug '93

Paul Moses writes: >A bearer instrument is payable to WHOEVER IS HOLDING IT. >There are no title searches done on coins used in everyday >commerce. ... > >The question is, what is the end to which this chain of title >is being put? To verify that the holder is a "valid" holder? >THIS IS IRRELEVANT. He who holds, owns. These are fine questions. Thanks for asking them. The purpose I have in mind for the chain of titles is as a way of establishing ownership of something which consists *wholey of information*. It is the closest approximation I can imagine to a bearer instrument for bearers who can have no physical contact. Please notice that the chain of titles is between *aliases* which do not reveal the identities of the people trading the coins. Only the people engaged in particular transactions can associate particular people with particular digital coins. Who owns digital coin #1? (It might be me, but it has already been transfered to a new alias once.) The chain of titles I have proposed does not increase accountability. The public cannot determine where the money is being spent, they can only determine the aliases which anonymously identify the latest owners. This is the bear minimum information that could make a peice of information valuable to the members of a community. Yours Truly, ][adon Nash

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Digital Gold or Digital Dirt?
by hnash＠mason1.gmu.edu 26 Aug '93

26 Aug '93

Dave Burns writes: >2) Why should anyone value a digital gold coin in the first >place? Money has value because of people's expectation >(based on experience) that if they take it to a store they >can buy stuff with it. Where will digital gold obtain its >bootstrap value? Somebody has to start using it. Good question. At this point, we might call it "digital dirt" because no one values it at all. The important thing is that a limited quantity of an informational substance exists. Therefore, if some community wants to begin using information as a medium of exchange, a suitable "virtual substance" exists. Furthermore, the fact that these tokens are not backed by any particular organization may be essential. As I understand it, the US government prohibits its citizens from making private currencies that compete with the US dollar. But it doesn't prohibit them from trading any currencies they like. Therefore, as long as no-one guarantees digital gold (as long as its value is due only to convention), it should be legal. Yours Truly, ][adon Nash

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Viacrypt PGP source code unavailable
by cjl＠micro.med.cornell.edu 26 Aug '93

26 Aug '93

>I talked once again with Dave Barnheart at ViaCrypt, and he told me: > > A) No source code will be available, due to the nature of the >agreement between PKP and ViaCrypt. > >So in answer to (Paul Goggin's?) questions about verification of changes, >"We'll Just Have To Trust Them(tm)" <g> PUBLIC NOTICE: The question below reflects the curiosity of a cryptologically, and mathematically, fairly naive user of PGP. Isn't there some way to black box it the way engineers do with circuits? If you control the inputs, randseed, message, keys etc. that goes into each copy of the program aren't you going to be able to compare the outputs directly. Or are they going to be different everytime because of some randomization I am unaware of? remember the naive part :-) You may not be able to break PGP with a plaintext attack, but all you really need to know is that the output of the unsourced VIACrypt gives the same result as the freeware, don't you? Awaiting enlightenment, please be gentle it's my first time :-} C. J. Leonard <cjl(a)micro.med.cornell.edu

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Re: Digital Coin Claim
by plmoses＠unix.cc.emory.edu 26 Aug '93

26 Aug '93

Clarification 1) unix munched out on some text. Para 2: "such a history is necessary only to clarify with currency and bearer instruments disputes over ownership....arg try again now "to clarify disputes over ownership, liens, and defects - things which are simply not problems with bearer instruments" Clarification 2) Digicoins may differ from ordinary currency in being revocable, but this is not necessary. That is, X loses his digicoin. Y finds it and uses it. Just like money. OR: X loses his digicoin. Y finds it but cannot use it b/c Y does not know the PIN. OR: X loses his digicoin. Y could use the digicoin, but X calls the issuing bank and they cancel the digicoin number. In the last scenario, the one most compatible with the 'chain of title' or verification-type approach, there is clearly a major privacy problem. At least this is the way I see it...

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Re: Digital Coin Claim
by plmoses＠unix.cc.emory.edu 26 Aug '93

26 Aug '93

The idea of Digital Gold, here, now seems to include a Chain of Title dimension. The idea that successive owners need to "record" the transfer from the previous owner just completely *baffles* me. A bearer instrument is payable to WHOEVER IS HOLDING IT. There are no title searches done on coins used in everyday commerce. What "hnash" proposes is probably do-able, but currency does not operate this way. On the other hand, this is exactly what you do with Real Property. I think that creating a chain of title for digicoins would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. Creating a history of ownership is done in order to increase accountability, not privacy. And such a history is necessary only to clarify disputes over ownership, liens, defects....things which are simply not problems with currency and bearer instruments. The question is, what is the end to which this chain of title is being put? To verify that the holder is a "valid" holder? THIS IS IRRELEVANT. He who holds, owns. A safeguard MAY be introduced (such as a PIN) for public policy and convenience (ie people will not be scared of armed robbery), but it is a secondary measure. The digicoin is by definition (and purpose) SELF-AUTHENTICATING. Any computer magic here will only be the electronic equivalent of the red and blue fibers in the dollar bill paper, the seals, the complex designs and colors of other currencies, etc. Otherwise you don't have money. - Paul

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INFO: smoking gun?
by Brian D Williams 25 Aug '93

25 Aug '93

"According to sources at the National Security Agency, on the morning of July 13, 1982, the NSA had intercepted commercial communications from the Washington office of Mitsubishi to the Japanese Foreign Ministry in Tokyo. The NSA monitors fifty-three thousand communication signals in the United States every day. They usually aren't reviewed by analysts, however, unless the signal carries a message with a signature-a key word or phrase that triggers a computer to transcribe the communication. Any word that might signal confidential or classified government information triggers the transcribing system." from Friendly spies, page 90. looks like a smoking gun to me...... Brian Williams Cypherpatriot

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Julieboard DDS
by Kent Hastings 25 Aug '93

25 Aug '93

Julieboard DDS Remember my constant whining about the lack of suitable hardware for spread-spectrum radio? No more! The August 1993 issue of 73 Amateur Radio Today contains an article and schematic for: JULIEBOARD. Woo hoo! Ahem. The Julieboard is a Direct Digital Synthesis (DDS) circuit built around the 28-pin DIP Harris HSP45102 DDS chip. A software controller program is shown using GWBASIC. Here is a summary of features: "0 to 16 MHz coverage (*Note: can be used to modulate UHF/Microwave*) 0.007 Hz frequency resolution Virtually instantaneous switching time No drift/no calibration Excellent spectral quality Simple interface via PC printer port" The following is music to my eyes (Wha?...Dhoh!): "...there is no reason why an appropriately programmed single chip microcomputer (such as a Motorola '68705 or Intel '8051) couldn't replace the PC for those who object to having to drag around a large, bulky *Homer-mungous* PC just to drive a tiny little board. With a single chip microcomputer, an entire HF rig could be made to fit into a shirt-pocket-sized package!" A circuit board can be obtained for $25 U.S. from: Bruce Hodgkinson, VE3JIL Box 232 Pakenham, Ontario, CANADA K0A 2X0 Phone: (613) 624-5247 A wired and tested 33-MHz chip system can be obtained from stock or within a week for $120+$5.00 S&H. A wired and tested 40-MHz chip system waits up to 8 weeks for availability of chips, and costs $135+$5.00 S&H. Bruce told me that the 33-MHz chips he tested worked fine at 40-MHz. It seems Harris is very conservative in their chip ratings. Of course, nobody would use these DDS boards for direct-sequence, frequency-hopping, time-hopping, plus chaos-transmitted-reference hybrid spread-spectrum transmitters to achieve signal hiding and interference rejection. Nope. Last thing on MY mind. Haa ha ha ha... eat flaming death statist scum! You are all doomed! Kent aka WA6ZFY - <jkhastings(a)aol.com>

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Commerical PGP
by Paul Goggin 25 Aug '93

25 Aug '93

Chris, I would be interested in going in on a group purchase of this product. However, there is one main question on my mind: Unless they provide the source code, how do we know these are the only lines changed within PGP 2.3A? Paul -- R O All Comments Copyright by | Technofetisht A N Paul S. Goggin (1993) | Cypher, Cyber, Chaos V Information Broker | Ergoflux, Interzone E chaos(a)aql.gatech.edu | Carpe Diem: Stop the Clipper wiretap chip Finger account for latest _Phrack_ | Public Key: PGP and RIPEM available For anonymous communication:---> anonymus+4744(a)charcoal.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Title 18 USC 2511 and 18 USC 2703 Protected -- Monitoring Absolutely Forbidden

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reading mail with gnus
by Mike Rose 25 Aug '93

25 Aug '93

I'd like to start reading cypherpunks mail with gnus, and continue reading my other mail with rmail. Is this possible? I'm running emacs 19.19; I know there were patches for an earlier gnus that supported this, but I don't know if they work with the emacs 19 gnus. Thanks, Mike

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How "Wired" did the "Crypto Rebels" article
by tcmay＠netcom.com 25 Aug '93

25 Aug '93

A free newspaper devoted to graphics arts, "OnLine Design," has a nice piece in the August issue: "Designing _Wired_," by Ken Coupland. (I've seen this issue at a mall software store, so those of you in California may want to look for it before it vanishes.) The focus is on the launching of "Wired," its layout policies, the feel of the paper, the design team, and so on. "Wired" is turning into a major publishing success story, hence the interest in its creative/artistic side. The Steven Levy article on "Crypto Rebels" got a major part of the coverage, especially the cover (some Cypherpunks in masks, holding the American flag, in case some of you newcomers to this list missed this issue) and the opening 2-page spread used in that article. The caption for the 2-page spread is: "This layout for the "Crypto Rebels" piece supports the story's argument that the "Cypherpunks" are patriotic revolutionaries." Nice to see that the "meme" is being accepted that folks like us are on the right side. Interestingly, one of the photos of the design editors shows one of them holding a "Cypherpunks mask" up in front of her face. (Needless to say, they are the ones who thought up the mask idea in the first place.) Just thought you'd like to hear about this article. -- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: by arrangement Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

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