- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: First Virtual?
by Andrew Lowenstern 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mark Terka writes: > Ok, so what are our options, given that this company seems to think > of security in terms of a plastic padlock. From corresponding posts > on the list, the only other alternative, Digicash, doesn't seem to > be too responsive to anyone's participation right now. It seems to me that DigiCash mistakenly 'jumped the gun' and announced before they were truly ready to test. This is such a common ocurrance in the computer industry that I'm suprised people are making noise over it. However, it indicates their reluctance to ship something before it's ready, which is good considering the technical and political challenges of the task they are undertaking. How can you really compare the proposed DigiCash systems versus FirstVirtual? One is a 'toy' system for moving credit card numbers around without actually broadcasting them in the clear, the other is a cryptographically secure digital cash type system. It's not suprising that FirstVirtual is ready sooner than DigiCash. However, assuming each system was ready and working as advertised, which would you trust for your financial transactions? With the possibility of millions and billions of dollars of commerce ocurring on the net in the near future, which do you think most people will want to use? While FirstVirtual may have it's place in the world of online payment systems, it is IMHO no replacement for a real digital cash system. The fact that most of the people who have even heard of these new payment systems are unaware of the not so subtle differences should alarm most cypherpunks. Digital cash isn't going to happen overnight (although most of us would like it to), and the last thing we want is for systems like FirstVirtual to become the de facto standard for online payment... andrew

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VOTE NO!
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On mandatory sigs: I personally don't fathom the idea (as some of you do), I've always perceived PGP(Tm) as something I would use when I really had something sensitive to send a friend, or when I was making a public announcement to a mailing list or newsgroup. But to use it to sign EVERY single piece of mail I send to cypherpunks is asking a lot from me as my setup is very similar to Tim Mays', and I don't want to be singled out because of it! I think the list should proceed as it has since its formation, and subscribers should just sign their messages as they see fit. I know I'm not posting anything new, but considering the torrential flood of trash that Detweiler posted, it's not that much of a waste. :-)= Good evening.

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New version (1.2) of CFS now available
by Matt Blaze 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Source code for the latest version of CFS (release 1.2), the Cryptographic File System, is now available upon request for research and experimental use in the US and Canada. CFS pushes encryption services into the Unix(tm) file system. It supports secure storage at the system level through a standard Unix file system interface to encrypted files. Users associate a cryptographic key with the directories they wish to protect. Files in these directories (as well as their pathname components) are transparently encrypted and decrypted with the specified key without further user intervention; cleartext is never stored on a disk or sent to a remote file server. CFS employs a novel combination of DES stream and codebook cipher modes to provide high security with good performance on a modern workstation. CFS can use any available file system for its underlying storage without modification, including remote file servers such as NFS. System management functions, such as file backup, work in a normal manner and without knowledge of the key. CFS runs under SunOS and several other BSD-derived systems with NFS. It is implemented entirely at user level, as a local NFS server running on the client machine's "loopback" interface. It consists of about 5000 lines of code and supporting documentation. You must have "root" access to install CFS. CFS was first mentioned at the work-in-progress session at the Winter '93 USENIX Conference and was more fully detailed in: Matt Blaze, "A Cryptographic File System for Unix", Proc. 1st ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security, Fairfax, VA, November 1993. (PostScript available by anonymous ftp from research.att.com in the file dist/mab/cfs.ps.) and in Matt Blaze, "Key Management in an Encrypting File System", Proc. Summer '94 USENIX Tech. Conference, Boston, MA, June 1994. (PostScript available by anonymous ftp from research.att.com in the file dist/mab/cfskey.ps.) The new version differs from the version described in the papers in a few ways: * The encryption scheme has been strengthened, and now provides greater security but with the online latency of only single-DES. * Support for the smartcard-based key management system is not included and a few of the tools are not included. * The performance has been improved. * The security of the system against certain non-cryptanalytic attacks has been improved somewhat. * User-contributed ports to a number of additional platforms. * Hooks for adding new ciphers. * 3-DES and MacGuffin encryption options. * Timeout options allow automatic detach of encrypted directories after a set time or period of inactivity. CFS is being distributed as a research prototype; it is COMPLETELY UNSUPPORTED software. No warranty of any kind is provided. We will not be responsible if the system deletes all your files and emails the cleartext directly to the NSA or your mother. Also, we do not have the resources to port the software to other platforms, although you are welcome to do this yourself. The software was developed under SunOS and BSDI, and there are also unsupported user-contributed ports available for AIX, HP/UX, Irix, Linux, Solaris and Ultrix. We really can't promise to provide any technical support at all, beyond the source code itself. We also maintain a mailing list for CFS users and developers; subscription information is included with the source code. Because of export restrictions on cryptographic software, we are only able to make the software available within the US and Canada to US and Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Unfortunately, we cannot make it available for general anonymous ftp or other uncontrolled access, nor can we allow others to do so. Sorry. Legal stuff from the README file: * Copyright (c) 1992, 1993, 1994 by AT&T. * Permission to use, copy, and modify this software without fee * is hereby granted, provided that this entire notice is included in * all copies of any software which is or includes a copy or * modification of this software and in all copies of the supporting * documentation for such software. * * This software is subject to United States export controls. You may * not export it, in whole or in part, or cause or allow such export, * through act or omission, without prior authorization from the United * States government and written permission from AT&T. In particular, * you may not make any part of this software available for general or * unrestricted distribution to others, nor may you disclose this software * to persons other than citizens and permanent residents of the United * States and Canada. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS BEING PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED * WARRANTY. IN PARTICULAR, NEITHER THE AUTHORS NOR AT&T MAKE ANY * REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY OF ANY KIND CONCERNING THE MERCHANTABILITY * OF THIS SOFTWARE OR ITS FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. If you would like a copy of the CFS source code, please send email to: cfs(a)research.att.com DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THE SENDER OF MESSAGE. You must include a statement that you are in the US or Canada, are a citizen or legal permanent resident of the US or Canada, and have read and understand the license conditions stated above. Also include an email address in a US or Canada-registered domain. The code will be sent to you via email in a uuencoded compressed tarfile.

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Re: The Market for Crypto--A Curmudgeon's View
by Amanda Walker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I disagree here -- I've gotten a couple of jobs where my net > reputation preceded me and was the primary motivator for my getting > an interview. I was also told at one of them to continue posting as I > did because they felt that their reputation was enhanced by mine. Indeed. Every job I've had since part-time consulting in college has been gotten through the net, and with me electronic presentation and reputation a large factor in getting hired. My official title at InterCon is "Software Engineer / Net Goddess", and among my official responsibilities are to competently and professionally represent myself and my employer on the Internet. The whole reason I'm on cypherpunks, in fact, is because we're ramping up on supporting encryption & authentication in our commercial software, and this is where the ideas are. > And "cannot make money on the net"? How do you see this? Much as I > hate the metaphor, I don't make money on the local highways either, > but they're a part of real life. It would also be hard to ship things without highways & airports :). This is why the net is an example of infastructure. InterCon probably makes more money from people who download our demos over the net, or see reviews and recommendations on comp.sys.mac.*, than we do from our traditional printed advertising (and given the quality of a couple of our MacWeek ads, this is a darned good thing :)). > Just because the reputations aren't digital yet, nor is the cash, > doesn't mean that the Net isn't real life. It's as real as nearby > I-94. And a lot more interesting and complex. I agree. And reputations *are* becoming at least partially digital. I've refused to hire people because I've seen them being twits on the net, and I've hired people (and been hired) because I make a generally good net.impression. It even got my picture in Fortune magazine this spring. If that's not at least a start at a digital reputation, I'm not sure what is. Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation

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Re: recent voice over data (fwd)
by Dave Emery 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message:

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Re: Scalability of Ecash System / Article on Internet Cash available.
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:33 AM 12/2/94 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Filched from buyinfo, where they've been talking a lot about e$ lately... Oops. Sorry folks. That's what I get for letting my outbound mail stack up... Call it a prequel to the Brands excluded thread... Sorry again. Long story. Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) "There is no difference between someone Shipwright Development Corporation who eats too little and sees Heaven and 44 Farquhar Street someone who drinks too much and sees Boston, MA 02331 USA snakes." -- Bertrand Russell (617) 323-7923

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Re: ERIK HUGHES: EGOTISTICAL PRICK
by ddt＠lsd.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Subject: ERIK HUGHES: EGOTISTICAL PRICK FWIW, I know Eric and can spell his name properly. From the numerous times I've been in his presence, it's my humble opinion that he's about the furthest thing from the bozo described in this flame that I can imagine. Whoever posted this rudeness is cruelly clue-challenged about Eric's character. From the content of his/her attack, this person should really apologize, but from the puerility of it, I doubt the author is mature enough to admit it. BTW, Eric was and is an early and consistent contributor of quality thinking to this list as far back as I can remember, which is early '92, has donate a lot of time and effort to helping maintain it, and I have no problem with him being photographed or known as a "founder." He's never in any way abused or even preened about it, afaik, and seems appropriately non-egotistical at all times, both in person and in posts. I'm pretty sick of ad hominem attacks like this on the net, but they usualy emanate from sleep-deprived teenagers with no manners who post anonymously, and not from responsible individuals trying to add a voice of humility to an important debate. Laugh it off, Eric, and ignore it (as I know you will). As for the idea of mandatory signatures: on the surface it's a pain and I don't much like it, but then, it does do an important thing in promoting "verifiable" posts. I don't post much material to the list (mostly I learn from you guys), and don't find it particularly onerous. Someone who contributes regularly might find it an inconvenience. Lots of things are way more inconvenient, if you ask me (like applying for an FOIA report). I think it might have the positive side-effect of providing an incentive for people to post meaningful information, and not lots of noise to the list (thereby somewhat diminishing the high volume). What effect does it have on anonymity, though? That could be a serious sticking point: as much as I dislike flames and idiocy from anonymous posters, I will defend their right to post anonymously regardless of how unpleasantly it smells. dave ____________________________________________ "Even the mad scientists called me crazy!" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLt/zWaHBOF9KrwDlAQFzfAP+MusVHsSaPVq0jzLvqBCUVf8O+JAFbQXZ PKNHai6WXNJqECknifZ9GTYg0tccKY4G+xWjED6oLjeK3V1ds7hIaWNUrFg8Ok6r hH1oPnIMqxY6Iqc0XrgyY+5JnOBVWILA+Iwxy1I0UP+J10Tz8qUY1Q4CL5Ld7yqd FE7JafKUxOw= =Yoe9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: First Virtual?
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Responding to msg by eric(a)remailer.net (Eric Hughes) on Sat, 3 Dec 9:56 AM Not a big deal, but for Unix-fans who deign toy-PCs, PC Mag of December 20 has two brief pieces on First Virtual, indicating that its mass-market greenbucks are abuying hard pitch Xmas-adcopy. One dim-spots other "digital buck" services SpyGlass and Open Market, cash-poor things. See pp. 32 and 61. [First time use of the sig below, be gentle, still learning how to get PGP-signed message in this mailer.] - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAy6rxQQAAAEEANW657bMcILCSaEYHV46DQWojtHDv6UQ2qGz+6wG5g5Q7KMz QkQjM+fYNScW4fDUYH02wLG5x/E5hYwSaYal0k0b6G9m921QKqhVYj2+QzfiMqce N45t4GjSNBdwmNywZEyz5RKXbAWm78DmAt9Ro3M8AGvG1XrsU4Sb9hQ07hCVAAUR tB1Kb2huIFlvdW5nIDxqeWFAcGlwZWxpbmUuY29tPg== =F0Xj - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- - ------------------- - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLuCvBioZzwIn1bdtAQGKqgGAnUpbIyAQ4aE1d0iHHZQLpj8yn2jRHruS oK8hqFI8AI07p0pMGl7kcgm1OefM/zOy =aTQt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Info about Linux
by crawford＠scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Joe Block, jpb(a)gate.net, sez: > I want to run linux on this beast and would like some suggestions from the > list - which of the linux CDs do you recommend? Hi, I've got Linux. Linux comes in different "distributions" - collections of files that have been integrated into a coherent system. My distribution is sold by Yggdrasil, (408) 261-6630, (800) 261-6630, for $39.95. I like it because it comes with a single boot floppy, and will run off the CDROM once it boots, so you can check it out without even having a hard disk installed. If you've got time, patience, a good, fast net connection and a whole lotta floppies, the slackware distribution (and a couple of others) are available via anonymous FTP from sunsite.unc.edu. There are also several other distributions available on CDROM from various vendors. Check the ads in the Linux Journal (subs(a)ssc.com for subscription info, (206) 527-3385, or at one of the bookstores I mention further down). If you know about computers, and are willing to put some time into mucking around fixing little petty problems, you can get a very nice system. Mine is a 33 MHz 386 (this is a little too slow for me, but works well), with 8MB of memory (sufficient, should have more), and a nice fast 2.1 GB Fast SCSI-2 Quantum Empire 2100S hard disk. I invested in the hard disk as I felt it would be a lasting value in future computers. I'm skimping on ISA bus cards for the PC as I want to get a PCI bus machine, probably a 100MHz 486, in a few months. You will be able to install Linux, the compiler, basic utilities, and the kernel sources with the disk space you have. You'll want to get more hard disk. I would recommend installing Linux a couple of times, just to see how it goes, before committing to a permanent installation. If you can't get more disk space, you can leave the Yggdrasil CDROM in your drive all the time and run the programs off the CDROM. Slower, but it works OK. I highly recommend the Linux Bible, from Yggdrasil, whatever distribution you get. Read the "How To's" on the various hardware options _before_ purchasing any new hardware. There are many supported peripherals, but I understand many of them work only marginally. For example, the UART chips generally used in PC serial ports are quite inadequate for driving an internet connection, as your machine will spend all its time servicing one-interrupt-per-character interrupts, but a serial card with a 16 character buffer that works just fine is available quite cheaply. You can FTP the bible from ftp.yggdrasil.com, but you'll want the hardcopy as it is over 1000 pages. The cover price is less than the cost of the toner cartridge you'll burn printing it. The How To's, the Linux MetaFAQ and lots of other info are on rtfm.mit.edu and sunsite.unc.edu. I've used lots of Unix systems, from System V on a 286, to Sun workstations, Vaxes, and even a Cray running Unicos, and I can say that Linux is equal to or better than any of them as far as what the OS can do, in some respects much much better. (I removed SCO ODT from my hard disk to install Linux. I might reinstall it on a second drive just to test my programs). There are still lots of glitches, but you have the source code, and access to comp.os.linux.help, where everyone else has the source code too - it beats the Hell out of Sun's technical support, IMHO. With about two thousand dollars more hardware, I would have a machine I would enjoy as much as a fifteen thousand dollar Sun, with the source code to boot ;-). One thing I highly recommend: if you or anyone you know is planning on setting up a full-time Internet connection, use a Linux box as a router, running PPP or SLIP out a modem, and ethernet on your LAN. Even a slow 386 has enough performance to service a SLIP connection at 28 kbaud, and since you have the source code to the kernel and all the internet server software, you can implement a firewall any way you like. I'm contemplating preparing my own distribution, which would be a very stripped-down Linux kernel and OS utility set, on a small number of bootable CDROMs, to allow one to install a firewall router on a small hard disk. Don't hold your breath waiting for this though. There is a security enhancement I mean to try once I've set up my own full-time router (watch for http://crawford.sc.scruznet.com, in about two weeks, maybe a month). I want to remove the ability to set the setuid bit from the kernel. Trying to set the setuid bit on a file will abort the process. Of course you can't install system software if this is done - but I could boot off a different kernel to do maintenance. This would prevent the problem of a hacker breaking in and dropping a program in my path that the hacker intends me to accidentally execute as root. There would be ways to set the bit (writing into the raw disk special file) but it would require more effort to accomplish. Crypto enthusiasts in the US and Canada can get Matt Blaze's CFS - I just got the sources, and haven't tried them out yet, but I understand there is already a Linux port. Now here's a puzzler for you. The People's Republic of China is working very hard to modernize, but still lacks capital for much hardware investment, so you see banks using 386 boxes to run an entire bank, if the bank uses a computer at all. A couple of years ago I heard that the PRC signed a deal with some big Unix vendor to supply the nation with computers and software, for many millions of dollars. Why don't they use Linux? The PRC is certainly not lacking for educated people who could do all the development they need. You can get Linux books and CDROM's from the Computer Literacy bookstore on North First Street in San Jose, and Powell's technical books in Portland Oregon. Powell's does mail order, and has a Web page which allows you to search their inventory for books. They've got lots of crypto books too, 2600 Magazine and lots of engineering books. I think the URL is http:technical.powells.portland.or.us. Development versions of Linux are available for Macintoshes and MIPS machines. If I were to use a Linux Laptop, I would put it on a Macintosh Powerbook. Regards, Michael D. Crawford crawford(a)scruznet.com <- Please note change of address. crawford(a)maxwell.ucsc.edu <- Finger me here for PGP Public Key.

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ecash trial issues explained
by Marcel van der Peijl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(This message is not an official DigiCash message but represents my personal opinions) Here are some answers to issues recently discussed on the cypherpunks list. I do not read this list as that takes too much time, I only read what people that do read forward from the list to me. Stefan Brands is not excluded in any way from the trial. His request was never received at DigiCash. Several others in the CWI crypto group (all that applied) did receive their accounts. There is no 'political boycot'. The ecash software allows for multiple payment protocols to co-exist. Besides the currently implemented protocol and the Stefan Brands system there are more possible systems. We are not fixed in any way to the current protocol. Besides the patent issues, it is not clear which protocol is better. Last time I checked (a week ago, I am currently on the road) there well over 500 or 600 active ecash accounts. But there are another 1000 accounts waiting, and new requests coming in between 10 and 100 per day. As the mail that was sent out explains, the trial is rolled out in phases. The result is that the software is more 'robust' before large quantities of users run into the same problem, in the sense that it works on any OS in any configuration with any network hookup, no matter how 'bad'. (We are not in the business of being a 'network helpdesk'.) Potential ecash vendors have had priorities in being assigned ecash accounts. But they are also 'harrassed' for actually doing what they promise to do. Because we can not support a 24 hour staff and we want to keep response time low, people in time zones close to ours (GMT+1) have been issued accounts first. At the moment we are confident we can scale up the trial. I promise you it will not be several more months before everyone can join the trial. People that run into ecash problems are almost always helped or replied to the same day, and often within the hour. However, some people send their problems to the wrong address, such as the generic ecash info address or the feedback address, which may result in not getting an answer for several days. If mails go to ecash-bugs(a)digicash.com, the developers involved immediately see the mail and help out, provided they are technical mails and have sufficient information to actually be able to give help. As you can imagine, problems described as 'it does not work for me' without any extra information take a few mails back and forth, and tedious searching in log files, before the actual problem is clear. You can understand the anonimity of the system does not make that easier. People that compare FV or other systems and ecash are really comparing apples and pears. From a business view they may look the same, but how they operate is totally different. Ecash is the only system that allows for full anonimity on the buyers side using public key technology. We strongly believe it should not be possible for anyone to see all individual transactions a person makes. The business model used is also different. We do not charge users or shops a fee to use the ecash system, and provide the ecash software (both client and shop) for free, and give support for free. Unfortunately this does mean we are not getting large sums of money to spend on slick marketing schemes. Just a final remark before totally boring you to death: Some of the people that post unfriendly messages on mailing lists, like Stefan Brands, do so before actually mailing to us. Please give us a fair chance! Marcel van der Peijl Ecash technical project leader DigiCash bv http://www.digicash.com/

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