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Why Americans feel no compulsion to learn foreign languages
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:27 AM 3/27/96, Herb Sutter wrote: >If you'll excuse a European joke: "Q: What does a European call someone who >speaks four languages? A: Gifted. Q: Three languages? A: Bright. Q: Two >languages? A: Normal. Q: One language? A: American." :-) (No, this isn't >a snub, it's just meant in good humour; it applies to a lot of us Canucks >too even though we do have two official languages. Heck, I apply it to >myself; my French is rusty, I haven't used it in over 12 years.) A girlfriend of mine was born in Denmark and spoke four languages (Danish, English, German, and French) before immigrating here at the age of 19. Danish was of course her native language, English is taught in all countries of Europe as a _lingua franca_ (ironically), German because the Danes have the Germans as neighbors, and French as her "elective." For Europeans, knowing the language of one's immediate neighbors (probably only a hundred kilometers away), and knowing English, accounts for much of their language facility. Americans are typically thousands of miles away from those speaking Japanese, Mandarin, Tagalog, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Spanish, Hindi, Talegu, and the hundreds of other languages. It is not at all clear what language Americans should pick as a "second language" to study. (Myself, I studied some German in high school, largely because in the 60s this is what science folks were expected to take. Artsy craftsy folks took French, and the slackers took Spanish. The real wonks took Latin, mainly to help them on their verbal SATs. Russian was offered as a trendy addition, later replaced by Mandarin and Japanese, the supposedly "essential business languages of the future," which have turned out not to be essential at all.) Europeans who look down on Americans for not studying the language of their neigbors simply aren't familiar with a map. The one language that a neighbor of ours differs on is Spanish, and this language is, for various reasons, useful mainly in infrequent vacations in Mexico, for speaking to gardeners and maids, and for giving instructions to day laborers and factory workers. Inasmuch as all Mexican hotels and restaurants understand English, and inasmuch as not many Americans travel to Mexico for other than vacations by the sea, etc., things become clearer. There is not a single foreign language I can think of it that would help me in my goals or help anyone I know. This is the reality of a world dominated by English-speaking persons and in which all technical people learn English. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Cypher of former eastern intelligence agency broken?
by stoll＠as200.zi-mannheim.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here is an abstract of a report the German newsmagazine Focus published on March 11, 1996 (p. 16) - "Spaete Ermittlungen gegen Techno-Spione" (late/belated investigations against technology spies). I do not include a translation of the whole original text for copyright reasons. "Specialists of the German Federal Police Agency (BKA) have decrypted 44 floppy disks from the former [East German] Ministry for State Security" (MfS). A defector had handed over the floppies to the German Federal Intelligence Agency (BND) in spring 1990. The disks contain information on East German spies in former West Germany. Judicial inquiries against 29 suspects have started now. Apparently, the BKA got the data no sooner than 1994. This is because the BND did not tell law authorities about the floppy disks. German federal DAs learned about the data in late summer 1994 by chance. The article does not say whether the defector came over with the keys. - Probably not, otherwise prosecution should have started much earlier. It is likely that the extremely paranoic MfS used a cipher and a key length it believed to be sufficiently strong. According to Bruce Schneier's Applied Cryptography East Germany was quite aware of DES, it even produced DES chips. Another possibly strong algorithm used in the former Soviet block is GOST (a block cipher derived from the concepts of DES, also described by Schneier). Let us assume BKA specialists have broken the code using a combination of cryptoanalysis, brute force and good luck. They are policemen, not espionage professionals. Further, the BKA is much smaller than the FBI. Imagine what code breaking capabilities a well-funded, big intelligence agency should have then!

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Re: Let's *NOT* "Raise their Awareness"
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:07 PM 3/26/96 -5:00, Michael C. Peponis wrote: >On Tue, 26 Mar 1996 , David K. Merriman wrote: > The judge is correct in this matter, most people view it from the > rights of the parents, but what about the child who, because of > his/her parents egotism and ignorance, grows up not being able to > compete effectivly? I am sure the judge is right in this matter, but is in any of his damned business. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: So, what crypto legislation (if any) is necessary?
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:59 AM 3/26/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >At 7:08 AM 3/26/96, Shabbir J. Safdar wrote: >My point is that I see no compelling legislation that is needed. If enough >people in Washington really want increased length in _exported products_ >(remember the "exported" part), the Congress and the President should find >it easy enough to get said products on to the Approved List. (I note that >the Leahy Bill really doesn't change this system anyway...some products go >on the list, some don't...the law only seems to say that when the horse has >already left the barn, i.e., when "comparable" products are already in >fairly wide use outside the U.S., then the products should be put on the >approved list. Big deal. There is, however, a slightly different way of looking at this. For centuries, there was a saying "Nature abhors a vacuum." While not scientifically correct, from the standpoint of people living below an ocean of atmosphere it seemed to be true. Likewise, the political system seems to abhor a situation where there is neither law, nor a proposed law. The best tactic might be to insist on modifications to the Leahy bill, most of which are quite justified, but cumulatively will be seen by "the enemy" as being so extreme as to be unacceptable. At that point, the enemy may actually agree with our assessment that no law is better than the corrected Leahy bill, and we'll both walk away satisified with the "no law" option. Think of it like pouring sugar into a gas tank. [stuff deleted] > >And, frankly and bluntly, while I am not as extreme (in some ways) as, say, >Jim Bell, in other ways I and many others of us are quite extreme. Hey, see, I'm useful! I make you look more, uh, "reasonable", right? Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Bad news from Judge Richey
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:33 PM 3/25/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >At 3:28 AM 3/26/96, jim bell wrote: > >>I realize that this may appear to be a rather disrespectful tactic, but have >>you considered reminding the judge that if you are not allowed to profit by >>exporting encryption that the government doesn't want to see exported, >>you'll just have to make money in some other way, and this may lead you to >>talk to Jim Bell about implementing a program using encryption that doesn't >>_need_ to be exported...legally anyway. > >Whoahh! Hold on there, Jimbo! You're crossing the line. > >You're coming perilously close to actually calling for the killing of a >federal judge. My recollection is that a couple of folks have been arrested >and charged for calling for the killing of judges. Now now, Tim. You know me better than that. You know that I would never be so restrained as to call for the killing of ONLY ONE federal judge. Seriously, however, I think you slightly mis-read my letter. The implied "threat", if you are inclined to call it that, would simply be that if domestic software writers are prohibited from exporting encryption software, they might be inclined (and have time for) writing the entire AsPol system into software. Once that happens, we won't have to worry about ITARs or any other governmental impediment. At that point, the danger is not to one specific federal judge, and not even just to all of them, but every government employee at every level, working for every jurisdiction. Judges, I presume, are quite familiar with accepting a sense of personal danger for the consequences of their bad decisions. It would be an entirely different situation, I suggest, if it were made clear to them that the fallout from their misbehavior would ultimately be visited on a few million people. And it would shock them to the core if it were explained that this could be done entirely legally, with the obvious exception of a few unidentifiable people who actually do the anonymous work. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Why Americans feel no compulsion to learn foreign languages
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:17 PM 3/27/96, Michael Helm wrote: >On Mar 27, 3:13am, Timothy C. May wrote: >> Americans are typically thousands of miles away from those speaking >> Japanese, Mandarin, Tagalog, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Spanish, Hindi, >> Talegu, and the hundreds of other languages. It is not at all clear what >> language Americans should pick as a "second language" to study. > >I don't really disagree with the conclusions drawn by this poster, or >with the quasi-economics argument he makes. However, I must say that >the above is completely wrong. MOST Americans live in large urban >areas, & as such are within seconds/footsteps of people whose native >languages are not English (or who don't have a single "native language", >but several!). There are probably _hundreds_ of languages spoken in the >San Francisco Bay Area. The school districts here routinely report double >digit languages in the school age population. And? Your point being? "All learning is economics," to paraphrase our noted saying about security. Because there are diverse groups within 100 miles away speaking a babel of languages, including a per cent or so each of Thai, Talegu, Mandarin, Vietnamese, and so on, do I understand your point that I should pick one of these languages and spend a year or so learning it well enough to say to one of these groups, "Hello, can you tell me which way to the train station?" My point is not against the learning of a foreign language, just that economic considerations _must_ play a role. (Of course, people are free to ignore economics and "follow their bliss." A friend of mine studied Sanskrit for several years, and I even spent some time studying some Old Icelandic a few decades ago.) My European friends usually study the language of their direct neighbors and important trading/scientific partners. English, German, French, typically. >There are 3 Spanish language channels (& another 2 ... "multiple >choice") on my tv cable system. That anglophones choose to tune them >out, or to not even notice the Noah's ark around them, says something >about this culture. "Says something about this culture." Insults aside, you are right. I will sign up with the local JC for a study of Vietnamese, just so I won't be ignoring this cornucopia of polyglotism. (One person communicated with me in private about this, saying that the international nature of the Internet is an ironic counterpoint to my point. So I promised this guy I would learn Hindi and Polish to better be able to use the Internet. Of course, this'll take me a few years, and then I'll no doubt find that I don't have any interest in talking to the people on the Net who speak in Hindi or Polish, but, what the hell, I will have reduced my "anglophone chauvinism quotient.") --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Tim's friend's mildly retarded son
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"tcmay(a)got.net" 22-MAR-1996 00:47:25.47 >At 11:17 PM 3/21/96, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: >> This topic's relevance to Cypherpunks, aside from the confirmations >>that you mentioned, is low... aside from that it's of interest to Extropians >>such as myself and Tim May. >In recent months, a self-appointed group of list members have taken upon >themselves to argue that _anything_ that does not have to do with certain >topics they find appropriate is "not related to crypto, so take it >elsewhere." Regrettably, most reasonable people have grown quiet about >anything that smacks of politics or ideology, leaving the field clear for >certain ranting lunatics. Umm... I was referring to the discussion in regards to whether "smart drugs" work or not, not the discussion on the FDA. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Admittedly, some of my comments with regards to the FDA's ultraconservative/better-safe-than-sorry (depending on whose side you take) policy can be extended to an analysis of the NSA's behavior - putting the brakes on cryptography even after it becomes useless to do so, and after it becomes _necessary_ for America's future (commerce et al). -Allen

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No Subject
by anon-remailer＠utopia.hacktic.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

:: Subject: HP ships full DCE internationally As I sit, somewhere not in North America, I can see a CD-Rom from Hewlett-Packard, which I've had since last year. Recently I received the following letter. I've attempted to retype its contents accurately. ---------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8< [HP Logo] Hewlett-Packard Company Software and Information Delivery Operation, SST 690 East Middlefield Road Mountain View, California 94043 415/968-9200 Dear HP-UX Support Customer, Hewlett-Packard has uncovered a bundling problem in the DCE-Core fileset that is on the October HP-UX Application Release 10.0 s700/800 Application CDs. These products were bundled such that they are not compliant with U.S. Government export regulations. The part numbers for the affected CDs and products are listed below. If you have updated your systems using these CDs or for the products listed on the October HP-UX Application Release Media, please update your system with the enclosed January HP-UX Application Release 10.0 s700/800 Application media, and destroy the October media. If you have not updated your systems with this media, please just destroy the October Application Release media and use the new enclosed Application media. If you require a replacement for the October HP-UX 10.0 s700/800 Application CD that has this bundling problem corrected, please contact your local support office to request shipment of the new CD. Hewlett-Packard apologises for any inconvenience you may experience due to this bundling issue. Sincerely [signed] Charles Henderson Software Information and Delivery Operations CD PART NUMBERS --------------- 24998-11710 SE application s700 10/95 24998-11711 SE application s800 10/95 B3782-10054 Trade application s700 10/95 B3920-13614 Trade application s800 10/95 PRODUCT NUMBERS --------------- 10.01 800 B3191A DCE CORE SRV MEDIA/DOCU INTL 10.01 800 B5162AA DCE 9000 Executive Client 10.01 800 B3519AA DCE QUICK START KIT INTL S800 10.01 800 B3923AA CICS/9000 Bundle Media & Manuals, Int'l 10.01 700 B2921A DCE Core Services International 10.01 700 B5162AA DCE 9000 Executive Client S700 10.01 700 B3519AA DCE Quickstart 700 Bndl Int'l Document P/N: 5964-5231 ---------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8< Excuse me, I just have to go and destroy that CD :-)

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Re: WSJ on Big Java Flaw
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:58 AM 3/26/96 -0500, John Young wrote: > Java was originally touted by Sun as a secure language. But > at least two other flaws have already been discovered in > the technology, including a less-serious problem uncovered > by the Princeton team last month. Sun's Ms. Mueller said > the problems have been correctable details in the way the > Java code is written, not problems with its basic design. Having worked on a secure OS, with a small security kernel etc. etc. etc. I realize that even those systems have bugs. The Java people will work out their bugs. Others will read their code and find more bugs. (It is to Sun's GREAT credit that they are releasing their source under a not very restrictive license.) Eventually, in several years, Java security will be ready for prime time. Of course, for really valuable things, or the really paranoid, you shouldn't connect your computer to a network. The top dog certificate key in SET is handled this way. Regards - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Frantz | The CDA means | Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 | lost jobs and | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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More on "Raised Awareness"
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:30 AM 3/27/96, Rich Graves wrote: >At some point in this exercise, though, we might be "raising awareness" >among the wrong people, to cite Tim May. I wouldn't want NAFTA, the WTO, >and so on enforcing ITAR. I'm glad to see that some people are internalizing this point about how "raised awareness" almost always results in new legislation. And new legislation, even if seemingly well-intentioned, almost always extends the tendrils of government into what were once ignored or private areas. There are many examples outside of crypto. Health care reform was the latest case of "raised awareness." Pornography access on the Net was another. The systemic reasons for this are clear. "Leaving well enough alone" and "Don't make waves" are old aphorisms that capture this sentiment. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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