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funny #1
by Perrin . 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A guy, a pig, and a dog are the survivors of a terrible shipwreck, and they find themselves stranded on a desert island. After being there = awhile, they get into a ritual of going to the beach every evening to watch=20 the sun go down. One particular evening the sky was red with beautiful=20 cirrus clouds, the breeze was warm and gentle - a perfect night for = romance! =20 Well, that pig started looking better and better and pretty soon the guy = rolled toward thepig and put his arm around it. The dog was not very=20 happy with this and growled fiercely at the guy, until he removed his = arm=20 from the pig. They continued to enjoy the sunsets together, but no more = cuddling. A few weeks passed by, and lo and behold, there was another=20 shipwreck. The only survivor was a beautiful young woman. She was in a = pretty bad way when they rescued her and they slowly nursed her back to=20 good health. When she was well enough they introduced her to their=20 evening beach ritual. It was another beautiful evening, red sky, cirrus clouds, warm gentle breeze, perfect for romance, the four of them lying there. The guy started getting 'those' ideas again, so he leaned over toward the girl=20 and said, "Um...would you mind taking the dog for a walk?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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ITAR personal use exemption
by Matt Blaze 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just happen to be heading to the airport shortly, and am looking forward to being among the first exports under the new rule... -matt ------- Forwarded Message Received: from research.att.com by nsa.tempo.att.com (8.6.10/4.7) id OAA17078; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:15:37 -0500 Received: from cs.cosc.georgetown.edu by research; Fri Feb 16 14:16:40 EST 1996 Received: from chair.georgetown.edu (chair.cosc.georgetown.edu) by cs.cosc.georgetown.edu (4.1/1a-eef) id AA00958; Fri, 16 Feb 96 14:13:43 EST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 14:13:43 EST From: denning(a)cs.cosc.georgetown.edu (Dorothy Denning) Message-Id: <9602161913.AA00958(a)cs.cosc.georgetown.edu> To: mab(a)research.att.com Subject: ITAR Amended to Allow Personal Use Exemption Cc: denning(a)cs.cosc.georgetown.edu In case you haven't heard ... Best regards, Dorothy - -------- Today's Federal Register contains a notice from the Department of State, Bureau of Political Military Affairs, announcing final rule of an amendment to the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR) allowing U.S. persons to temporarily export cryptographic products for personal use without the need for an export license. The product must not be intended for copying, demonstration, marketing, sale, re-export, or transfer of ownership or control. It must remain in the possession of the exporting person, which includes being locked in a hotel room or safe. While in transit, it must be with the person's accompanying baggage. Exports to certain countries are prohibited -- currently Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria. The exporter must maintain records of each temporary export for five years. See Federal Register, Vol. 61, No. 33, Friday, February 16, 1996, Public Notice 2294, pp. 6111-6113. Dorothy Denning ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Cypherpunks in Sydney (Australia) Meeting
by Greg_Rose＠sibelius.sydney.sterling.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I mentioned some time ago that if there was sufficient interest I'd organise a Sydney Cypherpunks get-together. It was supposed to be in mid-November :-(, but you can't have everything. In the absence of consultation with anyone, I've booked a small suburban chinese restaurant for the venue. This seems in keeping with other cypherpunks meetings (not that I've ever been to one...) Date: Wednesday December 6th. Time: 7:00pm Place: Mee Ton Restaurant 139 Concord Road Concord The restaurant is easy to get to, only 20 minutes by car from the city and easy to park. If driving out from the city along Paramatta Road, you just have to be careful not to turn onto the freeway. Concord Road is *second* and crosses back over the freeway. The restaurant is about 400 metres north of Paramatta Road, on the eastern side. It's also only a short walk from North Strathfield station. If enough people are using Public transport I can organise a pickup from (the main) Strathfield station (a little more convenient in terms of frequency of trains). I'm anticipating maybe ten-fifteen people. They have a nice, light banquet menu for $12 per head, everything included except alcohol. RSVP, please, by Friday the 1st, and tell me whether you are interested in a PGP key signing at the same time. I will post this to aus.org.auug, sage-au-nsw, sci.crypt. Any other suggestions appreciated, and don't hesitate to pass around the details. - -- Greg Rose INTERNET: greg_rose(a)sydney.sterling.com Sterling Software VOICE: +61-2-9975 4777 FAX: +61-2-9975 2921 28 Rodborough Rd. http://www.sydney.sterling.com:8080/~ggr French's Forest 35 0A 79 7D 5E 21 8D 47 E3 53 75 66 AC FB D9 45 NSW 2086 Australia. co-mod sci.crypt.research, USENIX Director. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBMLAX/6RQkCwJ0+ZNAQFU1AP/Y4d6RUieAKMoz4MJCeX5OXyhCNfTfrMp /szVqe2ICn+9F+T+Ggad1XKSsO3NBk1Lmo478NUYHuCDuMODSgM0YRxRo7SuEd9d joFtpUIAjBAs+e0beO7DI934XFSvDQini+YT2NxDtUtEM0c4fVh96oQyJguSnWP2 Mx8ZubrzoDs= =R65K -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Spin Control Alert (LI Newsday, 2/12/96)
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"declan+(a)CMU.EDU" "Declan B. McCullagh" 15-FEB-1996 01:33:25.17 >Since you don't understand the way Federal criminal charges work, >there's no reason I should take your argument seriously. (Hint: The >*U.S. Attorney*, or an AUSA, files charges, not you, me, or a random >"athiest.") How about a lawsuit by the atheist against the site? Since the CDA claims that such material is harmful, and tries to make it illegal, such a lawsuit would appear to have grounds - especially if the atheist has a child that is "surfing the Net." Now, they're unlikely to _win_, but the atheist can cost them some money _and_ make the CDA look stupid. If I were in the American Atheist Foundation or some such, I'd do such a lawsuit against a Christian Right organization that had supported the CDA. Of course, the selective enforcement will be a good argument in favor of the law being unconstitutional. Crypto relevance? Criminal laws aren't the only things that a crypto-anarchial system will make less effective. Civil lawsuits (under things like libel) also will be. I'd call this a good change. -Allen

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Re: anonymous age credentials, sharing of
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"samman-ben(a)CS.YALE.EDU" "Rev. Ben" 15-FEB-1996 20:05:34.89 >The only REAL way of authentication is biometrics. Anything else can be >swapped. But if you amputate someone's hand or retinas then they won't >work(check for things like blood flow, etc.) Actually, a simulation ought to work pretty well at fooling most extant devices, and any devices likely to be developed soon. Now, fooling the guards watching you at a secure site may be a problem (a hand up your sleeve?), as may getting someone else's biometric information in the first place. The latter gets into the area of cryptography since whoever has such information (other than the original possessor) is likely to hash it anyway. -Allen

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Re: A Cyberspace Independence Refutation
by peter honeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> If the Feds pulled the plug on the backbone, I can see that there > are a lot of people who would drag UUCP and pathalias out of the > closet, and the UUCP Mapping Project would live again. i don't know whether to laugh or cry over the prospect. peter

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Re: Online Zakat Payment: Religious tithe.
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:56 PM 2/16/96 EDT, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: > > >>My, my. For a group of people so uspet at taxes you certainly have faith in >>the ability of private individuals to generate the capital for things like >>the Manhattan Project and high-cost nuke delivery systems! > > Unfortunately, neither of these would take that much. A university with >competent physics, engineering, and chemistry departments could do the first; >smuggling could do the second. > -Allen Actually, I have enough background in all these areas, to the point where I think if I were given a plutonium "pit," I could probably implement the bomb in about 6 months of part-time tinkering. The main engineering problem would be finding/producing two different homogeneous explosives with reliably defined/measured detonation velocities, and calculating the shape of the "lenses" required to cover the pit, and then machining or casting the parts. (I'd probably also want to simulate the mechanical "impedance match" of the chemical explosive to the (dense) plutonium; and as I understand it they use the mechanical equivalent of a transformer to do the matching. Sorry, but I think in terms of electronics, not mechanics. Sue me.) BTW, I think I've already solved the problem of producing a few dozen absolutely simultaneous trigger explosions (+/- 100 nanoseconds) around the periphery at the lens foci, without using multiple electronic detonators. (in fact, a single blasting cap would do nicely.) "But the margins of this book are too small to contain it" Heh heh! Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com Klaatu Burada Nikto Something is going to happen. Something....Wonderful! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMSYVWfqHVDBboB2dAQH8KAP+PBsKYf6J94hU1FLMn/vny1IU827srMPz Hvr7CRuHwPmGKc6VkKwIRBHRZ9adRd9c75HNhi4T+JA/qO1sZX8Qxk+xQUy6Z0pS fx2HoPBQvEXjqkKpCfWWBKg/sXzu1J0XCmyqM3HXt8Cw0upYsHemQD/x+llDfYRM GDV+B/Wt8pw= =vyDu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: The Transparency Of Cyber-Nitrate
by an572010＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rush Graves <llurch(a)stanford.edu> writes: >> yawen(a)enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes: >> >> Alexander Baron <A_Baron(a)abaron.demon.co.uk> writes: >> >> In article <4ui6qj$bk5(a)news.enter.net> yawen(a)enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" >> >writes: >> > >> >> > texts on Hitler. You demonstrate another typical denier failing as >> >> > well. One of your >> >> > friends (according to your story) goofed. Insttead of blaming him, you >> >> > called someone who correctly pointed you to a valid source of >> >> > information a nasty name. >> >> > Where is your apology, Lyin' Al? >> > >> >> You really are one unpleasant person, aren't you Yale? You must meet an >> >> awful lot of "anti-Semites". >> > >> > Actually I meet very few outside of alt.revisionism. >> >> "Me too." I hardly believed these dinosaurs still existed a year ago. I >> think it's healthy to keep in mind just how unrepresentative the >> Nazihuggers are. >> >> The ZGram list and the rec.music.white-power vote are pretty good Liar. You know very well the rec.music.white-power vote was falsified. >> indicators that of the millions of people on the Internet, only a few >> hundred are seriously into this garbage. Liar. You know very well that Stormfront-L is not representative of net racismo. It appears unusually intelligent vs. usenet racists is because of Don Black's moderation. There aren't constant interruptions by Andrew Mathis, Mike Beebe, ara, scoop, sexy Jeanne Kapowski, etc., threatening to rape, mutilate, poison and murder racists, thanks to Mr. Black. You also know very well that numbers of mailing list subscribers do not translate to active interest in a newsgroup. How popular would comp.cypherpunks be if it was created and propagated? FAR more popular than anyone would expect from a mere 1,000 or so current subscribers. In fact, this is your's and tcmay, Sameer, shamrock, etc., duty to write a RFD and CFV for an UNMODERATED comp.cypherpunks newsgroup. On second thought, you SHOULDN'T participate because you censor by moderation yourself as a power trip. You know, in hindsight, I think I hurt the r.m.w-p effort more than helped, I only posted to usenet about it and avoided mail. I shouldn't have respected cypherpunks enough to refuse to follow your practice of trolling against racists on the mailing list, I should have confined my campaign to cypherpunks. Another example, does the 40 or so subscribers to coder-punks indicate there is very little interest in coding for crypto-@nonymity?!?????? >> I spent about an hour today reading Ingrid/Zundel's 93-page treatise on >> "Background and Detailed Chronology of Ernst Zundel Persecution," which >> Ingrid was so kind as to send me (OK, she didn't exactly know it was >> me...). Near the end of the subsection called "The First Trial -- >> 'Spreading False News," I found a very encouraging couple of paragraphs, >> which I'll quote here. Liar. Either post your entire copy to alt.revisionism or prove yourself a lying capitali$t bastard who's jealous about Zuendel because you are a J$wish preppie homo$exual righti$(t) ri(c)h pig. >> A year after Zuendel's trial a 200 page book entitled "Hate on >> Trial: The Zuendel Affair, the Media and Public Opinion in Canada" was >> published.... >> >> "Hate on Trial" sought to measure through scientific polling data >> the effect of the massive coverage of the Zuendel trial on public >> opinion in Canada concerning Jews, the Holocaust and Germans. "The >> central motivation for our research project," wrote the authors, "was >> to find out what truly happened in the mind of the Canadian public. Did >> support for the Nazi perspective grow as a result of the trial and as a >> result of the media coverage of the trial? Did more Canadians become >> prejudiced against Jews as a result of the affair? How were attitudes >> towards Germans affected? What specifc roles did television and the >> press have in shaping Canadian attitudes? Were the media as harmful as >> many people, including journalists, feared?" (p. 31) >> >> The researchers found that news coverage of the trial: >> >> "...did more harm to the image of Germans than of Jews... Two thirds >> of Canadians did not change their opinions as a result of the >> extensive coverage of Mr. Zuendel's sensational seven week trial, but >> of those who did, the vast majority became less sympathetic to Germans >> and more sympathetic to Jews, the authors conclude... [W]hile >> television had a strong emotional impact, the effect was entirely >> opposite to what many people feared. 'People who were heavy, heavy >> television viewers said they became more sympathetic to Jews,' >> Professor Conrad Winn of Carleton University said." (Globe & Mail, >> March 22, 1986) >> >> False "German v. Jew" conflict aside (in fact most Germans repudiate Mr. >> Zuendel's propaganda), I find it very encouraging that Zuendel largely >> failed to troll up support. The public isn't as stupid as some people >> think. Prove it, liar. I can prove the opposite with just these examples: racist terrorism, Oklahoma City, Vipers, J$ws, Microsoft, Holocaust, capitali$m, flying saucers, penny stocks, etc. >> The full citation of the referenced work is: >> >> Weimann, Gabriel and Conrad Winn. Hate on Trial: the Zundel affair: the >> media and public opinion in Canada. New York: Mosaic Press, 1986. >> >> I'll probably go pick it up at the Law Library to see how faithful >> Ingrid/Zundel's review of the book is. I don't see why they'd lie about >> this particular bit of information. Why do you pretend to be Ingrid in your latest post? Are you jealous of the pretty woman you'll never have because of your difficulties with those sort of things? --****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION*** Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED. Please, report inappropriate use to abuse(a)anon.penet.fi For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to help(a)anon.penet.fi If you have any problems, address them to admin(a)anon.penet.fi

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funny #2
by Perrin . 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A man who smelled like a distillery flopped on a subway seat next to a = priest. =20 The man's tie was stained, his face was plastered with red lipstick, and = a=20 half empty bottle of gin was sticking out of his torn coat pocket. he = opened=20 his newspaper and began reading. After a few minutes the disheveled guy = turned=20 to the priest and asked, "Say, father, what causes arthritis?" "Mister, it's caused by loose living, being with cheap, wicked women, = too much=20 alcohol and a contempt for your fellow man." "Well I'll be damned." the drunk muttered, returning to his paper. The priest, thinking about what he had said, nudged the man and = apologized. =20 "I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to come on so strong. How long did you = have=20 arthritis?" "I don't have it father. I was just reading here that the Pope does." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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re: Moderation, Tim, Sandy, me, etc * Reputation Capital
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I found this post from Mr Gilmore deeply disturbing, and I thought I'd take this chance to, as someone recently said, "Fly with the Eagles." John Gilmore said: >Tim, the Cypherpunks have chosen to follow Sandy's lead for this >month. I'll admit I made it easy for them, but the results are >conclusive. There are 1311 addresses in the cypherpunks list today; >42 in the unedited list; and 19 in the flames list. Forty people >cared enough to read every posting; the other thousand either wanted >to try the experiment -- or didn't care enough to send an email >message. Which, as we all know, is a very low threshold. Careful. The statistics you are throwing around here are misleading. So if 1350, say, subscribers were subscribed to an unmoderated cypherpunks list, what would that tell you? As has been pointed out, beaten to death, and generally repeated: there are already filtered c'punks lists. By filtering the main list, you are just making your own life difficult and corrupting the reputation capital of "cypherpunks", and the results are far from conclusive. >all I want is something that works. The cypherpunks list was unusable >for this kind of discussion, only a month ago. It's usable now. > >I'm definitely bugged by the community's attitude toward my >"censorship". Rather than being glad that someone, anyone, was doing >something about the major problem on the list, 99% of the reaction was >to create even more ill-considered, emotional flamage. *I* didn't >make the signal/noise get worse at that point -- *you-all* did. Again, maybe that 99% is trying to tell you something? Maybe there is some provocation for this outpouring of "emotional flamage." Also, here you claim that the s/n ratio is worse than before, but above you said that the "moderation" has made the list usable. These two statements seem contradictory. >Perhaps at that point I should have shut down the list, as Lucky is >now suggesting. "Asking the list what to do" was clearly not a useful >option. Sandy cared enough about the community to make some concrete Not a useful option? Why not? If there aren't any ideas left in this community, I'm with Lucky. Pull the plug. >gratifying. You-all remind me of a passage from Booker T. >Washington's book _Up From Slavery_, describing what happened on the >night that news of the Emancipation Proclamation reached the South: <quote snipped> >Most of the people on the list haven't bothered to face that freedom. >Your de-facto "leaders" have faced it for you. It is a more serious "You clearly don't take your freedom seriously. Now try a month without it." >Start a mailing list on another site! Move this list to somewhere! >Create and nurture an alt group! Make an independent moderated list My problem with this is that you are currently holding the reputation capital tied up in the name "cypherpunks" hostage. If hosting this discussion forum has grown so tiring, then you are free to pull the plug in a heartbeat. I've heard a few even go so far as to ask "what's in a name" when others get so upset about the list called "cypherpunks" being moderated. Well, I'll tell you. Reputation capital. Thats why so many lurkers have waded through the muck for so long. I've seen the crown jewels that have surfaced here in the past, and spread the word. "Cypherpunks" was where the action was. It was fast and loose and inhabited by a prolific core of sharp minds. Old memes die hard, as is evidenced every time we see a warning about the "Goodtimes Virus." >The experiment will be over in a few weeks. Who's going to take over >deciding how to run the list, and running it? As I said, if you don't want the list anymore, pull the plug. It will pop up again elsewhere and you need never worry about it again. This post from Mr Gilmore certainly is revealing. Perhaps inevitably, he has assumed the traditional paternal role of authority when its motives and/or power to regulate is questioned. Golem

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