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John Gilmore the fascist cocksucker
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) John Gilmore is a fascist cocksucker Sandy Sandfort is a censorous motherfucker John Gilmore is a fascist cocksucker Sandy Sandfort is a censorous motherfucker John Gilmore is a fascist cocksucker Sandy Sandfort is a censorous motherfucker John Gilmore is a fascist cocksucker Sandy Sandfort is a censorous motherfucker Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re: [rant] Re: Censorship on cypherpunks
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:44 PM 11/5/96 -0800, Sean Roach wrote: >May I remind you that if you want to leave this country, all you have to do >is board a plane. Many people have suggested similar things about various >groups for about two centuries. The major difference between this list and >this government is that it is easier to start a new list. However since governments attempt to maintain a geographical monopoly and there are a very limited number of them, it is not possible to find another country you can enter as a matter of right so you may not be able to escape. In contrast there are millions of private organizations of various sorts (corporations, etc) and it is trivial to find one to join if you like. DCF

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Re: Privacy Without Tears
by lunaslide＠loop.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>At 05:53 PM 2/10/96 -0800, Lunaslide wrote: > >>If everyone not only has a link to these pages in text, but also has their >>"PGP secured!", or similar little graphic on their pages, linked to these >>sites as well, it would save a lot of people a lot of redundant explaining >>and it would help spread the word about PGP like wildfire to the masses. > >I like that a lot! A nifty graphic would be the old-fashioned engraving of a >padlock on the O'Reilly book about PGP. There have also been graphics handily prepared by a member of this list. Regretfully, I forget the URL and who it was from. Anybody got that for us again please? lunaslide "Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - -- Abraham Lincoln On the meridian of time there is no injustice, only the poetry of motion creating the illusion of truth and drama. Henry Miller ________________________________________________________________ Digitally sign your mail too! -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCPAzEX3QEAAAEEAOGQjhnqGH29pO1WDaXs5GFOVPhCBWyYEk9XEwRmscjveWzH AhA6DeOA480zWNqQURyqE2yPmR8WzT+OXYqmeiQiycKyFA41Vs/Ruf+gXXxe7uXS L5BK3K8oKbfoH0D5/TAkMT4r6BprXFQz4pFc3gY2SSaSPElpMjKHaKBsRsyRABEB AAG0HUplZmYgQ29ubiA8bHVuYXNsaWRlQGxvb3AuY29tiQCVAwUQMRffHzKHaKBs RsyRAQGNhwP9E9xEZ9/LCKnhgtnrqgD7pDoXG2pCy8FoyfFjoImGkG+jF1wELXmB Z0mf8F8CgYkys0mif1XeGDMelr1gzlZAm6LgQt4kcvztMW/aRLn18QP+iwltVT/L p8D37mitOjvuk46sWgAChIaPPPIeg/EaYQjQkmlpWKsEYIoTRy+E8mU= =4Gku -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Choices
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:05 AM 2/11/96, "A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security" >Think I have been consistant - am FOR things which add to my choices and >AGAINST those which reduce the choices available. In general I do not >mind paying a delta for increased choice so long as it is small No, I don't think you're consistent. "Tim's Fine Televison Sets" does not like the idea of having to put CC (and, soon, V-Chips) in its t.v.s. Men with guns are telling him he must comply, or else. Your "am FOR things which add to my choices" ignores the fact that mandatory closed-caption hardware is an infringement on the basic property rights of someone who offers products for sale. Those who want CC devices, or V-chip devices, or automatic text-to-speech converters are of course free to buy them, if someone is selling them. They are not free to demand that my widget include them. --Tim [This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act] And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why don't you boys just come on in and fuck them right here in my house - I'll just watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's getting old. I say we should fuck him." So the two daughters got him drunk and screwed him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got them pregnant....Onan really hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while his brother got all the credit, so he pulled out before he came....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents, your pet dog, or the farm animals, unless God tells you to. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]

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More NIST presentations available
by pfarrell＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've collected more presentations and comments for last week's NIST GAK meeting. I've got CDT's presentation and new policy response, VTW's presentation, and David Lesher's post from talk.politics.crypto. htpp://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/nistmeeting.html is the starting point. If you seem more, please forward it to me. Thanks Pat Pat Farrell grad student http://www.isse.gmu.edu/students/pfarrell Infor. Systems and Software Engineering, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA PGP key available via finger or request #include standard.disclaimer

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crypto confrontation
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

regarding the NIST policies on cryptography being shaped at this moment, an idea occurred to me. one of the most important aspects of protest is getting the public to be on your side. right now the american public is pretty indifferent about the cryptography issue, but there could be some very graphic situations that would help bring it out into the limelight even more than it is at the moment, and make anyone promoting government key escrow seem like the bad guys. the minor protest going on with the Perl t-shirts is really fantastic (last count, ~700 shirts out the door), but what really brings an issue to the forefront of american consciousness (i.e. the media) is *confrontation*. picketers in front of buildings clashing with police is almost guaranteed to get a little media coverage, almost no matter what the issue. now, some day we might reach this point with crypto rights. it would be quite a spectacle. (I'm sure people would argue against it here, but IMHO even a simple demonstration of a few dozen people might do more for widespread public consciousness of the issue than a million lines of code on an FTP site..) -- in the meantime here's another possibility: suppose that a software company intentionally set up a situation where they are exporting a cryptographic algorithm out of the country. and they have filming crews on hand when the bad-guy customs agents or whoever stop the truck at the border and confiscate the software. have the reporters asking questions like "why are you confiscating this"? "answer: this is classified a munition". this could really be a fantastic segment for Hard Copy or any of the other trashy tabloid shows. just a confrontration for confrontation's sake, with nothing resolved, just a lot of people pissed off at each other, and the end result the viewer coming away saying, "what a disgrace!! somebody should do something!!" I mean, imagine a segment where you see the customs officers pointing guns at a truck driver or whatever (that would *really* be optimal), and them breaking into the truck to pull out the software. the reporter could say, "what's so deadly that's in the box??" and pull out a computer disk. sound bites of people outside the country saying how they want to use the crypto. a nice businessman in a tie, in the middle of an office with hardworking suits and ties. "we're not criminals!! we're trying to *protect* ourselves from criminals!! but your government won't let us!!" other sound bites: joe sixpack goes and buys crypto package from Germany because he doesn't have to put up with illegality and uncle sam. shots of massive Microsoft and an executive or programmer complaining how they can't put the code they want to in their programs, that users *want*, that would solve these horrible hacker problems that the country is having, because uncle sam is interfering. other scenes: businessmen calculating how much the U.S. software market (which, BTW, we are premiere in the world in) has already lost in sales, or could potentially lose on the information highway. "my company personally had [x] ready but could not release it. [y] was delayed [z] years for approval. we estimate we have lost [a] and have had to hold off hiring as much as [b] people". (the actual numbers should be as close to reality as possible, but from a PR point of view don't even matter!!) much made of how the Internet committees are now ignoring the US recommendations that require escrowed crypto. "the U.S. may ironically become only a inconsequential rest stop on the information superhighway of the future" much FUD about how the US could become a "backwater in cyberspace" because of these policies. etc!! lots of hype about how cyberspace will become the very basis of future global economies, and that anybody who opts out will be slitting their own throat. also, crypto being absolutely essential to secure transactions. in fact, if we play this right we could even get a new kind of semi-conventional wisdom into that easily-manipulated thing called the public consciousness: "hackers can be foiled by good crypto. the government is killing good crypto. therefore hackers are proliferating because of the government!!" plus, you could throw in the Phil Zimmermann thing too, although that might be overdoing it. as for all the bill of rights angle and those kinds of things, those could be put in there, but remember that people generally hate lawyers <g> -- actually, I'm actually rooting for PRZ to be indicted. an acquittal would be extremely costly, but it could really bring the key issues to the forefront of the american or even world consciousness. hell, it would beat the OJ trial any day in my book!! and in fact it might be just the ticket to the kind of mainstream journalism that could really tip the balance of public opinion. (the press is pretty sleazy, I admit, but it is a *monster* machine that one might be able to trick into working for you!! in fact, I would consider that quite the ultimate hack in social engineering!! any weenie hacker can con a phone repairman, but can you trick the whole U.S. media system into telling the public what you want it to hear? sounds like a real challenge to me!!) and BTW, I am aware of how DJBernstein and others have various lawsuits and FOIAs against the government. but I don't think these are really penetrating Joe Sixpack's brain, when that is really where the battle lies. and Joe Sixpack doesn't understand esoteric things like the bill of rights, the constitution etc.-- but he does understand pictures of police confronting someone who doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong and is arguing in favor of something good for america. you might think, "what does public opinion have to do with government?" answer: a lot. if in a public poll, a large majority were in favor of releasing crypto regulation, you can bet that the "which way is the wind blowing NOW?!?!?!" politicians (that is, all of them, <g>) would be scrambling to appease the public. even Clinton has a long record of merely going with what is politically expedient. I can fully imagine him defying key law-enforcement agencies if the public was more in support of good crypto. and, if we can get scenes like what I'm talking about, that day may become a reality. I continue to believe that the way to really hammer the issue and get what we want may amount to a kind of "psychological terrorism": "propaganda" on television that promotes our cause to joe sixpack, and simply honestly tells what is at stake. (that's the beauty of our position, is that even the simple truth is very powerful propaganda-- in fact that's how you can generally tell if you are on a side that is likely to win in the long run!!). there are many here who will argue for less confrontational approaches, about not getting anyone upset, about not trying to paint anyone as a bad guy, about just opting out of a "hopeless" political process, about how the whole US system is so screwed up anyway that we're all pretty much screwed when it comes down to it, etc. ad nauseaum, ... but IMHO a pound of nonconfrontration is worth a feather of confrontation in the long run. and I continue to believe the confrontation, while a bit messy and unpleasant at times, will really get the ultimate result that we want: (1) widespread public consciousness on the issue, (2) widespread support of our side. again, the code distribution is great, but in the long term, I continue to believe that public opinion is ultimately what runs a government, and a tyrannical government cannot exist without the tacit support of the population. I applaud the Perl t-shirt sellers for their great victory but suggest that greater victories lie in waiting. how about a demonstration of a bunch of people wearing the shirts, for starters? --Vlad Nuri

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Re: itar question
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:08 PM 9/11/95 -0400, you wrote: >If I create a set of patches to a PD or GNU software package (i.e. telnetd, >httpd) to support encryption (in particular SSL), can i put the patches up >on an ftp site, Or would i be in violation of itar, and therefore risk >getting hauled off by the feds? (i'm a us citizen living/working in the >states). If you create them in the states, and export them, and they contain crypto, you can be busted and convicted. If you put them on an ftp site without preventing or at least discouraging foreigners from accessing them, you can be busted, but you've at least got a potentially interesting court case about freedom of speech and the press, etc., for which you will need _very_ good lawyers unless either a) Phil Zimmermann gets indicted and acquitted first or b) you don't mind losing. If you do b) before Phil gets his day in court (as opposed to his months and months of grand jury), you risk creating a precedent that can help the Bad Guys convict him. If you create them in the states, and they contain hooks to call crypto, but don't actually contain the crypto themselves, then there's a question of whether they are components of a munition or technical data therefor, or whether they're just code that calls subroutines named "SSL_init()", "DES()", "RSA()", etc., which is behavior that's at least been threatened with FUD, but may be defendable in court. Your case is definitely stronger if your code is public domain (by the ITAR definitions, which are rather different than the copyright-related definitions), and of course if it's part of a working system of purely non-munitions code that just happens to have routines like "Do_Everything_Slowly()", "Reliability_Supporting_Algorithm(), and "SUPDUP_Simulation_Library" -- might even be fun to write a library like that, though I suppose certain companies might be upset if you called your Really_Special_Arithmetic library RSAREF :-) #--- # Bill Stewart, Freelance Information Architect, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # Phone +1-510-247-0664 Pager/Voicemail 1-408-787-1281 #---

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Elliptic Curve Public Key Crypto available
by Mike Rosing 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

in the cypherpunks ftp site /pub/cypherpunks/ciphers are 2 ascii files. One contains code and the other contains documentation: eliptic.src and elliptic.doc. The code portion is a cat'ed block of files: headers, C sources and a set of prime numbers. The documentation attempts to explain the math, but it does help if you already know number theory. It hopefully isn't necessary. The code is a specific implementation of one particular type of math. It violates no known patents. It appears to work. The academics claim that elliptic curves over Galois Fields are really secure. Preliminary testing bears this out, changing one bit of input gives uniformly distributed "random" output. Previous to the availabilty of 100 MHz processors this method of public key crypto was ridculously slow. The only versions were laboratory curiosities implemented in ASIC hardware. Code, if it exists, is not in the public domain. The code is based on several papers (some 15 references are listed in the doc file, 6 are more directly important) and a couple of books. It includes optimal normal basis math, elliptic curve math, and public key secret sharing. With 128 bit symmetric encryption, a 226 bit field is more than sufficient to hide it. I believe it is really strong crypto. I did not invent anything. I just implemented a few textbook examples that nobody else has. Since it's from public domain sources, and it's now public domain software, it can be freely used. You get what you pay for. Code is a living thing. It takes lots of people lots of time to make any code useful. The purpose of this code is to show that there is more than one way to create public key cryptosystems and to bring academic discussion into the everyday realm of real world problems. I suggest you get a copy to work with before it becomes illegal ;-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike

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DSS patent license
by rschlafly＠attmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>> RSA Data Security, Inc. >>> today announced that it is now licensing patents for the Digital Signature >>> Standard (DSS), the U.S. government standard for digital signatures. >> >> I believe someone was suing the U.S. government on the grounds that the >> public signature standard wasn't supposed to require proprietary >> technology. Has this gone anywhere yet? >> >> -- >> Eli Brandt >> eli+(a)cs.cmu.edu Yes, I had such a lawsuit. No, it didn't go anywhere in the courts, but the feds did eventually cave in to the principal demand of my suit: That the DSA patent be made available to anyone on a royalty-free basis. So how is it that RSADSI and Cylink/CKC claim you need licenses to their patents to use DSS? Because they have other patents. I have another lawsuit directed at those patents. Stay tuned. Roger Schlafly rschlafly(a)attmail.com

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Re: Brand e-cash implementation?
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Bryce Wilcox <wilcoxb(a)land.cs.Colorado.EDU> > Could someone point me to Brand's electronic money protocol? I have heard of > it and would like to learn more. If it is a discussable topic then please > someone try to convince me that it is better than Chaum's or > Chaum's-plus-anonymity-both-ways, or some other candidate for E-Money > Protocol Which Has Official Cypherpunk Blessing. <URL:http://ganges.cs.tcd.ie/mepeirce/Project/Mlists/brands.html> has a good collection of earlier discussions on Brands' cash, as well as pointers to Brands' work itself. Brands' home page, <URL:http://www.cwi.nl/~brands> has a long list of advantages which his system has over Chaum's original cash proposals, mostly technical in terms of efficiency and provability. Brands' and Chaum's systems have similar anonymity properties so I don't see much to choose between them on political grounds. Brands tends to work in the context of off-line systems with "observer" chips which prevent double spending. But his protocols can be used in other payment environments as well. Hal Finney

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