- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

RE: [p2p-hackers] p2p in some place or other
by Serguei Osokine 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

On Tuesday, December 13, 2005 Michael Rogers wrote: > I believe eMule allows the uploader to assign different priorities > to different files - I'd like to be able to do this in Gnutella, to > make the rarer (or better) content on my node easier to find... Tha is more like "easier to download", but I see what you're saying. Yes, at some point I used to place hight hopes on this method, basically thinking that the transfer rates for the rare content can be improved at the expense of the popular one. Popular content can be found at lots of places anyway, so penalizing it should not hurt all that much; for me the goal was to equalize the download rates for all content regardless of its popularity. So if improving the rare content download speed would make the widely distributed content transfers a bit slower (because the systemwide cumulative uplink bandwidth is a scarce resource, after all), so be it. Unfortunately the statistical research of the P2P systems (the one that I've already quoted in this thread) shows that from the uploader standpoint the prioritization of rare vs popular content does not cover a very significant percentage of all upload situations. The typical upload scenario is not only "some popular, some rare, so give the rare more bandwidth". Just as widespread is "many rare uploads from one node", in which case changing their relative priorities is pointless, and also "rare upload from a single node", in which case no matter what this node does, the speed is going to be substandard. And let me reemphasize this again - these scenarios seem to be very common. Essentially the download speed for the rare content is limited by the uplink rates of the nodes with rare content, even if all the nodes are always on and spend just a small percantage of their online time downloading. For popular content, you can have very fast downloads in such a case; you can even saturate your downlink if you wish. But for rare content, you're still stuck with whatever is the uplink rate of a single node that has this file. As the nodes start spending more time on line, this disparity becomes more and more pronounced no matter how you prioritize the uploads. And seeing this causes the user frustration on a significant percentage of all downloads (on everything that is in the long tail). Best wishes - S.Osokine. 13 Dec 2005. -----Original Message----- From: p2p-hackers-bounces(a)zgp.org [mailto:p2p-hackers-bounces@zgp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Rogers Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:25 AM To: Peer-to-peer development. Subject: Re: [p2p-hackers] p2p in some place or other Serguei Osokine wrote: > And the reason for this is quite understandable - if most of > the content exists in just one or two copies, what good are the swarm > downloaders and other marvelous instruments of progress? This single > copy that you need might be on a single host behind the modem in > Albania, the host might go off-line at any moment, and to make it > more fun, it might be trying to upload five other files (different > files, mind you) to five other people at the same time. I believe eMule allows the uploader to assign different priorities to different files - I'd like to be able to do this in Gnutella, to make the rarer (or better) content on my node easier to find, almost like a recommendation system. Cheers, Michael _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list p2p-hackers(a)zgp.org http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers _______________________________________________ Here is a web page listing P2P Conferences: http://www.neurogrid.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/PeerToPeerConferences _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list p2p-hackers(a)zgp.org http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers _______________________________________________ Here is a web page listing P2P Conferences: http://www.neurogrid.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/PeerToPeerConferences ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

1 0

[Politech] The NYPD can take photos of you -- but you can't turn your lens on them [fs]
by Declan McCullagh 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

What thuggish behavior. Kudos to the Village Voice for publicizing this. I've been accosted (though not arrested) for taking photos on public sidewalks/streets in Washington, DC. The two times that come to mind were before 9/11. Photos of the Feds in question: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-5/capitol-police.html http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-5/pennsylvania-ave-setup-cop.html -Declan -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Politech Submission: The NYPD wants to take your picturebbut beware of turning your lens on the cops Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:43:35 -0400 From: John Albino <jalbino(a)jwalbino.com> To: declan(a)well.com >From the Village Voice of April 10: "Watching the Detectives "The NYPD wants to take your pictureB-but beware of turning your lens on the cops" <http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0615,ferguson,72804,5.html> "But police evidently aren't so keen on surveillance when the cameras are turned on themB-particularly when those cameras show them abusing free-street-parking privileges. "On March 27, two volunteers from the advocacy group Transportation Alternatives were detained for taking pictures of police officers' private cars, which were parked on the sidewalk outside the Fifth Precinct in Chinatown. The volunteers say they were held and questioned at the precinct for about 20 minutes and instructed to erase the pictures. ""It was intimidating. I was afraid they were going to arrest me," says Brian Hoberman, 37, who works as a researcher for the city's Rent Guidelines Board." -- John Albino mailto:jalbino(AT)jwalbino.com _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

1 0

Re: [tor-talk] blocked exit node IP because of spam
by grarpamp 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

> anonymously donate Well, very few places take cash or money order in the mail. Call them stupid to not take the money. Then there's AML with bitcoin, etc. > a persistent nym Building a persistent nym is handy if you wish to establish such a personage for compartemented tasks, etc. However, there are linkable nyms and unlinkable ones. Advocating that users or sites evolve to support only linkable nyms is not a good idea. For example, the 'invite' or 'cell number' type nym systems are an example of terrible privacy policy. People need the ability to create new, unlinked, taint free, accounts whenever they want. They many need more than one persona, or to come back as a fresh incarnation of themselves when up against unwarranted/irrational dislike. > But no practical software infrastructure exists for [nym tech]. Linkable nyms are worthless for some people and purposes, so I've no problem with that lack. If I ran a system, I would allow signups from anywhere, no 'recovery' email, no name, no cell, no geoip. Nothing but username, password, and a few strong captchas to keep out the bots. Maybe even a time delay (n days) to calm down the impulse users. AND definitely... a policy that allows me to nuke misbehaving accounts at will. Because let's be honest, if you've got the helpdesk cycles to learn all about VPN's, scrape proxy lists, scrape Tor, sink ip's etc... you've surely got it to sink accounts on verifiable abuse reports. Come on people, hitting 'delete' just isn't all that hard, especially when your policy permits it. Do NOT penalize those who need multiple random unlinked accounts by blocking ip's, making up nym systems, etc. Penalize the accounts that act up. They are the bad ones, not the former. > This isn't something the Tor Project needs to fix except through > continued marketing and education. I would actually donate much more to Tor/EFF project if I could earmark it for a formal emissary to talk with some of the sites I've seen implementing bad policy. And hopefully report back to me with the positive results ... > I'd suggest emailing the administrator of the forums you're having > trouble with ... and explain what Tor is ... ... because when I do (under a separate unlinkable nym of course), I end up ignored as the expendable small guy. > Tor is more of a hack to give back some privacy. To bring things > more in line with the romantic image of the Internet. Because > people want to see the Internet as a nice place where people go > to share ideas Exactly! And when I can't use these sites in perfectly good, responsible, creative and nice ways... because they have implemented crap blocking policies... it pisses me the fuck off. Anonymous != evil. That is what we need to be teaching. _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk(a)lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

None
by Daniel Nexon 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

irtheory-owner(a)yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [irtheory] War ain't beanbag. Irony is conserved. Reply-To: irtheory(a)yahoogroups.com > > At 3:37 PM +0100 6/13/04, Lee James wrote: >> I'd like to hear how children who werent old enough to pronounce the >> colour were 'reds' who were rightly tortured (apparently) in your >> view, as well as the many women raped and tortured at the hands of >> SOA graduates. > > Funny how "liberals" always do the debits and not the credits in > these grotesque calculations. Shall we count the > several-orders-of-magnitude number of starved (*and* butchered) > children in various Marxist "paradises" around the world, too? I > thought not. It wouldn't be "fair". The quotation marks here, I assume, are a disclaimer. Liberalism is not Marxism. Nor, for that matter, is support for social democracy. I don't see how antipathy towards the right-wing dictatorships that committed gross violations of human rights against opponents seeking peaceful change or political liberalization translates into having to champion Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or whomever. > >> I'd also be keen to see evidence of this free-market success of >> which you talk, because it isn't in central america for the >> countless millions in poverty. > > Freedom, market or otherwise, isn't about the fool's errand of forced > income redistribution, which is, invariably, what actually causes > famine and tragedy. Why do so many on your side of this argument use definitional fiat to wind up rationalizing Pinochet's reign of terror, Guatemala's genocide against the Mayans, an so on? Indeed, freedom, on face, isn't about arbitrary imprisonment or torture. Is taxation for social goods, which often involves income redistribution, an equivalent violation of freedom? I'm not so sure. Income redistribution in the US did not cause famine and tragedy, nor in the UK, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Denmark, etc. It seems to me famine and/or tragedy were direct results, however, of the policies put into place by many graduates of the SOA. > > I prefer to think about the McDonald's paradox: No country that has a > McDonald's has attacked another. :-). We'll see how long *that* > stands up. Already happened. Kosovo campaign. > As for "democracy" somehow being magical, remember that > Athens brought on the Peloponnesian war, not Sparta. I'm not sure what this has to do with the supposed democratic peace. > >> I'm not sure that it is defensive to defend a country against its >> own people, when europe did so it was called colonisation. > > Yawn. When Europe did it it was called "economics". A word you seem > to be unfamiliar with. When their economic interests were attacked > (First the Portuguese, then the Spanish, then The Dutch, then the > English), surprise, they won. See Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel", A remarkably flawed book, deployed in an even more remarkably strange way here. To wit: > for details. Eventually, having won all these mostly defensive wars, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These would be? The goal of the Portuguese, the Spanish, and the Dutch, for example, was to secure monopolies through military coercion... often, in the process, breaking apart other European powers' monopolies (e.g., the Dutch struggle against Portugal and Spain). --- Daniel Nexon Assistant Professor of Government / School of Foreign Service Georgetown University Washington, DC 202-687-2273 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/_tgrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/irtheory/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: irtheory-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0