- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Irono-troll (was: Re: The Utility of Privacy)
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:58 PM 11/18/96 -0600, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >A troll using nobody(a)huge.cajones.com writes in reply to Sandy Sanfort a >lot of dismissal of past tragedies resulting from privacy violations. >Hir consistent viewpoint seems to be that protecting ones privacy has no >value. Then sie has the temerity to ask > >> BTW, are you operating under your True Name? > >My ironometer is absolutely pegged. Mine did too. It is the most amusing exchange I've seen in a long while. An extremely stable nym arguing for privacy against an anonymous remailer arguing that it isn't important. It makes up for all the trash talk and references to sexual orientation that the juveniles have been posting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The lottery is a tax on | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | those who can't do math. | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | - Who 1st said this? | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Stolen PC has Credit-Card accounts data
by dwiley＠pcy.mci.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Might wana check out http://www.usatoday.com/money/mds7.htm. It seems to me that things like this are a bigger threat than actual attacks by wire. But I guess Visa was not concerned about their physical security. Oh well.....To bad for the 314,000 people. Gota love security. To bad it sounds like the person that stole the PC had little or no knowladge of what was on the PC. I love this line..... "Melancon said the account information wasn't encoded but was in compressed form and not easy for someone outside the Visa system to read." So I guess uncompress or gunzip might work..:) Dan

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Used to Be
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Used to be that if you wanted dirty words or pictures, you had to go to Paris. Used to be that if you wanted Nazis, you had to go to Deutschland. Used to be that if you wanted to know how to blow things up, you had to go to the US Government Printing Office. Used to be that if you wanted racists, you had to go to Alabama. Used to be that if you wanted commies, you had to go to Moscow (or at least the LSE). Used to be that if you wanted garrulous bores, you had to go to you local watering hole. Used to be that if you wanted child molesters you had to go to your local public school. Used to be that if you wanted a cop you had to go to the nearest doughnut shop. Now you can get all of the above and more from the privacy of your own home on the Internet. DCF

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Re: "Right to Privacy" and Crypto
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Just cleaning up old responses to old messages: Sometimes I will see long articles on subpoenas, contempt of court, and compelled testimony in which no one mentions the fact that the only sanction used is a little bit of imprisonment (two years seems to be the max). That's for things you know. Since software can be made harder to compel than people, a properly configured system (sort of like a spendthrift trust where you can't get at it when compelled) may allow you to dodge sanctions entirely. Once we get better at human programming, it should be possible to make our nervous system a secure system that can't respond when coerced. This can already be done by conscious self programming in individuation. I certainly try to do that. Studies of the effects of North Korean brainwashing on different types of POWs showed a wide variability in susceptibility. Likewise studies of Moonie brainwashing. Political "moderates" with little or no ideology find it hard to resist coercion. "You can't fight something with nothing." In Korea, the prisoners from Turkey, proved impossible to brainwash. They had a mental toughness, a tradition of self posession, and a tolerance for physical discomfort that strengthened their defenses. Most U.S. Moonie recruits were from squishy liberal households (like Barbara Underwood of the Moonie 5 trial). I am not as physically tough as a Turkish soldier but I am certainly tough ideologically. In resisting coercion I use a form of "name magic" to strengthen me and weaken the opposition. If you can control the naming of an act or a relation, you can dominate the situation even if you are in a weaker position. Thus when Moonie recruiters approached me at the No. 10 Monterey bus stop in front of the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park in SF with their usual "Hi sailor, new in town?" approach ("Are you from out of town? We live with a group of people. Would you like to come to dinner?); I responded "I'm not interested in the Reverend Moon." They left me alone. When confronting con artists, I usually name the general category name of their cons: "Spanish Prisoners," "Shell Game," "Bank Examiners Con," etc. Naming works with the Geheime Staatspolizei as well. "You can't park here." "I'm not parking, I'm standing." "Well you can't stand here either." "OK." "In nature it's kill or be killed. In politics it's define or be defined." -- Szaz DCF

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CAVE Query
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We've received by black bag a 25-page doc entitled: TR45.3, Appendix A to IS-54, Rev. B Dual-Mode Cellular System Authentication, Message Encryption, Voice Mask Generation, A-Key Verification, and Test Data February, 1992. No Source. It describes the CAVE cryptographic function in detail, and its use to generate a set of cryptovariables for the Cellular Message Encryption Algorithm (CMEA); for generation of 520 bits for the duplex voice privacy masks; and for other tasks. Each page warns that information in the document may be subject to export jurisdiction under ITAR. Does anyone know if this is already available on the Web? TIA of incarceration.

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Re: Rogue Governments Issuing Policy Tokens
by Hal Finney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> > The problem (for GAK) of "rogue governments" is this: a government such as > Libya or Panama, henceforth to be known as "Rogueitania," issues policy > cards to all of its citizens, and to all those visiting Rogueitania, and > perhaps through the mail to anyone who pays some fee. I don't think this would happen. Some kind of secret information or hardware is going to be needed to create policy tokens. (Otherwise anybody could make one.) That means that HP, and therefore ultimately the U.S. government, is going to have to approve those governments which are allowed to issue such tokens. HP will have to provide them some special hardware or something to make them. The tokens will only be accepted if they have proper secrets inside them. I can't see the U.S. allowing Libya and similar countries to create policy tokens. The whole point of this exercise is to prevent these countries from being able to use strong crypto. So they will certainly not be on the approved list. Does this represent an attempt to establish a de facto U.S. hegemony over the world, where the U.S. government gets to decide which other governments have access to crypto? Not necessarily; other countries will still have the option to use computers made outside the U.S. The fact of international competition will still exist. If the HP initiative does become a widespread standard (which I think is unlikely at this point) then we will see the same sorts of flight towards non U.S. computers that we now see towards non U.S. crypto companies. Why should an Israeli company buy an American computer with a policy chip that is ultimately under the control of the U.S. government when they can get one locally made which has no such restrictions? And of course all this focus on hardware tokens ignores the fact that the alternative of software-only crypto will still be present, both for the domestic market and for the international market where the products don't come from the U.S. This will represent additional competition which the HP proposal must face. For these reasons I don't think the HP idea solves the export problem for U.S. hardware and software makers. And the response by opinion leaders has ranged from ho-hum to negative, despite the self-serving cheerleading by HP management. Companies which try to sell computers with these chips in them risk getting a "big brother inside" (to use Tim's very effective slogan) reputation. I think this initiative is going nowhere. Hal

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Re: [NOISE] aga isn't on cypherpunks... (and I'm glad)
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > That is your last warning, Mike. If you start harasing my postmaster, > I will have your fucking ass in Federal Court before you can blink. > I on the other hand can kick your ass because I am in the UK and I look forward to doing so immensely unless you stop sending shit to the list... Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re:
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> unsunscribe This stego system must be damn slow seeing as they only ever misspell it in one of two positions, ie. unsuXscriXe, X any letter. Still, i`ll assume it was a cunning plan to trick me into telling him how to unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from the cypherpunks mailing list: Send a message to majordomo(a)toad.com with the *MESSAGE BODY* reading exactly as follows: unsubscribe cypherpunks you(a)your.domain.com Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re: Taking out the garbage
by Dana W. Albrecht 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'd like to point out that accepting posts from those who are not technically subscribed to the list is not always a bad idea. In particular, many of us read the list through means other than a direct subscription, be it either a mail-to-news gateway, web server, filtered list, or other such mechanism. As a case in point, while I do read the list, my actual email address is not subscribed to it. :) While I usually don't contribute to the discussion, I hope that the few posts I have made from time to time don't fall into the pollution category. Furthermore, it's often the case that noted cryptographers who are not subscribed to the list occasionally post valuable contributions to it (e.g. Matt Blaze). Non-subscription and pollution are not necessarily related. Dana W. Albrecht dwa(a)corsair.com Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> writes: > Beginning Monday, 11/25/96, I will bounce all email from the various > (non-)subscribers polluting this list with garbage back to the > authors. Furthermore, I will attach documents describing basic > Internet rules of conduct to each bounce. > > I would encourage other Cypherpunks to do the same.

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Reputation based hiring (was REQUESTING INFORMATION)
by Clay Olbon II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:12 PM 11/19/96 -0200, George A. Stathis wrote (in part): >Does your "unemployment list" include Doctor Dimitri Vulis? I'd be greatful >to know this. >Please, seriously now, and if you have such evidence (that >Dimitri is 'lazy', 'stupid' or 'dishonest') send to me if you can... I won't comment on who I will or won't hire. I will state that I believe that what a person posts is a relevant issue when it comes time to make a hiring decision. Hiring is based on many factors other than simply technical ability. If someone thinks that another should not be hired for whatever reason, I support their right to hold that belief and even to publicize it. <rant against cypherpunks deleted> I won't follow you into the gutter on this one. That horse has been dead for days (and it is beginning to smell really bad). Clay ******************************************************* Clay Olbon olbon(a)ix.netcom.com engineer, programmer, statistitian, etc. **********************************************tanstaafl

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