- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: denial of service and government rights
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This thread is probably already due for a change in the Subject line, but I'll leave it untouched for the moment. On 30 Nov 96 at 13:10, Black Unicorn wrote: > On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Greg Broiles wrote: > [...] > > > I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be true for a > > computer. Fed.Rul.Crim.Pro. 41(b)(1) allows the seizure > > (but seizure is not forfeiture) of "property that > > constitutes evidence of the commission of a > > criminal offense". > > It is true of computers. > Take the case of Ripco (the Chicago BBS raided in the > SunDevil raids back when). > > I don't think "Dr. Ripco" has yet gotten his equipment > back. I don't know for sure, but what I do know is > that 5 years after the raid, he still had certainly > not gotten anything back. [....] > Recall also that Ripco was never specifically charged > (or the minor charges that they did try to pin didn't > stick). > > Also recall that Ripco (now ripco.com) was raided with a > -sealed- warrant. I dont think that the contents of that > warrant have, even today, been released (though I could > be mistaken). Certainly 5 years after they had not. [....] > > But there's a big difference between "seizure" and > > "forfeiture". > > I'd argue with computer hardware it is a distinction > without a difference. Seizing computer hardware (like > Ripco's stuff) for in excess of 5 years is tantamount > to forfeiture given depreciation and so forth. > > Add to this the very liberal rules about how long the > feds can take to even CHARGE you with a crime after > seizure.... And it sums to a very bleak picture, indeed. [....] > > So yes, there may be a statute which gives title to > > the government in computers used to commit crimes, > > and no, the Supreme Court won't necessarily care > > about an "innocent owner". > > Again, I would argue that such a statute needn't even > exist given the rules already well estlablished and > demonstrated in action with regard to indefinate > seizure of computer hardware even in the absence of > criminal claims against the owner. Please forgive my naivete, but are there no legal weapons available to the 'victims' in such cases? I'm passingly familiar with the Operation Sundevil fiasco -- i.e., with the outcome re the principal 'charges'. I'm appalled, however, at the apparent lack of remedies for return of such seized property. Are individuals who find themselves in such a predicament simply at the government's mercy (there's an oxymoron for ya)?? Tired Fighter

5 4

Re: denial of service and government rights
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- > <Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com> (unrecoverable error) > 550 <Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com>... User unknown > ----- Original message follows ----- > Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com wrote: > > On 30 Nov 96 at 13:10, Black Unicorn wrote: > > > On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Greg Broiles wrote: > > > > I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be true for a > > > > computer. Fed.Rul.Crim.Pro. 41(b)(1) allows the seizure > > > > (but seizure is not forfeiture) of "property that > > > > constitutes evidence of the commission of a > > > > criminal offense". > > [snip] > > > Please forgive my naivete, but are there no legal > > weapons available to the 'victims' in such cases? > > I'm passingly familiar with the Operation Sundevil > > fiasco -- i.e., with the outcome re the principal > > 'charges'. I'm appalled, however, at the apparent > > lack of remedies for return of such seized property. > > Are individuals who find themselves in such a > > predicament simply at the government's mercy (there's > > an oxymoron for ya)?? > > Just in case someone replies saying "It's not all that bad", or "It can't > happen here", etc., you should know this: > > The United States government has not been responsive to the people for > a long time, but what's become evident in recent years is that they're > also no longer responsive to basic law and order. > > They do respond to extreme pressure, as was applied in the Weaver, Waco, > and other similar cases, but, as a general rule, they do whatever they > want all the way to the top of the Justice dept. with impunity. > > Example: George Bush's old pal at the Wash. DC P.R. firm hires the > niece(?) of a Kuwaiti official to testify in front of Congress in full > view of the American people on television, that the Iraquis were throwing > babies out of incubators in Kuwait, thereby securing the necessary votes > in Congress to prosecute the Gulf War. > > When it was discovered (after the "war") that the Incubator Baby Scandal > was a lie, nobody was prosecuted. Further, in blatant violation of the > U.S. Constitution, Bush and Schwartzkopf were knighted by Queen Elizabeth > II of England. > > There are also numerous examples of the Justice dept. being caught red- > handed forging documents to frame people for whom they had no evidence or > insufficient evidence to prosecute, and what happens in those cases? > Nothing.

5 12

Re: Building a DC-NET
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimitri writes: > > Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> writes: > > > On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Simon Spero wrote: > > > > > (what's the Alice/Bob name for someone trying a denial of service attack?) > > > > Louis? > > John the petty small-time bitch? How about William? (Can't use Bill, since 'B' is taken). Could refer to Clinton (since he denies services to Cuba etc.), or to Gates (the creator of 'denial of service', aka. DOS). Gary

2 1

ubject
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Swastikas halt Corel sales By Reuters November 25, 1996, 12 p.m. PT MUNICH, Germany--Corel (COSFF) software company has temporarily halted sales of its top-selling Corel Draw graphics program in Germany because it includes four banned Nazi symbols, a company spokesman said today. The Canadian company will remove three drawings of Adolf Hitler and one swastika from future versions of its popular software, spokesman Thomas Layer said. It is also distributing warning labels to be placed on versions now being sold, Layer said. The label warns that the "improper use of digital images and symbols" found in the programs Corel Draw 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 is prohibited in Germany, which bans public displays of Nazi symbols. Munich's state prosecutor launched an investigation into the software on October 2 after learning that someone had used the banned images to print business cards for a neo-Nazi group, Layer said. This is not the first time that the company has had complaints due to their clip art images. In 1992, pressure from US Black rights organisations forced drawings of the Ku Kux Klan to be removed from the collection. Consideration is also being given to the removal of other images from the collection, either due to legal restrictions in various countries, or due to complaints from organisations such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Images considered for removal include a burning US flag, Josef Stalin, the Star of David icon, a cannabis leaf, and a drawing of a woman in a bathing costume. Corel Draw provides more than 24,000 clip art drawings and symbols that computer users can copy. The company suspended the sales on November 19.

1 0

COREL TO CENSOR ALL CLIP ART WORLDWIDE
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Swastikas halt Corel sales By Reuters November 25, 1996, 12 p.m. PT MUNICH, Germany--Corel (COSFF) software company has temporarily halted sales of its top-selling Corel Draw graphics program in Germany because it includes four banned Nazi symbols, a company spokesman said today. The Canadian company will remove three drawings of Adolf Hitler and one swastika from future versions of its popular software, spokesman Thomas Layer said. It is also distributing warning labels to be placed on versions now being sold, Layer said. The label warns that the "improper use of digital images and symbols" found in the programs Corel Draw 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 is prohibited in Germany, which bans public displays of Nazi symbols. Munich's state prosecutor launched an investigation into the software on October 2 after learning that someone had used the banned images to print business cards for a neo-Nazi group, Layer said. This is not the first time that the company has had complaints due to their clip art images. In 1992, pressure from US Black rights organisations forced drawings of the Ku Kux Klan to be removed from the collection. Consideration is also being given to the removal of other images from the collection, either due to legal restrictions in various countries, or due to complaints from organisations such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Images considered for removal include a burning US flag, Josef Stalin, the Star of David icon, a cannabis leaf, and a drawing of a woman in a bathing costume. Corel Draw provides more than 24,000 clip art drawings and symbols that computer users can copy. The company suspended the sales on November 19.

2 1

COREL TO CENSOR ALL CLIP ART WORLDWIDE
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Swastikas halt Corel sales By Reuters November 25, 1996, 12 p.m. PT MUNICH, Germany--Corel (COSFF) software company has temporarily halted sales of its top-selling Corel Draw graphics program in Germany because it includes four banned Nazi symbols, a company spokesman said today. The Canadian company will remove three drawings of Adolf Hitler and one swastika from future versions of its popular software, spokesman Thomas Layer said. It is also distributing warning labels to be placed on versions now being sold, Layer said. The label warns that the "improper use of digital images and symbols" found in the programs Corel Draw 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 is prohibited in Germany, which bans public displays of Nazi symbols. Munich's state prosecutor launched an investigation into the software on October 2 after learning that someone had used the banned images to print business cards for a neo-Nazi group, Layer said. This is not the first time that the company has had complaints due to their clip art images. In 1992, pressure from US Black rights organisations forced drawings of the Ku Kux Klan to be removed from the collection. Consideration is also being given to the removal of other images from the collection, either due to legal restrictions in various countries, or due to complaints from organisations such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Images considered for removal include a burning US flag, Josef Stalin, the Star of David icon, a cannabis leaf, and a drawing of a woman in a bathing costume. Corel Draw provides more than 24,000 clip art drawings and symbols that computer users can copy. The company suspended the sales on November 19.

2 1

Ping!
by cypherpunks＠count04.mry.scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--------

1 0

Ping! ((chain=(anon);1;(replay)))
by cypherpunks＠count04.mry.scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-------- ping 5

1 0

Ping! ((chain=(anon);1;(replay)))
by cypherpunks＠count04.mry.scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-------- ping 5

1 0

A quick discussion of Mersenne Numbers
by Scottauge＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wake of the latest find announcement, some people maybe wondering what the heck is this?!! A mercenne number is of the type: M(p) = 2**p -1 results in a prime when p is a prime. Hopefully this will lead the way to see the pattern of prime numbers and being able to compute prime numbers in a far more efficient manner (after all a function that when given a prime number results in a prime number would be quite a kicker now wouldn't it!) The other Mersenne primes include: 2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,127,61,89, and 107. The numbers 67 and 257 are not primes.... Have fun in them prime number databases....

4 5