- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:05 PM 1/18/97 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >I predict that microcurrency will not catch on in a big way >until it is integrated with browsers, and when it is, it ..... >the idea would also be to invent some new html tags that >indicate the charge on a link. the charge is incurred when ..... >of time before some enterprising programmers plug it all >together in an easy to use way. (as far as I know the >Digicash software is not easily integrated with any browser, >am I correct?) The Digicash software wasn't terribly easy to integrate with _anything_, but folks like Lucky Green have been banging on them to define and release their interface specs, and there's a library called -lucre that will do the Digicash functions. A few months ago, Ian demonstrated a Digicash-compatible plugin at one of our Bay Area cypherpunks meetings (with blinding removed for patent reasons.) I don't know about BorgBrowser, but with Netscape, you can implement non-built-in features as either a plug-in or as a helper application; no need to mess with the HTML spec in yet another browser-specific manner. You can also wedge things in using cookies (though their are non-cookie-aware browsers and people who turn their browsers off) which could work well for lower-security microcurrencies. For instance, connecting to http://newspaper.com/cookie-store.html could take your credit card with SSL and give you a cookie with 100 or 1000 credits using some S/Key-like mechanism, and each time you read a news page it would decrement by one. To avoid fraud (people resetting their cookie files) the newspaper would have to track cookie use, but they may be tracking who's reading what anyway. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > getting this degenerate disease when they get older. Check out the > > videos by Howard Lyman, who used to be a big-time "chemical" farmer. > > One quote: "My soil after a few years was like asbestos". > As far as I understand, 1) no one really understands why cancer rates > are up so much and 2) since people live longer, they are more likely do > have cancer. While I don't claim to to be a Medical Researcher, I think that 1) should be reworded to be "No one is willing to _admit_ why cancer rates are up so much". You (generic) can look at certain population groups where there is low incidence(sp?) of cancer, and then look at our society and it becomes pretty obvious. Breast Cancer is exteremely rare in japenese women living in Japan. Thes same women <excuse me while I light a cigerate> move to the US, start living like American start developing breast cancer at a rate very similar to that of American born women. IMO the biggest reason that "no one really understands why cancer rates are up..." is that "they" are looking for the single bullet when reality isn't usually that simple. I would be willing to make a bet that if you could get a large population group to do the following, you would see a large statistical reduction in the incidence(sp?) of cancer. 1) Eat a lot of fruits, vegetables & breads and cerials. Stay away from large quantities of meat. Try to reduce your fat intake to under 20 grams a day (USDA recommends around 40) 2) Exercise regularly. Ride a bike or walk/run to work. 3) Avoid excess in all things. > What you said is one of the hypotheses. I personally feel that > environment and bad greasy food are other major contributors. > The way they cook all these fries, with overheated grease, is very > bad. BINGO!. Sorry, gotta go, it's dinner time and McD's is calling...

1 0

RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba should not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders their civilians in retaliation for something their governments supposedly did. ................................................................ The U.S.G. has many more resources than most of us to do these things, including equipment, cooperative troops, money, and recognition from other governments. If other nations disagree with the U.S.G. they have the resources to discuss, bargain, negotiate, criticize, form alliances, take their chances and retaliate, etc. These things are done on a level not accessible to the most of us. All that we individuals have are access to telephone lines, computers, and modems. Yet even as we speak the world is being "wired" with cables to further make this singular communication possible and open up avenues to non-government organized activities: international corporations are se tting up offices, services, and correspondence wherever in the world they can find markets. All this is happening even while the governments are complaining to each other about what their citizens are posting (tch, tch) and threatening to deprive each other of that privilege. While governments and their True Believer citizens are dealing with each other on one level, the rest of the world is reorganizing itself into a different order of living and doing business. They are sharing ideas and examining their concepts and beliefs, they are conducting a lot of their disagreements on the net (instead of physically against each other on the ground), opening up to a broader view of relationships between individuals, or to governments, or to religions, sexuality, etc. The situation hasn't completely changed yet, but it is in process. .. Blanc

1 0

[Humor] Crypto in Traveller (a game)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I thought I would pass this along to demonstrate that all uses of crypto are not 'real world'... Hope you enjoy. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com Forwarded message: > To: traveller(a)MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: Aperture Synthesis, Aegis > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:40:18 +0000 > > At 08:15 AM 1/26/97 +0000, you wrote: > <snip> > >For example, at 5 ls, you have ship A sending data to ship B, which has > >to know "exactly" how long it took for the data to cross the gap, as > >that's one of the parameters in the calculations. > > > >If it's "exactly" 5 seconds, then each ship "combines" the data it > >receives directly with the data received 5 seconds later from the other > >ship. The combining involves various things like trig and other messy > >stuff. But it all boils down to "A saw X1 from direction Y1 at time Z1, B > >saw X2 from Y2 at Z2". You combine the info and triangulate. > > > >So at 5 ls, you have a "data lag" of the 5 seconds it takes the signal > >to cross the distance *plus* the processing time. > > > >And since the distance *will* vary, even if only by a little bit, that > >changes the point in the your datastream that you are comparing with > >the datastream from the other ship. > > > > Could we presume that vessels operating together would have some type of > synchronized timekeeping, such as an atomic clock, in each ship, with each > message between ships being time & velocity stamped so that each receiver > could adjust the data for integration to local data? > > We should also assume a really good (and closely gaurded) encryption on the > interchanges, or enemy intercepts would be right dangerous. > > Adventure possiblity: trying to obtain a given unit's encryption code or > seeking to recover said code.

1 0

Re: PGPmail for Windows, Version 4.5
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> writes: > At 11:45 AM 1/26/97 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote: > >Anyone running Windows 95 who hasn't grabbed the beta of PGPmail 4.5 from > >http://www.pgp.com/ is crazy. It works seamlessly with Netscape 3.0 and > >Eudora Pro 3.0. The 30-day demo of Eudora Pro is at: > http://www.eudora.com/prodemo/. > > PGPmail 4.5 now has beta 10 available - the download is smaller than beta 9. > > Eudora Lite 3.0.1 also supports plugins, so it should work. > It also supports filters, which has allowed probable flames to > quietly vanish from my inbox :-) > > BTW, from a non-government-user perspective, the questions asked to establish > export permission are nicely worded. Rather than asking > "Are you a US Subject", and "Do you agree to follow every vague > detail of the Export Laws", as some sites do, it asks > > - Is the requesting computer located within the United States? [N/Y] > > - Do you acknowledge affirmatively that you understand that PGPmail is > > subject to export controls under the Export Administration Act and > > that you cannot export the software without a license? [N/Y] > > - Do you certify that you are not on any of the United States Government's > > lists of export-precluded parties or otherwise ineligible to receive this > > transfer of cryptographic software subject to export controls under the > > Export Administration Act? > and then has a button saying > "I certify that the above answers are truthful", > which is flexible enough that I don't have to feel bad about not being > _absolutely_ certain that my packets aren't getting routed through Canada, > or that I'm not on some list that bans telephone company employees from > downloading cryptographic software on Tuesdays, or whether > computers 30 feet above the US are subject to this week's export rules :-), > or having to say "No" to Question 2 because I understand that you _can_ > export this software without a license (just do it) even though the Feds > disapprove.... > > > # Thanks; Bill > # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com > # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp > # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.) > It doesn't seem to work with the mail program in MS IE, or MS WordMail. I understand why some people don't like Microsoft, but excluding support for popular Microsoft programs seems contrary to their stated goal of promoting the use of crypto. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0

Cellular Encryption Docs
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks to David Wagner and Steve Schear, we've learned about the latest documents on cellular encryption which supercede the 1992 CAVE document, Appendix A to IS-54, which contained the CAVE algorithm. Here are the latest, followed by ordering information. TIA/EIA/IS-136.1-A -- TDMA Cellular/PCS - Radio Interface - Mobile Station - Base Station Compatibility - Digital Control Panel, October, 1996, 372 pp. $350.00. Addendum No. 1 to IS-136.1-A, November, 1996, 40 pp. Free. TIA/EIA/IS-136.2-A -- TDMA Cellular/PCS - Radio Interface - Mobile Station - Base Station Compatibility - Traffic Channels and FSK Control Channel, October, 1996, 378 pp. $310.00. TIA/EIA-627 -- 800 MHZ Cellular System, TDMA Radio Interface, Dual-Mode Mobile Station - Base Station Compatibility Standard, June, 1996, 258 pp. $120.00. These documents can be ordered from: Global Engineering Documents 15 Inverness Way East Englewood, Colorado 80112 Telephone: 1-800-854-7179 However, each of the documents lists the following related supplements which contain "sensitive information" and may be obtained by US/CA citizens from TIA by signing a Non-Disclosure Agreement and acceptance of export restrictions: Appendix A to IS-136. Appendix A to 627. Common Cryptographic Algorithms. Interface Specification for Common Cryptographic Algorithms. These controlled documents can be requested by calling Ms. Sharon Vargish at 1-703-907-7702, who will fax an NDA, and upon receipt of the completed form, will send the controlled documents at no cost. Here's the NDA: AGREEMENT ON CONTROL AND NONDISCLOSURE OF COMMON CRYPTOGRAPHIC ALGORITHMS REVISION A TO IS-54, IS-95, AND IS-136 [Note: 627 supercedes IS-54; IS-95 is for CDMA] "I, _________________________, an employee/consultant/affiliate (typed name) of __________________________, hereafter, "the company," (Company name) _____________________________ (Company address) _____________________________ and a United States or Canadian citizen, acknowledge and understand that the subject documents, to which I will have access contain information [which] is subject to export control under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 120-130). I also understand that the subject documents represent valuable, proprietary and confidential business information of TIA and its members. I hereby certify that this information will be controlled and will only be further disclosed, exported, or transferred according to the terms of the ITAR. ______________________________ _____________________________ Signature Date ______________________________ _____________________________ Printed Name Witness ______________________________ _____________________________ Title Printed Name of Witness [End NDA]

1 0

Re: Hi again, and an invitation to kibitz
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In addition to David Wagner's comments, I'd like to point out several more weaknesses. - Would Kerberos work just as well? No sense reinventing the 3-headed dog. - You're not authenticating the server to the client. - If the challenge is different every time, the server needs to keep the user's password in plaintext (unlike Unix encrypted passwords.) This means that attacks on the server's file system can steal it, and since the password is used for session encryption, it can be used to forge sessions as well. - Alternatively, if the challenge is always the same (per user), then even one eavesdrop kills you, as with Unix passwords. - Since you're using the same 7-byte password hash for the first third of the authentication as for the session key, the dictionary attack on E(challenge, First-seven-bytes) gives you the session key, so you can eavesdrop just fine. If the password is too short, you can then dictionary-attack MD4 to find it also. - There's a Diffie-Hellman variant that can do logins. Unfortunately, it's patented (by some guy from Siemens in Paderborn DE, who patented it in Germany about 2 years before I rediscovered it, and patented it in the US about 6 months before :-) It covers any login methods using commutative hashes H1(H2(x)) == H2(H1(x)). The Siemens version extends it to authenticate both ends to each other; I extended it to get a session key for encryption and/or authentication. This really shouldn't have been patentable - my rediscovery shows that it must be pretty obvious to anyone skilled in the trade :-), and rather than reinventing the wheel, I was reinventing the hubcap or tire swing.... > In article <199701140755.CAA04514(a)mail.intercon.com>, >Amanda Walker <amanda(a)intercon.com> wrote: >> (a) Server sends 8-byte challenge to client >> (b) Client sends Microsoft NT authentication response to the server >> (take the password in Unicode form, do an MD4 hash, pad with 0s to 21 >> bytes, split into 3 7-byte groups, use these as DES keys to encrypt >> the challenge three times, send the 24-byte result as the response). >> (c) If authentication fails, close the connection. >> (d) If authentication succeeds, all subsequent traffic is enccrypted with >> DES in CFB mode. Until April :), the DES key used is taken from the >> first 7 bytes of the MD4 hash of the password (after April, we expect >> to switch to Diffie-Hellman key exchange first, followed by a revised >> authentication handshake). > At 11:20 AM 1/17/97 -0800, David Wagner wrote: >Some weaknesses: >- It doesn't resist dictionary attacks (no salt) when the attacker can make > one active probe (forge a fixed challenge and get the client's response). In particular, an 8 byte challenge is nowhere near enough, though the average million-dollar DES-cracker won't be as easy to adapt for 2**64 cycles of hash+DES*3 - and don't handle each third separately! At least do something like 3DES-EDE and return an 8-byte response, or hash the three output bytes together and send the hash. Using >=16 bytes of challenge would be better, or >=24 if you want printable challenges. >- It doesn't stop replay attacks (replay a fixed challenge, now the same DES > key is used, so replay DES-encrypted session data). You may not be able to replay a given challenge usefully, assuming it's different each time, but MITM attacks work ok after you've cracked the password by dictionary attack in the previous round. >- DES-encryption doesn't provide message authentication against active > attacks; use a MAC too. >- You should use independent DES keys for each direction of the connection. >- Also the DES encryption key doesn't change for each connection. It should. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

[Humor] Crypto in Traveller (a game)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I thought I would pass this along to demonstrate that all uses of crypto are not 'real world'... Hope you enjoy. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com Forwarded message: > To: traveller(a)MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: Aperture Synthesis, Aegis > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:40:18 +0000 > > At 08:15 AM 1/26/97 +0000, you wrote: > <snip> > >For example, at 5 ls, you have ship A sending data to ship B, which has > >to know "exactly" how long it took for the data to cross the gap, as > >that's one of the parameters in the calculations. > > > >If it's "exactly" 5 seconds, then each ship "combines" the data it > >receives directly with the data received 5 seconds later from the other > >ship. The combining involves various things like trig and other messy > >stuff. But it all boils down to "A saw X1 from direction Y1 at time Z1, B > >saw X2 from Y2 at Z2". You combine the info and triangulate. > > > >So at 5 ls, you have a "data lag" of the 5 seconds it takes the signal > >to cross the distance *plus* the processing time. > > > >And since the distance *will* vary, even if only by a little bit, that > >changes the point in the your datastream that you are comparing with > >the datastream from the other ship. > > > > Could we presume that vessels operating together would have some type of > synchronized timekeeping, such as an atomic clock, in each ship, with each > message between ships being time & velocity stamped so that each receiver > could adjust the data for integration to local data? > > We should also assume a really good (and closely gaurded) encryption on the > interchanges, or enemy intercepts would be right dangerous. > > Adventure possiblity: trying to obtain a given unit's encryption code or > seeking to recover said code.

1 0

Re: David Kahn advocates GAK
by wlkngowl＠unix.asb.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:32:56 GMT, you wrote: >This is surprising, given that (in Kahn on Codes) Mr. Kahn expressed >forceful opinions >- against certain aspects of export controls, >- questioning the value of the NSA's mission, in contrast to social >demands on government revenues. I didn't find his opinions forceful in Codebreakers, 2nd. ed. Questioning the NSA's purpose vs. advoctating GAK are not incompatible. >However, while I oppose making key escrow mandatory in general, and >share the general suspicion of a voluntary Clipper, if Mr. Kahn's >support for Clipper is limited to cellular telephones, then I have no >quarrel with such a position. >Encryption is illegal, without special permission, for use over the >airwaves, particularly where mobile radio is involved. This is a >long-standing restriction, and not unreasonable. Private communication >between people at home is one thing, but allowing criminals to closely >coordinate their activities on the move is another. [..] The problem is the technology is merged. What if you're using cellular links to your ISP, and use SSL or ssh or PGP? Radio is being advocated as a possible solution to some of the net's bandwidth problems. Rob

1 0

Re: David Kahn advocates GAK
by Robert Rothenburg Walking-Owl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:32:56 GMT, you wrote: >This is surprising, given that (in Kahn on Codes) Mr. Kahn expressed >forceful opinions >- against certain aspects of export controls, >- questioning the value of the NSA's mission, in contrast to social >demands on government revenues. I didn't find his opinions forceful in Codebreakers, 2nd. ed. Questioning the NSA's purpose vs. advoctating GAK are not incompatible. >However, while I oppose making key escrow mandatory in general, and >share the general suspicion of a voluntary Clipper, if Mr. Kahn's >support for Clipper is limited to cellular telephones, then I have no >quarrel with such a position. >Encryption is illegal, without special permission, for use over the >airwaves, particularly where mobile radio is involved. This is a >long-standing restriction, and not unreasonable. Private communication >between people at home is one thing, but allowing criminals to closely >coordinate their activities on the move is another. [..] The problem is the technology is merged. What if you're using cellular links to your ISP, and use SSL or ssh or PGP? Radio is being advocated as a possible solution to some of the net's bandwidth problems. Rob

1 0