- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Belated thank you's
by Thomas M. McGhan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

in a message apparently-from: jbugden(a)smtplink.alis.ca these words appeared: >The loss of John's involvement is a real loss. {snip} I would expect that "John's involvement" will not be lost just because the primary mass storage for the data comprising these messages is not on a disk drive in toad hall. >...how John will feel about the cypherpunks list as it moves beyond him. {snip} Unless the openness of this list, which was such a cause celebre, is compromised, I do not envision any mechanisms being put in place to exclude his contributions, if he chooses to make any. I also expect that the outcome of the in-progress election for ISOC board of trustees may have a certain effect on his time-and-energy resource allocation algorithm for the next few years. ======= tmcghan(a)mail.bcpl.lib.md.us http://www.gill-simpson.com voice: (410) 467-3335 fax: (410) 235-6961 pagenet: (410) 716-1342 cellular: (410) 241-9113 ICBM: 39.395N 76.469W

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Netcom carriage of alt.cypherpunk newsgroups
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I received the following reply to my inquiry: --------- Dear Mr. Schear: Thank you for your request. The addition of newsgroups is handled by our System Administrators, and we have forwarded your message over to their department. If we are able to add this group it should be available within two weeks of receipt. If we are unable to add the group for any reason we will also inform you of this within two weeks. If you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us again. - Leigh Ann --------------------------------------------------------------------- _ _ |_|_ |_| Email Technical Support _ |_|_ NETCOM On-Line Communication Services, Inc. |_| _|_| http://www.netcom.com/bin/webtech |_| 24-Hour Technical Support: (408) 881-1810 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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"cypherpunks is dead..."
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"...long live cypherpunks?" "So long, and thanks for all the fish?" But, seriously, folks... Lucky Green echoed many of my own thoughts when he talked about all the things being on this list has meant to him. Like Lucky, there is a rediculously huge list of things that this list has taught me over the almost three (wow..) years or so that I've been here. Thanks to all of you here, I have had nothing short of a Copernican transformation in my perception of the universe, and it completely changed what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. From the very first time I started reading this list and applying what I learned here to what I already knew, right then, for the first time in a *very* long time, I knew *exactly* how some very important pieces of the world actually worked, and more important, why they were going to change. I now *know* where the world is going to go. Maybe not when, of course, but certainly where and how. :-) (Old stock picker's joke: "I can tell you what. I can tell you when. I can't tell you both. If I did, I wouldn't tell *you*.") Anyway, I've learned all these things from many cypherpunks, some still here, and a lot who've left. I expect that, as we move into the next phase of this "group", we'll continue to teach ourselves much more about the world and strong cryptography's effect on it. But, nothing will compare to the feeling we'll get when we remember the time we've spent here at Toad Hall. We have John Gilmore to thank for the "lodgings", of course, and, certainly, for his encouragement and support. And, obviously, his tolerance, which finally sagged and broke under the weight of both his expectations and those of our own. We also have to thank Tim May for his um, ideological, presence on this list from since before it existed, :-), and, or course, for his current "leadership", both moral and political. (Of course, I can say all the next few wierd and gushy things about him without fear of refutation on his part, 'cause, in his wisdom, I'm still in his killfile ;-)) It was Tim who was our compass. It was Tim who came down from the mountain and stopped us from worshiping the fatted calf of censorship, and who is now leading us into the promised land of unfettered discourse, both on usenet and on the new cypherpunk server network. Since Tim paper-trained most of us here (myself included, though some may debate how well he succeeded :-)), that is, how to behave on this list, and, most important, how to imagine what a world of strong crytography on ubiquitous networks would look like, I now find his "leading" us out onto the net, and away from Sinai, most symmetrical indeed. :-). And so, in this last 24 hours or so on toad.com, I want to thank *both* Tim and John. But, also, I personally want to thank the "money-punks". People like Eric Hughes, and Perry Metzger, and Ian Goldberg, and Hal Finney, and Lucky Green, and Duncan Frissell, and Black Unicorn, and many, many other people, who have helped me work through, on this list, or in private e-mail, or, occasionally, in person, all of the stuff they know, and the stuff I have figured out myself. All about e$, about digital bearer certificate markets, about microintermediation. All the things which completely occupy almost all my waking thoughts these days. Because of this list's effect on my life, I have been motivated to start the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, to evangelize financial cryptography to any audience who would listen to me, to create a web site dedicated to e$, to create a group of e$ lists with some 300 total subscribers, to work with Vinnie Moscaritolo to create both the Mac-Crypto lists and conferences, to work with Vince Cate and Ray Hirschfeld to create the world's first peer-reviewed conference on financial cryptography, and with Vince and Ian Goldberg to create the world's first intensive financial cryptography bootcamp (which is going on as I write this). To create, with Vinnie, and Rachel Wilmer, and Anthony Templer, and Bob Antia, and Rodney Thayer, the next generation of the e$ website and mailing lists. Next week, I go to FC97 in Anguilla because of the things I've learned on this list. In the middle of March, I go to Cupertino to help Vinnie with Mac-Crypto 2.0, because of the things I've learned on this list. I've been invited to speak all over the world (and New Hampshire, too :-)) to talk about this stuff. I get quoted in the newspapers. I write magazine op-ed pieces. It has even earned me a buck or two. :-). In short, I owe everything I do of any consequence these days to my participation on this list, and, for that, I'm profoundly grateful to all of you for the privelege of being here: to listen, to learn, and, occasionally, to pay back all the stuff I've learned with a thing or two that I've worked out myself. Like that creosote bush I talked about before, cypherpunks is not going to die just because the address "cypherpunks(a)toad.com" ceases to exist. There are already 3rd-order cypherpunks lists out there. 3rd generation copies of the same "memetic" material. cypherpunks will *never* die, short of a cybernetic Chixalub event of some kind, and, frankly, even then. The internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it. So. In a very real sense, today on cypherpunks is like any other day in the life of a creosote bush. It's a big desert, folks. We're the only ones who know how to live out here. The whole damn desert, as far as the eye can see, is ours to move into. All we have to do is keep filling in the empty spots... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Mobil adopts no-physical-connection electronic payment token
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:01:14 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: Mobil adopts no-physical-connection electronic payment token X-orig-from: "Travis J.I. Corcoran" <Travis-Corcoran(a)deshaw.com> X-e$pam-source: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:02:14 -0500 From: "Travis J.I. Corcoran" <Travis-Corcoran(a)deshaw.com> To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: Mobil adopts no-physical-connection electronic payment token Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Travis J.I. Corcoran" <Travis-Corcoran(a)deshaw.com> FYI, from today's WSJ: ------------------------------ snip! ------------------------------ Mobil Aims to Turn Gas Pumps Into Automatic-Payment Sites By PETER FRITSCH Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Mobil Corp. hopes to make life in the fast lane a little bit faster. The oil company will introduce Wednesday a miniature electronic-payment device that busy motorists can simply wave at a gasoline pump to fill 'er up. The tiny electronic tag -- called a Speedpass -- clips onto a driver's key ring. Mobil is betting the technology will catch on with drivers tired of fumbling for cash or waiting for a pump to authorize a credit-card purchase. Whether drivers are in such a hurry that they will be interested is an open question. "My key chain already looks like a janitor's," says Carol Coale, a Houston securities analyst. Mobil, which tested the Speedpass over the past six months with 10,000 consumers in St. Louis, says the added convenience can save the motorist valuable time. Mobil's technology, developed in partnership with Texas Instruments Inc. and Dresser Industries Inc., is similar to that used by drivers at bridge and highway toll booths. Once a driver waves the tag at the pump, the pump instantly contacts Mobil's credit department and charges a credit card preselected by the customer. The marketing effort challenges the conventional wisdom of gasoline retailing. Most drivers say location is more important when the gasoline gauge reads "empty" than brand name or price. Mobil's thinking is that the gee-whiz factor of owning the Speedpass, combined with the convenience, will persuade people to go an extra mile to buy from one of Mobil's 7,700 branded stations. Speedpass is also an attempt to help Mobil build on its position as the nation's top gasoline seller. With a 9.9% share of the market, Mobil in 1995 overtook Shell Oil Co. as the leading gasoline seller, as measured in gallons sold. (Figures for 1996 aren't available.) Mobil, which was among the first oil companies to use pay-at-the-pump technology, will introduce Speedpass in key markets by May 1. ------------------------------ snip! ------------------------------ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: Why Digital Video Disks are late to market
by landon_dyer＠wayfarer.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:53 AM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >azur(a)netcom.com (Steve Schear) writes: >> Has anyone seen discussions on how these protection mechanisms can be >> circumvented? > >Ummm, sector copy? AFAIK, the reader/writer manfacturer is trusted to >cripple any copies it makes. Of course, it's all software, so if some >EVIL person were to write a driver that did not honor the "don't copy >me" header ... i can confirm this. i recently talked to an employee of a firm [who i won't name] that was looking for some kind of shrouding scheme to protect their copy-protection enforcement code, under W95. [he knows the effort is ultimately doomed. he *is* a user of SoftICE, after all... :-) ] quotable quotes: "we know someone's going to have their scheme cracked. all we care about is that ours isn't the first." "i can't tell you the [encryption] algorithm, because that would let you break it. yes, the security is in the algorithm." where does hollywood get its crypto? mattel? -landon [back to lurk mode...]

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No Subject
by Shark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Trial

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OECD on Dirty Money
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Last week's FT-reported OECD money laundering paper, "FATF-VIII Money Laundering Typologies Exercise Public Report," 5 February 1997 is at: http://jya.com/fatf8.htm (Text 94K; 4 images 78K)

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Toto wrote: > > The primal instinct of those with interest in 'control' is centered > > around the need for 'total' control. The history of dictators in > > general has shown more than a few who have allowed the sheep to escape > > from their pens while they were fixated on chasing down the few 'black > > sheep' that had strayed from their control. > > The CypherPunks list is a prime example of this. John and Sandy became > > so fixated on their attack on Dr. Vulis (and subsequent 'dissenters') > > that they eventually lost control of the other sheep in the fold who > > were willing to go along with a 'moderate' abrogation of their right > > to free speech by the censoring of only the 'black' sheep. > Take no offense, but why nobody thought about an obviously more likely > conclusion: that it is Dr. Vulis who was, say, hired by Detweiler to > destroy cypherpunks. I personally find the above unlikely, but at least > more likely than all other suggestions (which I think are an example > of the delusion of grandeur). Remember the movie Die Hard (#1)? Remember what the wife said about how her husband would drive people stark, raving mad? I humbly suggest by analogy that it was me, since that is my effect on a lot of people, particularly (and especially) the John and Sandy types.

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Re: Why Digital Video Disks are late to market
by Landon Dyer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:53 AM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >azur(a)netcom.com (Steve Schear) writes: >> Has anyone seen discussions on how these protection mechanisms can be >> circumvented? > >Ummm, sector copy? AFAIK, the reader/writer manfacturer is trusted to >cripple any copies it makes. Of course, it's all software, so if some >EVIL person were to write a driver that did not honor the "don't copy >me" header ... i can confirm this. i recently talked to an employee of a firm [who i won't name] that was looking for some kind of shrouding scheme to protect their copy-protection enforcement code, under W95. [he knows the effort is ultimately doomed. he *is* a user of SoftICE, after all... :-) ] quotable quotes: "we know someone's going to have their scheme cracked. all we care about is that ours isn't the first." "i can't tell you the [encryption] algorithm, because that would let you break it. yes, the security is in the algorithm." where does hollywood get its crypto? mattel? -landon [back to lurk mode...]

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Re: Any more like www.anonymizer.com ??
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Come on, Bob. Quit rubbing it in about that clear blue water, the tropical temperatures and high horsepower speakers. -attila on or about 970219:0704 Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> said: +At 8:29 pm -0500 on 2/18/97, ! Drive wrote: +> A proposal and prototype of a different anonymity mechanism can be found at: +> http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/projects/onion-routing/overview.html +And, of course, you can hear about the next generation from the same +bunch, on Monday morning at FC97: + Unlinkable Serial Transactions + Paul F. Syverson (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA), + Stuart G. Stubblebine (AT&T Labs--Research, Murray Hill, NJ, USA), + David M. Goldschlag (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA) +:-). +<http://www.offshore.com.ai/fc97/> Cheers, Bob Hettinga _____________________________________________________________________ Surveilence is just another form of entertainment. ___________________________________________________________attila_____ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMwtHW704kQrCC2kFAQF71QQAx/ai6PvbLHETVNLHQJ78XIIgkPBLflbO 4LfcHeA/m5WSq+kK8GNbSsMq+7Bcfpw+iELlPUhbU671oecayfyJj1C/Irwr2pXF dgNniD/2s0QnhDGEuHDbFtjkeIiSV70ED9+TO+osLG/fQIigV0jeIFPeh9D0Ri/z FueZ3HRx784= =Dtbl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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