- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: SAFE Bill is a Disaster--"Use a cipher, go to prison"
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:09 AM -0800 5/1/97, Jonah Seiger wrote: >Tim - > >It's too bad we may not see eye-to-eye on this one. > >For what it's worth, CDT shares your concerns about the criminal provision >in the SAFE bill. We believe that as currently written, the provision is >overly broad and could create a chilling effect on the everyday use of >encryption, and unnecessary because it duplicates existing obstruction of >justice law. Indeed. All reasons to withdraw support for the Bill and to actively seek to undermine and sabotage it, as I hope many of us do. Further, it is quite clear that the Bill will *not* allow strong crypto (by "strong" I mean "arbitrarily strong," the only kind most of us support!) to be exported freely. Even for "financial cryptography," as clearly any strong crypto system can--and wiil--be used eventually by some group the Administration deems to be "international terrorists." (I would classify the U.S. government as a supporter of international terrorism, for many reasons. The mining of the harbors in a country with a relatively freely elected government, for example. The support of Kurdish terrorists. The funding and equippers of sappers in Serbia. And so on. Oh, and does the use of PGP by Burmese rebels/freedom fighters/terrorists, so often cited by Phil Zimmermann as a postive example, count as use by terrorists? You get the picture. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I support, for example, the use of strong cryptography to undermine the Zionist entity which preys upon the life of the people (TM)...does this make me a supporter of terrorists or of freedom fighters? And why do George Bush and Bill Clinton get to decide?) >We have expressed these concerns both publicly (in a letter to the >committee signed by EPIC, ACLU, EFF, VTW, CDT, and over 20 other >organizations - see http://www.privacy.org/ipc/safe_letter.html) and >privately in conversations with the committee staff. We hope to work with >the authors of SAFE to address these concerns, but, as you know, we are not >running this show and have to work with what the Congress gives us. Yoo're not "running the show," nor am I, or we, but you can withdraw support and actively oppose a bad bill. >However, despite our concerns about the criminal provisions, we believe >strongly that the SAFE bill, and the bills in the Senate sponsored by Burns >and Leahy, are vitally important and should be passed. > >As you know, the debate over encryption policy reform has been going on for >more than 4 years. Despite all of our efforts to promote the use of >encryption, crypto is still not widely used by the public. "Use a cipher, go to prison" will hardly engender more public support for cryptography. More importantly, what the hell does the SAFE bill have to do with Americans using crypto? Crypto is completely unrestricted, at least by law, anywhere in the U.S. for use by American citizens and (most) others. If Americans aren't using crypto, it's for other reasons. "Use a cipher, go to prison" will not help in this process. >The Clinton administration has not backed off from their commitment to a >global key-escrow/key-recovery system with guaranteed law enforcement >access to private keys. And despite the brilliant work of EFF on the >various legal challenges to the export restrictions, we feel this issue >will only be fully resolved through legislation. > >The status quo, in our view, is not good enough. Because of the export >controls and the lack of a coherent US encryption policy, Internet users do >not have access to the privacy protecting encryption products they need. > >Congress needs to stand up to the Administration and say, with a strong >voice, "your policy is a failure - we need a different solution". That's >what SAFE, Pro-CODE, and ECPA II do. Sorry, Johah, but these are just platitudes from a press release. More detailed analysis is called for, not just mouthings about Congress standing up to the Administration, etc. For example, answer this question: Will "unbreakable" (*) cryptography, using full-strength RSA and drop-in 3DES, IDEA, Blowfish, AES, etc., be allowed for unrestricted export? If "yes," then this is indeed a good deal. But the weasel words in nearly every section clearly say it is not. If "no," then crypto is still crippled for export...the details just vary (or maybe they don't, actually, as nothing is spelled out). (* "Unbreakable" is a dangerous term. By "unbreakable" I mean here an algorithm and key distribution mechanism (or no KD, as in PK systems) which surpasses any known breaking attempts by some comfortable margin. Cf. the study by the noted cryptographers, and use keylengths like 128 bits of work factor...that ought to be "unbreakable" by the standards of the next few centuries!) Importantly, the putative goals of the SAFE Bill could be much more simply handled this way: "SAFE -- Security and Freedom Through Encryption: Computer software shall be treated as any other form of speech is. Software shall not be subject to restrictions on dissemination, export, or possession." --Tim May, still a felon, and still using encryption to further prosecutable offenses. Fuck Congress. -- [This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the U.S. Communications Decency Act of 1996] And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why don't you boys just come on in and fuck them right here in my house - I'll just watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said: "Dad's getting old. I say we should fuck him before he's too old to fuck." So the two daughters got him drunk and screwed him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got them pregnant, and had an incestuous bastard son....Onan really hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while his brother got all the credit, so he pulled out before he came....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents, your pet dog, or the farm animals, unless of course God tells you to. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]

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BOUNCE cypherpunks@Algebra.COM: Admin request: /^subject:\s*help\b/i (fwd)
by cpunks＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----- Forwarded message from owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com ----- >From owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Sat May 3 20:52:56 1997 Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:52:56 -0500 From: owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Message-Id: <199705040152.UAA22185(a)manifold.algebra.com> To: owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM: Admin request: /^subject:\s*help\b/i >From cpunks(a)manifold.algebra.com Sat May 3 20:52:48 1997 Return-Path: <cpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com> Received: (from root@localhost) by manifold.algebra.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with UUCP id UAA22154 for cypherpunks+incoming-cyberpass(a)algebra.com; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:52:44 -0500 Received: from sirius.infonex.com (cpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com [206.170.114.2]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id VAA13741 for <cypherpunks+incoming-cyberpass(a)algebra.com>; Sat, 3 May 1997 21:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA28274; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rigel.cyberpass.net (root(a)rigel.infonex.com [206.170.114.3]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA28267 for <cpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com>; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.amaranth.com (root(a)mailhub.amaranth.com [206.96.254.3]) by rigel.cyberpass.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08032 for <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net>; Sat, 3 May 1997 18:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amaranth.com (ppp20.pensacola.com [206.96.254.20]) by mailhub.amaranth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13493 for <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net>; Sat, 3 May 1997 20:45:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199705040145.UAA13493(a)mailhub.amaranth.com> From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> Date: Sat, 03 May 97 15:28:09 -0500 To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net Subject: Help!! X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.27c b9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Do to some problems with my ISP I have lost several days worth of mail. :( Would someone be kind enough to zip up the cypherpunks posts from thursday to today and send them to me. Thanks, - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: What I like about MS is its loyalty to customers! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 ES000000 iQCVAwUBM2uuPo9Co1n+aLhhAQHNMgP/bqjyLYYW9E5ZNU7mvXgt87IBwONabZUG 3UtHOkdn+y0ONDQED8HGRq8Z/1ns8yU9LfR4Y+FHvGp//3CmWwwce0MDTp3O0Mg1 QF0yX8h4qS8HpZUxn2FNnrhn2dj+dBKqZLm8ADLuOrV5lbNLeFuMFbTRGts/QEAD BDJen5/U8ZI= =bDrX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Tag-O-Matic: I smashed a Window and saw... OS/2. ----- End of forwarded message from owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com -----

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cyberpass.net down?
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Is cyberpass.net down? I have posted several messages but have not received any of them. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If Windows sucked it would be good for something. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 ES000000 iQCVAwUBM2wNNY9Co1n+aLhhAQELwwQAkpj04nDm0nldgAHpFdfSa4aMa4XqNMWP DDblV3g3QRF/e2+FXk43xl2R611zNIQGchzEiMipPal7NKw1O/RZBlS/QtU7iBeG ScPYxEnom/Nq9xqdlCS0bhP2A6soikaK/SRAdX96w6iUtELbHWSN5GSSAD3LkN5B 0GEFhWgAF1M= =mviw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Bypassing the Digicash Patents
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Someone, whose reputation is bigger than God, in the hope of sparing me public humiliation from the error of my ways (the very paradigm of a lost cause :-)), wrote to me offline on this topic. I'm posting it here, because frequently people reply to me with stuff which is extremely relevant to the argument at hand, and which should be heard in public. The main consideration I use is that none of the information in the reply can be used to identify the person who sent it, or mess up whatever plans they're laying, something you can clearly see in the following... At 4:48 pm -0400 on 5/3/97, somebody wrote: you write: > > I further claim that the most efficient digital bearer certificate is an > > anonymous one. > > Hal's point is this. There are two types of "anonymity": one where > the bank says "I swear I won't keep any records based on the name > you gave me" (the benign bank), and the other where we use Chaumian > blinding so the bank never even sees the identity information (the > untrusted bank). Right. Let's call the first one the Microsoft model, because I feel especially vicious this evening, and the second one the "Real" Chaum model. > Now, it seems to me that the "benign bank" sort of anonymity can't > cost any more (and in fact will even cost less) than the "untrusted > bank" Chaumian anonymity. Not true. With Chaumian anonymity, all the underwriter does is keep a database of spent digital bearer certificates, which they keep down by expiring certificate issues and the keys which generate them periodically. When someone double-spends a certificate, the underwriter has enough information to reveal their public key, but only when someone double spends and not before. With the Microsoft model, the underwriter knows who's buying your certificates, *and* the shared secret which makes the cash valid, *and* what time the certificate was issued, *and* what your shoe sizes, and the name of your sister's first date, and, and, and,... Anyway, I claim that the very Chaumian inability to *ever* know who bought the certificates you underwrite keeps you from ever *trying* to keep track of any other data, which, of course, is inherently cheaper. > Yet your arguments for anonymity apply > equally to both situations. No they don't. There's a qualitative difference between a system where you can't ever know who some one is, but you can still trust them, and a system where you always know who someone is and they have to trust *you*. :-). I say that one of the additional virtues of the former system is significantly reduced transaction costs, and finally, that that happy side effect will eventually result in a shift away from the latter kind of system, if it ever is useful to begin with. By the way, an additional cost of the system, which is obviously more in line with the privacy concerns of cypherpunks, and possibly less germaine to the transaction cost issue we're discussing, is the cost of the risk of breaking the confidentiality of systems like the Microsoft idea. I have a hunch that all it takes is one big information leak, and such systems will be dropped as a form of digital cash underwriting, but I'm going pretty far out on a limb to make that particular assertion. Should we call this the "Clipper effect", just to rattle peoples' chains? > Therefore, I say your arguments, taken > to their logical conclusion, imply that we'll end up with "benign > bank" anonymity, rather than Chaumian "untrusted bank" anonymity. Again, I don't think so. However, what we really need is some actual estimates and analysis to prove it, barring the existence of any actual transaction cost data, of course. :-). Something I'm not qualified to do, though I bet there are people here who can get those answers. > But "benign bank" anonymity is a very very weak form of anonymity > indeed -- it's not what most cypherpunks (or cryptographers) mean > when they talk about anonymous digital cash. Amen. Only people mired in the book-entry way of looking at things think otherwise. I believe the economics of the marketplace will soon teach them the serious errors of their ways... > "Benign bank" anonymity > is the sort of thing that Cybercash or other traditional systems > provide; "untrusted bank" security is what Digicash provides. And, again, I assert that the paradox of all this is that the cheapest form of commerce is a form where you don't trust anyone, or, better, trust, but verify, everyone. That's the beauty of the blind signature algorithm, it allows you to do all that, and not keep books, which cost money. > So, if I understand your argument correctly, you're saying that > we'll inevitably end up with some weak form of anonymity, but it > will be far weaker than what most cypherpunks want. I hope you can see by now, after I've taken another shot at explaining it better, what I was getting at. > That sounds more like a cause for a call to arms than a reason to > sit around reassuring ourselves that everything will turn out fine > without us! Nah. I don't do calls to arms. It's much better to change the world by making money. An especially important focus to have when you're building transaction systems. :-). I strongly beleive that you can easily knock three, maybe four, decimal places off the cost of any transaction you can care to mention just by using strong financial cryptography and anonymous digital bearer certificates on a ubiquitous geodesic network. That remains to be seen, however. I will say that I'm working as hard as someone with my limited skillset can to prove that hypothesis. :-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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Ready for PrimeTime: FUD! The Newsletter of Fear Uncertainty and Doubt
by geeman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

See this new exciting venture. Cards and Letters Welcome; use "FUD" in the subject header. www.best.com/~geeman

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Re: Firewalls
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy Mayo the self-admitted child molester possesses a rudimentary dick less than one inch long, half the size of his mother's clitoris, that barely makes a fistful. Thereby hangs the root of this Jew-hating sissy's sick fixation on little boys and Usenet forgeries. \|||/ (o o) -ooO-(_)-Ooo- Timmy Mayo

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YOU ARE APPROVED!
by YES!＠netcom.es 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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No Subject
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Quoting: http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/mtp/default.asp Tune in to Meet the Press with Tim Russert on Sunday... check local listings for details. Sunday: Meet the Press will look at crime, terrorism, national security, and foreign campaign contributions. Moderator Tim Russert will speak with FBI Director Louis Freeh. This week's panelist will be NBC's Pete Williams, and the roundtable guest will be Elizabeth Drew, author of Whatever it Takes. Meet the Press transcripts are usually available three hours after the show airs.

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Full Strength Stronghold 2.0 Released Worldwide
by sameer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For Release May 5, 1997 C2Net Software: Douglas Barnes +1 510 986 8770 UK Web: Dave Williams +44 113 222 0046 Full-Strength Stronghold 2.0 Released Worldwide C2Net President Sameer Parekh Rejects Weak Keys, Back Doors Oakland, CA - C2Net Software, Inc. annouced today the worldwide availability of Stronghold 2.0, a major upgrade to their secure web server based on Apache. With this release, Stronghold has added more functionality than ever, including uncompromised security, web-based configuration, and new protocol support. "The Stronghold web server -- like all C2Net products -- supports full-sized keys, and will never support government back doors," said C2Net president Sameer Parekh. "We have development teams around the globe working on our products, free from US export control policy. Even if some of these countries cave in to US demands, we'll still be able to produce first-rate, uncompromised security products." Others Use Compromised Security In a recent announcement, Netscape Communications announced plans to include government back doors in their products. "By implementing this so-called 'key recovery', Netscape is getting a small increase in key length in exchange for putting your keys in the hands of the government," said Parekh. "This the same government that hired Aldrich Ames, the same goverment that has IRS employees surfing taxpayer databases at will. What do you think is going to happen to your keys?" According to cryptography expert Bruce Schneier, "There is absolutely no business case for key recovery. Any benefit you get from longer key lengths is offset by the enormous security risk of concentrating keys in a few hands." Current "export" versions of Netscape and Microsoft web servers use a weak 40-bit cipher that can be broken in hours by any bored systems administrator or college student with access to a few hundred idle machines. By comparison, all C2Net software can use at least 128-bit keys. To understand this difference, imagine that the hundreds of computers needed to crack a 40 bit key in a few hours were compressed into a cube an inch on a side, and you built a computer the size of the Earth out of these cubes, it would still take this computer more than four times as long to crack a 128 bit key. It's easy to find a few hundred computers idle at any medium-sized business or university; Earth-sized computers are still relatively uncommon. Stronghold Gaining Market Share In several recent surveys, Stronghold has emerged as a leading contender in the web server market. An O'Reilly and Associates/Netcraft survey of secure web servers in use on the Internet found that Stronghold was second only to Netscape. The monthly Netcraft survey of all web servers on the Internet has indicated for some time that Stronghold is also the second most popular commercial web server for the Unix platform. "We've been steadily gaining market share," indicated Parekh, "and to a great extent it's due to our firm stand that we won't sell deliberately weakened security products to our customers." Features in Stronghold 2.0 "We've redesigned the security interfaces and built on the new Apache 1.2 code base," commented Mark Cox, Stronghold product manager at UK Web. "Stronghold has had many productivity and performance enhancements and it is now fully compliant with the new HTTP/1.1 standard." The HTTP/1.1 standard is a significant update to HTTP/1.0, the protocol that governs how web browsers and web servers communicate. HTTP/1.1 brings many new features to the table, including improved content and language negotiation, improved persistent connections, and better recovery from interrupted transfers. (For more information on HTTP/1.1, see http://www.apacheweek.com/features/http11) Stronghold 2.0 also includes a web-based configuration manager, allowing web administrators to securely administer their sites from the web browser of their choice. "We've had a lot of requests for this feature as Stronghold has grown in popularity," said Douglas Barnes, C2Net Vice President. On the security front, the new release includes support for Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) version 3, which provides stronger security and more flexibility in choosing ciphers. Background UK Web Limited is a leading Internet services company specialising in server technology, Internet security, business solutions and effective site design. C2Net is the leading worldwide provider of uncompromised network security software. Netscape Navigator and Netscape Enterprise are trademarks of Netscape Communications Corporation. Microsoft Internet Explorer and Microsoft Internet Information Server are trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. Stronghold and SafePassage are trademarks of C2Net Software, Inc. Portions of Stronghold were developed by the Apache Group, and were taken with permission from the Apache Server http://www.apache.org/. Stronghold also includes software developed by Eric Young (eay(a)cryptsoft.com)

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Ebonics: The Finale
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Oakland school officials drop ebonics references Associated Press OAKLAND, Calif.-The Oakland public schools African American Task Force has dropped all references to ebonies in a final report about improving education for black students. The district caused a national controversy four months ago when it suggested that ebonies, or black English, was a second language that is "genetically based." The final report, obtained by The Oakland Tribune, still emphasizes improving black students' language skills, but it makes no reference to ebonies. There is also no reference to black students speaking a separate language. And provisions suggesting the district pursue federal bilingual funding for black students, as it does for children who speak Spanish or Chinese at home, have been deleted. The U S. Department of Education quickly dismissed the latter idea when it was raised in December. Instead, the 17-page report calls for better language and reading programs, additional tests to measure the language skills of students who speak black English, and expansion of the Standard English Proficiency program. The task force says the district should aggressively recruit black teachers and offer help to black teachers who have not passed the state teaching exam. The task force also recommends hiring a coordinator specifically to improve the education of black students and a budget of nearly $2 million over five years to achieve the goals. The task force's work is an attempt to improve the dismal record of Oakland's black students. Black students, who represent 53 percent of the district, make up 71 percent of special education classes, 37 percent of gifted classes and 80 percent of suspensions. --end PGP encrypted mail PREFERRED (See MIT/BAL servers for my PK) PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Schear (N7ZEZ) | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com 7075 West Gowan Road | Voice: 1-702-658-2654 Suite 2148 | Fax: 1-702-658-2673 Las Vegas, NV 89129 | --------------------------------------------------------------------- God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; The courage to change the things I can; The weapons that make the difference; And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people that got in my way;-) "Surveilence is ultimately just another form of media, and thus, potential entertainment." --G. Beato "Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind." -General William Westmoreland

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