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Re: Copyrights and Wrongs, from The Netly News
by Mikhael Frieden 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:28 AM 11/20/97 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: >********* >http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1588,00.html >The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) >November 20, 1997 >Copyrights and Wrongs >By Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) > While you're cooling your heels in Club Fed, you'll >have plenty of time to consider your misdeeds -- which in >this case could have been making just three copies of Adobe >Photoshop (cost: $389). The legislation covers anyone who >copies compact discs, videocasettes or computer software >worth at least $1,000. The No Electronic Theft Act, which >President Clinton is expected to sign later this month, >will be the first law in the history of the U.S. to >imprison copiers looking to save (not make) a few bucks. It is interesting that while almost the entire body of copyright law deals with materials other then what is to be covered, the industry has enough clout to get their's singled out for the first criminal penalties for violation. This leaves the bulk of copyrighted material, printed material, photographs and the like open to being stolen as does nizkor for example. -=-=- The 2nd guarantees all the rest.

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Re: Report on UN conference on Internet and racism
by Mikhael Frieden 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:12 PM 11/18/97 -0700, Tim May wrote: >At 10:34 PM -0700 11/18/97, Mikhael Frieden wrote: >>At 06:53 PM 11/18/97 -0600, William H. Geiger III wrote: >>>I think that there is plenty of case law of extending constutional >>>protections to non-citizens. One that comes to mind were the rulings >>>against California inwhich the courts ruled the they were obligated to >>>provide schooling and social services to illegal aliens (a really fucked >>>rulling IMNSHO but if some good can come out of it no sense not making use >>>of it). >> In a much more fundamental sense, if they were not given >>constitutional protections they really could be rounded up and bussed >>across the border. >And what would be wrong with this? Not a damned thing. While in this country they are in the act of committing a crime. Once they have been deported they have stopped committing the crime and then they can plead to appear in court. -=-=- The 2nd guarantees all the rest.

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Re: Tim May's offensive racism (was: about RC4) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 23:39:06 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> > Subject: Re: Tim May's offensive racism (was: about RC4) > Homework is for wimps. :-). I work from memory almost all of the time, and > everything I say here can be classified as my opinion, and nothing else. > Most of the things I state as fact are correct, when you root around on > them a bit, like Choate did with the Great Awakening stuff. It's a pity you weren't right though, the 50 year gap in your memory pretty much blows your assertion as well as your reputation to hell. Homework may be for wimps, but they're successful wimps. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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by D. Reynolds 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Seeing Both Sides
by Jim Gillogly 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin says: > Get used to it. I described the cryptoanarchy cult some months ago > (check the archives). The result was a hilarious chorus of letters > assuring me how unique and individualistic cryptoanarchists were. *I'm* not. -- Jim Gillogly Highday, 3 Foreyule S.R. 1997, 16:28 12.19.4.12.11, 7 Chuen 9 Ceh, Eighth Lord of Night

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index.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CNN logo Navigation Infoseek/Big Yellow Pathfinder/Warner Bros Barnes and Noble Main banner [LINK] rule WOMAN, 80, PUT OFF GREYHOUND BECAUSE OF BIRTHDAY-GIFT PUPPY woman with dog November 23, 1997 Web posted at: 6:32 p.m. EST (2332 GMT) TAMPA, Florida (AP) -- The bus was a Greyhound, but the driver was no dog lover. An 80-year-old woman returning home from her birthday party was kicked off a bus at a rural truck stop late at night because of her birthday present: a tiny puppy named Cookie. Dogs aren't allowed on Greyhound and the driver refused to make an exception, leaving Antonia Sanabria at the side of the road about 80 miles from home at 3 a.m. Friday. A security guard summoned by the bus driver called Marion County sheriff's deputies -- adding to her fright. "When the bus pulled away and I saw all those policemen I was scared," Sanabria said. "I thought they were going to put me in jail. I don't know, I was crazy with fear. I've never gone to jail." What could have quickly become a terrifying ordeal for the woman, who walks with a crutch and has trouble hearing and seeing, instead became an inspiration. After getting her a sandwich and something to drink, police from different jurisdictions teamed up to ferry Sanabria all the way from the Ocala area to her Tampa doorstep in five different patrol cars. "I've never seen so many people so nice with me -- an old lady. They gave me love, respect, attention," she said. "Love has a lot of names -- compassion, respect, friendliness." As soon as she got home, all Sanabria wanted to do was sleep, which she did with her new 7-week-old Pekinese pup. When she woke up she found a bouquet of roses with a card that read: "We want you to know there are still some nice people in the world," from Hillsborough sheriff's deputies in Tampa who coordinated the relay. Greyhound apologized and gave her a refund on Saturday. The unidentified driver, a 20-year Greyhound veteran, was suspended pending an investigation. "It's unfortunate that a lady of this age and condition would have something like this happen to her in the middle of the night," said George Gravley, a Greyhound spokesman. Sanabria's daughter, Sally Creel of Panama City, was outraged, saying: "What a low-life thing to do." But after the police rescue, her mother was far from bitter. "It was a birthday I'll never forget," Sanabria said. Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. rule Related site: Note: Pages will open in a new browser window * Greyhound Lines External sites are not endorsed by CNN Interactive. _________________________________________________________________ Infoseek search ____________________ ____ ____ _________________________________________________________________ rule Message Boards Sound off on our message boards You said it... [INLINE] [LINK] rule To the top © 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Terms under which this service is provided to you.

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The Great Awakening - Final Post (hopefully)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jim Choate wrote: >Then you should go back and read them some more. In fact, if you still have >the originals they include in the header the URL where I got the data from. >Take the 10 minutes and go over and take a look at them. All three were >related to religous revivalism in one form or another. The 1st (which >itself some consider to be the second occurance of a previous movement >as indicated in the title) did not occur in the 1800's which was the >original precis that somebody threw out Bob Hettinga said it was in the 1800's. You said you thought it started in the 1500's, going no later than the early 1700's. Bob retorted that he thought you were confusing the Renaissance with the Great Awakening. I chimed in by quoting Norton's Anthology which stated that the period was in the early 18th century. Take 10 minutes to "check the archives." >I did some looking around as well and other then Norton, yourself, and >whoever it was that made the original claim all references I can find to >the Great Awakening refer to the 1700-1750 event(s) as the first one to >occur in the America's. If I can find my Norton Anthology I'll take a >look at it, though it is 15+ years old. If you look back at my post, you will see that this is what I (and Norton) were claiming. The early eighteenth century = the early 1700's! Read my first post which included the quote from Norton's Anthology. In other words, we both agree that the Great Awakening ended by the middle of the eighteenth century (a.k.a., 1700's), not the middle of the nineteenth century (a.k.a., 1800's) as Bob was claiming. >> >Subject: 1st Great Awakening >> [...] >> > X-within-URL: http://www.fourthturning.com/html/great_awakening.html > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > The Great Awakening (Second Turning, 1727-1746) began as a spiritual > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Second Turning" has to due with the cyclical theory that the authors of the web page you cited have written about. The fact is that they refer to that time period (early 1700's/18th c.) as the Great Awakening, not the Second Great Awakening. If you read the other pages at the site *more carefully* you will see that they were stuffing the Great Awakening into their theory under the category named the Second Turning (out of four, thus the site's name: fourthturning.com) Notice your Subject: line says 1st Great Awakening, but that you're using the parenthetically referenced Second Turning as a justification to contradict what I (and you) have been saying all along. What's going on here? How can we have any meaningful discussion on this list when we don't pay any attention to what we are writing or what others wrote? Nerthus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNHTymeFWwZe05jcJAQGyswf+PhJIbFZlR7om8rWF6dogcsJf25bz9mHo OHj5k0j7RuEzx0s2j17Ico2ZckWOAdVhwg1fv9AWo4om1lUmysxpqTUHineJk3M2 A2Mw+Y9ogMps1V9nrrVsGmDswKulmBMA222XT8v6Si0X3r4D19qgSRqgH4rs8qs2 as51/AqxEeayx+Yphskys0HsU8ZjY/4w76dZP/TbakwWT+R5V4Yx3yQkcnsxh+iR Rk0D0q13SIk0xnc2+Ao3jkD0Og+t/QXFNLAjhXmlNHhvGvC8dcDHZuA7Lf3SAPcw Yp5qCyrTGBH1Gi0OEABHapg18Yo5WlwHx0nStKN3nl1z2vPJQdEbLQ== =GaMe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^^^^ Dig that!

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My last comment on Great Awakening...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, It has been claimed that the original claim by Bob and anonymous was that the first Great Awakening ended by the late 18'th century. This is a complete fabrication. The original claim put forth clearly references dates in the 1800's as the date of the first instance, clearly 50-100 years in error from the original Great Awakening that occurred between 1700-1750. In my original posting I (thought) made it clear that I didn't quite know when the original event occurred but was certain it ended prior to the late 1700's which would clearly pre-date the original claim. I subsequently took the time to provide references for those citation and clearly indicated where my memory was in error, and even took the time to explain my confusion regarding the 'Beacon on the Hill' movement. In responce Bob and apparently anonymous made it clear that they saw no reason to do 'homework' irrespective of the impact of historical accuracy on their claims. Make up your own mind on the validity of the claims. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Boys, 13, charged with E-mail threat to Hillary
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sunday, November 23, 1997 - 20:40:28 MET >From the Orange County Register: Two 13-year-old boys are charged with sending a threatening e-mail message over the Internet to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Contents of the electronic mail message to the first lady haven't been released, but U.S. Secret Service agents are expected to outline themn during a hearing Monday in Juvenile Court in Cordova, Tenn. The youngsters, charged with threatening and harassing Mrs. Clinton, could face a fine, counseling, community service or detention.

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Russ Alberry/CAUCE vs. the Cypherpunks (was: Re: RESULT: comp.org.cauc
by lcs Mixmaster Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

mindspring.com> <slrn676p9b.728.ichudov(a)manifold.algebra.com> <m3hg981owi.fsf@w Russ Allbery <rra(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > * I am specifically pissed at Igor about trolling for votes on random ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > newsgroups and on Cypherpunks. I am not pissed at him for disliking ^^^^^^^^^^^ > the moderation policy; he's entirely entitled to dislike the moderation > policy and vote accordingly. > > * If he keeps trolling for votes on Cypherpunks to defeat random ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > moderated group proposals he doesn't happen to like for one reason or > another, I'll keep doing what I can to counter his propaganda campaigns > (and judging from this result, I think it's fairly obvious that he'll > continue losing and may in fact help a few groups *pass* that wouldn't > have otherwise just by being as annoying as he was this time). In what sense are you using the word "trolling"? Are you saying that the mention of a proposal to ban anonymity is considered "trolling" when posted amongst a group of pro-privacy, pro-anonymity individuals such as the Cypherpunks? Or are you objecting, in general, to the mention of a proposal to ANY group that's not likely to favor it? Why should a proposal to require the disclosure of a poster's e-mail address (and its contribution to the address harvesters) as a pre-requisite to express an opinion not itself be fully disclosed and discussed? Were you counting on slipping that rule through unnoticed? Why is publicly disagreeing with you considered a "propaganda campaign"? Why should the C.A.U.C.E. brand of propaganda be the only variety allowed? When I first heard of the C.A.U.C.E., my initial thought was that it was a good idea. Finally a means to fight back against the spammers. Now I'm starting to wonder what sort of agenda is driving some of these illogical anti-privacy requirements. As bad as spam and UCE has become, one does have to make sure that each proposed cure isn't worse than the disease itself. For example, you *COULD* remedy the problem of criminals carrying concealed weapons by requiring everyone to walk the streets naked... --

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