- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

RE: DNA
by Richard.Bragg＠ssa.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DNA testing can never prove anything. It can rule out someone completely and statistically make it very unlikely to be anyone else. But what about identical sib's. They all have exactly the same DNA! There are cases of such children where one becomes a pillar of society and the other less so. A DNA database would allow loads of stuff to be done. How about a designed disease or toxin that only affects certain gene carriers. This could be added to the food chain at any time you wanted to incapacitate a particular person or group of people without comprimising any one else. Fun hmmm!!!

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Hello, >The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in >a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted >to the Cypherpunks mailing list. This e-mail address was noted to be one >of those which receives the Cypherpunks list. I would appreciate it if >you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us >in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the >Cypherpunks list. You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503) >326-2787. Sorry, but I am not aware of any threating messages posted to this list. Of course I can see how your organization may consider calls by the citizens for a return to a Constitutional government a "threat". I woun't be calling you but I will be calling my congressman and senator in the morning reaffirming my support for a flat tax and the abolishment of the IRS. Have a nice day, I am TOTOCUS!!

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No Subject
by celltel＠mailexcite.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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by lar＠compwebtech.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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RE: DNA
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> But what about identical sib's. They all > have exactly the same DNA! Or a clone ;). Matt

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RE: DNA
by Brown, R Ken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike Motyka wrote: > I'm not a biochemist Neither am I but I'm going to classes... > I think modern DNA analysis yields data that bear more > resemblance to a spectrum than anything else. In this > case there is always a good possibility for error. > Remember how large a project the Human Genome > thing is? That is an actual sequencing project. AFAIK police & courts don't use actual sequencing but DNA "typing" or "fingerprinting" - they extract certain well-known genes, a tiny subset of all that are there, and compare them with reference samples. You don't have to actually "read" a gene to be able to match it with another one. The genes they used aren't ones that are expressed either. They are if you like the "comments in the code". Or more likely graffitti because they don't seem to mean much. You can't "prove" that a sample did come from a named individual, but you can prove that it *didn't*. Which is why DNA testing has been popular with defence lawyers in this country (UK) because it has been used by the defence to get people released in a number of famous trials. (There was one poor bloke who got let out of prison after over 20 years when DNA typing showed he couldn't have committed the crime for which he had been convivted. He hadn't been released on parole because to get parole you have to show some contrition and he always claimed he was innocent). You can give a likelihood that a sample came from the same person as another sample though. Or their twin, or parents et.c et.c. It's also been used to get past our notoriously racist immigration officials. They tend to assume that anyone coming into this country as the spouse or parent of a citizen is lying (especially for Asians - they assume that all marriage are arranged or "marriages of convenience" - for some reason white Americans and especially Australians don't have nearly so much trouble.). DNA typing has been used by immigrants to show that they are (probably) the parent. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~cbbc/courses/bio4/bio4-1997/KatieLachter.html has some bumf about DNA evidence in US courts (you are much more suspicios of it than we are) http://www.emf.net/~iisme/actionplans/201.html has instructions for do-it-yourself DNA typing! Unfortunatly it requires equipment you are unlikely to have at home (& do US universities *really* issue such detailed instructions for lab work? "Raise your hand. Move it over the pencil. Move it down until the fingers are in contact with the pencil. Close your fingers round the pencil. Why is it important not to exert too much force with the fingers? Pick up the pencil. Remember the point is sharp and may have been exposed to potentially carcinogenic solvents. Do not stab any part of yourself or any other student. Do not place the point near your eyes, mouth or genitalia. Do not use the pencil in the presence of any minor under the age of 18, or any vertebrate experimental animals, pets or livestock. Do not hand the pencil to anyone not covered by the college's insurance scheme or who has not signed the standard disclaimer form..." OK, I exagerrate. But not much.) Within 20 years techniques that are now restricted to university labs and pharmeceutical companies will be available to the hobbyist. Maybe bio-hacking will be as influential in our kids lives as computer-hacking has been in ours. > And pattern analysis will identify the guilty before they > even think about committing an offense. > Hell, they'll probably be able to ID the bad ones from > samples coerced/stolen at birth and then all future > opportunity and resource allocation will be effectively > decided by the government, inc. Again, current methods don't identify genes just show how much they resemble those of another sample. And they mostly use DNA that is not transcribed anyway. So they tell you nothing about what a person looked like. Of course the stuff coming out of the genome project (which is having the same effect on molecular biology that the cold war had on rocket science, or the discovery of America on navigation, or the railways had on steam technology) will probably change all that Real Soon Now. There are at least 3 or 4 new methiods that are being introduced this year. > Could it be that a single sample of DNA can be used > to produce a large supply of that DNA which could then > be used to fabricate evidence? PCR can multiply the size of a sample many thousandfold in a day. Ken Brown

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Thank you for your inquiry
by 11471..201＠compusub.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is your free issue of the Global Media and Corporate Relations newsletter. In order to continue to receive the GMCR News you must reserve your place in our news server by one of the methods below. If this newsletter has reached your mailbox in error, do nothing and you will receive no further contact. Visit http://www.corporaterelations.com and sign in to reserve your place in our news server. or Email to gmcr-list(a)corporaterelations.com ; include the words 'join gmcr-news' in the body of the message. GLOBAL MEDIA AND CORPORATE RELATIONS NEWS GMCR is dedicated to bringing you the most timely critical investment information about new issues, IPO's, small cap stocks and special opportunities that simply cannot be found elsewhere. All of the investment opportunities presented here are thoroughly screened by our experienced team of investment professionals. Each of our client companies has undergone a stringent due diligence process to insure that the investment potential is a bona fide GMCR opportunity. One Asian Tiger Roars as the Others Roll Over and Play Dead For the first half of 1998, U.S. electronics exports to Asia dropped 12% in the face of various economic crises and currency devaluations in the Pacific Rim that saw country economies falling like dominos. The culprits: Indonesian imports down 64%, Korean down 37%, Thai down 26%, and Japanese imports down 14%. So how did the U.S. semiconductor manufacturers fair overall? Total semiconductor sales worldwide were only down .38% because Eastern Europe, Mexico, Canada and China increased their purchases at the expense of their Asian counterparts. China, one of the Asian Tigers, escaped the crisis conditions unscathed, actually increasing their imports of U.S. semiconductor products by 50% during the first half of this year according to industry sources. China's tight control over its currency allowed it to escape the problems that slashed fifty cents on the dollar out of the other Asian Tiger currencies. While the other countries worried about currency devaluations and layoffs in industry, China quietly ramped up production in their three "golden" markets: telecommunication, consumer electronics and home appliances grabbing market share along the way. FEATURED COMPANY Our feature company this month is Micronics International, Inc (OTC:BB MCIK). Micronics International (MCIK) has been undervalued with the recent Asian crisis driving stocks lower. Timing is right for Micronics International (MCIK) to rocket upward propelled by a burgeoning Chinese semiconductor market. Their current mission is to take advantage of the large Chinese government incentives to moev electronic manufacturing from the coast to the interior of the country. Micronics is locating their new offices in the heart of these new centers of industry. The company will be perfectly positioned for a buy-out or merger with a larger U.S. semiconductor distributor looking for an established marketing channel into China, soon to be the worlds' biggest market for semiconductor products. Micronics (MCIK) is the Second Largest U.S. Distributor of semiconductors into the Chinese telecommunications, consumer electronics and home appliance manufacturing sectors. The company has established both close relationships with the government and permanent offices within their borders. The Chinese must import 94% of integrated circuit needs and their buying has INCREASED 50% during the Asian Crisis! Micronics (MCIK) is rocketing upward because: * The 1998 Chinese import market for chips? Over six billion units. * First half of 1998 showed a 50% increase in U.S. semiconductor imports into China, 10% higher than was predicted by industry insiders. * Industry forecasts for semiconductor sales: $120 billion 2005, $550 billion 2010, World's largest market by 2015. * A $50 billion plus semiconductor market in China is projected to grow at a 40% rate the next seven years! * The semiconductor market has grown steadily, 25% per year, for the last ten years in lockstep with increased U.S. imports into China! * Over 60 years of combined semiconductor marketing experience among the Micronics officers. * Micronics has excellent government and local factory contacts in China through a professional sales force. * The low cost provider to the market through strategic purchases of key stocks. * Long term relationships with U.S. proprietary chip manufacturers and smaller U.S. distributors focusing on telecommunications, computers and energy conservation, Micronics' key markets. * The U.S. semiconductor companies have a solid 10% of the China market * Very few American distributors are willing and able to crack the China distribution market. The only competitor of note is Arrow Electronics who does approximately $120 million in sales a year in China. * Many U.S. companies want in China, Micronics is positioned as a possible acquisition or marketing channel.

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RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en ds
by Brown, R Ken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Matthew James Gering[SMTP:mgering@ecosystems.net] replied to a long > rant, as by "Martinus Luther": > >> something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism". > Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the > obvious fallacy that wealth is a static sum. It is not, wealth > must be *created* before it exists to plunder and share. Every libertarian or cypherpunk ought to have read "The Servile State" by Hilaire Belloc. It is long polemic against socialism (or what Belloc thought was Socialism), the welfare state & so on. Your ranter obviously hads read the book, and in that context what is being distributed is *land*, as private property to be lived on, farmed and passed on to children. > Abstract wealth and divorce it from the creator and you > eliminate the motive to create. You can only live from plundered > wealth so long before you slip into oblivion (see the Soviet Union). I think Belloc would agree with you 100%. See http://www.cs.wesleyan.edu/HTML/Grad_links/mdemarco/gkc/distrib/ for links to pages on Distributivism. Distributivism is usually regarded as a right-wing, conservative political philosophy. Chesterton and Belloc didn't invent it but they popularised it. It derived partly from a distaste for the State, industry, trade unions and the modern world in general; partly from an admiration of traditional rural life; partly from the English Christian Socialism of the 19th century & partly from the Biblical idea of the Jubilee, when debts were cancelled and the land redivided amongst the families of the tribe. It is based on the idea that only free men who own their own land and house really have a stake in society or a chance at a good life. So in an ideal world ownership of property would be distributed as widely as possible (hence the name). Distributivists, always a small an uninfluential group, are divided as to how this desirable state of affairs can be brought about. Some want to achieve it gradually, through education and legislation and an increasing influence of the Roman Catholic church. These ones, following in the footsteps of Belloc (an ultra-nationalist, an anti-semite & in his old age a grumpy bigot), drifted farther and farther to the right, often becoming little different from Fascists. Recently they have become associated with the "Third Way" (i.e neither Socialism not Capitalism) a confused mish-mash of political positions that probably started as a self-justification by some milder Fascists but is now associated with Tony Blair and the British "New Labour" government. Some other Distributivists thought that the people should rise up and occupy the land, taking it from its current owners, whether the rich or the state. This philosophy is pretty indistinguishable from the English far-left Socialism of people like William Morris, drawing inspiration from agrarian revolts throughout history from the Peasant's Revolt to Gerard Winstanley and the Diggers. It isn't very different - apart from its explicitly Christian roots - from the Syndicalism of Joe Hill and the wobblies, or the position of some modern-day Left Anarchists such as the ones associated with the Solidarity Federation. They often say the same things, using different jargon. (The Distributivists looked backward to the middle ages & mainly talked about land, agriculture and small crafts. When they paid any attention to industry, other than to say they didn't like it, they made vague handwavings about "guilds", i.e. local trade-based co-operatives, owning factories. The Syndicalists looked forward to the 20th century, and were mainly interested in industry. When they bothered to talk about agriculture they wanted land farmed in small plots each by an owner occupier - "3 acres and a cow" again - except that in America where everything has to be bigger they made it "30 acres and a cow") To be honest it isn't that different from the position of a lot of Old Labour lefties like me - except we aren't revolutionaries either which leaves us in a bit of a fix... Chesterton was never a Socialist and probably never a revolutionary but he was often a Liberal (in the English sense) and was at least on speaking terms with Socialists and Anarchists (of whose politics he disapproved greatly) If you haven't read "The Servile State" you should. In fact if you haven't read Belloc you should. Not a great writer, not always even a good one, but very, very interesting. Of course I'm biased. In the early years of this century Belloc and Chesterton (& many other writers such as Henry James, Rudyard Kipling, S. Fowler Wright (you really have to be weird to remember him), E.C. Benson and A.A. Milne (the Hundred Acre Wood is just 20 miles from where I was born)) were almost fanatical admirers of my own home county of Sussex in England :-) And they wrote some really OTT poetry to show how good it all was. Ken Brown (about as off-topic as you can get on a Tuesday). The South Country When I am living in the Midlands That are sodden and unkind, I light my lamp in the evening: My work is left behind; And the great hills of the South Country Come back into my mind. The great hills of the South Country They stand along the sea; And it's there walking in the high woods That I could wish to be, And the men that were boys when I was a boy Walking along with me. The men that live in North England I saw them for a day: Their hearts are set upon the waste fells, Their skies are fast and grey; From their castle-walls a man may see The mountains far away. The men that live in West England They see the Severn strong, A-rolling on rough water brown Light aspen leaves along. They have the secret of the Rocks, And the oldest kind of song. But the men that live in the South Country Are the kindest and most wise, They get their laughter from the loud surf, And the faith in their happy eyes Comes surely from our Sister the Spring When over the sea she flies; The violets suddenly bloom at her feet, She blesses us with surprise. I never get between the pines But I smell the Sussex air; Nor I never come on a belt of sand But my home is there. And along the sky the line of the Downs So noble and so bare. A lost thing could I never find, Nor a broken thing mend: And I fear I shall be all alone When I get towards the end. Who will there be to comfort me Or who will be my friend? I will gather and carefully make my friends Of the men of the Sussex Weald; They watch the stars from silent folds, They stiffly plough the field. By them and the God of the South Country My poor soul shall be healed. If I ever become a rich man, Or if ever I grow to be old, I will build a house with deep thatch To shelter me from the cold, And there shall the Sussex songs be sung And the story of Sussex told. I will hold my house in the high wood Within a walk of the sea, And the men that were boys when I was a boy Shall sit and drink with me. Matilda Matilda told such Dreadful Lies, It made one Gasp and Stretch one's Eyes; Her Aunt, who, from her Earliest Youth, Had kept a Strict Regard for Truth, Attempted to Believe Matilda: The effort very nearly killed her, And would have done so, had not She Discovered this Infirmity. For once , towards the Close of Day, Matilda, growing tired of play And finding she was left alone, Went tiptoe to the Telephone, And summoned the Immediate Aid Of London's Noble Fire-Brigade. Within an hour the Gallant Band Were pouring in on every hand, >From Putney,Hackney Downs, and Bow With Courage high and Hearts a-glow They galloped, roaring through the Town, `Matilda's House is Burning Down!' Inspired by British Cheers and Loud Proceeding from the Frenzied Crowd, They ran their ladders through a score Of windows on the Ball Room Floor; And took Peculiar Pains to Souse The Pictures up and down the House, Until Matilda's Aunt succeeded In showing them they were not needed; And even then she had to pay To get the Men to go away! It happened that a few Weeks later Her Aunt was off to the Theatre To see that Interesting Play The Second Mrs Tanqueray. She had refused to take her Niece To hear this Entertaining Piece: A Deprivation Just and Wise To Punish her for Telling Lies. That Night a Fire did break out - You should have heard Matilda Shout! You should have heard her Scream and Bawl, And throw the window up and call To People passing in the Street - (The rapidly increasing Heat Encouraging her to obtain Their confidence) - but all in vain! For every time She shouted `Fire!' They only answered `Little Liar'! And therefore when her Aunt returned, Matilda, and the House, were Burned.

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anti-spam lesson Re: Earn your worth not mlm!!! 330-258-9131
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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son (Gomez is coming!)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Son of Mother Of All Chapters -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! _________________________________________________________ July, 1948: The moment has come when the costumes, the grease paint, the falsely colored scenery, the technicolored spotlights and all the other artifices of makeYDup should be put aside and, in the interest of truth, the solid facts about the play and the players revealed to the people. ~ The Roosevelt Myth, Preface to the Popsvox PublishingR edition Dec. 7, 1941 The Lake of Life has started to turn over. The bottom is rising to the top, the top is descending to the bottom, and everything is becoming the opposite of what it seems to be. ~ Vice-Admiral B. D'Shauneaux, USN ~~~ ~~~ Version 1.7, Rev B: Saturday morning, March 4, 1933...the conquering Democrats poured into the city... Only a week before an assassin's bullet had barely missed Roosevelt. It struck Anton Cermak, the Bohemian mayor and boss of Chicago, who with Al Smith, had opposed Roosevelt's nomination...and died a few days later. Version 2.7, Rev. 3: On February 1, 1933, in Miami, Florida Giuseppe Zangara fired five shots a President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was making an impromptu speech while sitting in an open car that had stopped momentarily. Although none of the shots hit President Roosevelt, Zangara mortally wounded Anton Cermak, the Mayor of Chicago, and hit four other people, including a Secret Service agent. Version 3.9, Rev. 2-B: On February 15, 1933, Zangara attended a speech given by Roosevelt at Bayfront Park in Miami, Florida. When Roosevelt had finished his talk and was preparing to leave, Zangara pulled out a pistol and opened fire. Zangara wounded five people who had been near the president-elect, two of them seriously. Most critically injured was Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak, who was struck by the bullet in the chest which then lodged in his spine. Version 4.9, Rev. 8C: The parade car moved slowly down the street as President-elect Roosevelt and Mayor Cermak smiled and waved. The car stopped and President-elect Roosevelt gave a speech while sitting on the back of the car. A man named Guiseppe Zangara pushed through the crowd. He fired five shots at the President-elect. The bullets hit four people and Mayor Cermak. Version 15.6, Rev. 7: On March 6, Mayor Cermak died from complications stemming from the shooting. The same day Zangara was indicted by a grand jury and charged with first degree murder in the death of Cermak. His trial began on March 9 and ended on March 11 with a guilty verdict and a death sentence. The prisoner was transported to the Florida State Prison at Raiford, where he was executed on March 20, 1933. Version 18.9, Rev. 5D: Mayor Anton J. Cermak died three weeks later, on March 8, 1933. His body was taken back to Chicago and buried in the Bohemian National Cemetery. Guiseppe Zangara was executed in the electric chair on March 21, 1933. That was only 13 days after Mayor Cermak died. Version 32.9, Rev. 12: Consider the case of Guiseppe Zangara, who was executed in 1933 for the attempted assassination of President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt in which Chicago Mayor Anton J. Cermak was fatally shot. Zangara pleaded guilty in state court on March 10, was sentenced to death, and was executed on March 20 -- an interval of 10 days! Version 82, Rev. 5Q: After Roosevelt had delivered a speech in Florida on February 14, 1938, Guiseppe Zangara, an unemployed bricklayer, fired six shots from a handgun at Roosevelt from twelve yards away. The president-elect, who was sitting in an open car, was uninjured but five other people were shot, including Chicago mayor Anton Cernak, who was killed. Version 95, Rev. 8: On February 15, 1933, Guiseppe Zangara rose early...

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