- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Altered phone cards?
by Harmon Seaver 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

Anybody heard of this before, or know how it's done? "And "Mr Tanaka" has good reason to be wary. He and his three friends are illegally selling phone cards that have been altered so they can be re-used." http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/671844D1-95C9-4BEF-903C-155B2E948C59… -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!

1 0

Re: On Needing Killing
by Major Variola (ret) 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

At 05:38 AM 4/11/04 -0400, An Metet wrote: >> And the responsibles need killing. > >No, they don't. > >There are two alternative solutions to the problem of restrictions on >information flow, or more generally restrictions on any sort of voluntary >and cooperative activity. One is to use force to fight back, even to >the point of killing the perpetrators. This is what you are advocating >when you say they "need killing". When faced with force, you reply with force when you can. >The other is to evade the restrictions. This does not involve killing, >force, or violence of any sort. Cryptography is an ideal tool for this >purpose. It allows people to communicate and exchange data even when >outsiders want them to stop. Via digital cash they can even contract >together, and buy and sell information and services. BlackNet is intended >to be an example of how this could work. Correct. But the existence of technical means for playing with bits and hiding from oppression does not change the ethics of the material world. When the State's otherwise legitimate monopoly on force is abused the appropriate response is not to hope the oppressors go away. When the Jews were put in the ghettos, an abuse of State force, the appropriate response was more than merely publishing anonymous flyers or mumbling in secret languages. There are times when agents have earned killing. Blacknet is a robust archive for words, immune to force (by State or private actors), but merely words. ----- "How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?" --Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago

4 3

Re: On Needing Killing
by Tyler Durden 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

Eric Cordian wrote... "Can I be the list's new Crusty Retired Engineer now?" Why, did you retire recently? -TD >From: Eric Cordian <emc(a)artifact.psychedelic.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)minder.net >Subject: Re: On Needing Killing >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:58:50 -0700 (PDT) > >Justin writes: > > > With all due respect to the principle of freedom of speech and all that, > > I think that cypherpunks, and people in general, give far too little > > respect to words, as if words are a vague, unimportant, and remote link > > in the chain of causation of acts or failure-to-acts. I don't see > > anything wrong with Orwell's view that words control the future's view > > of history. His certainly have. > >Words depend greatly on context. The meaning of words here on the >Cypherpunks list, is different than their meaning in the New York Times. > >If someone said "up the chimneys with the inner-city welfare mutants" in >the New York Times, there would be mass rioting in the streets. > >I find this with a lot of my stuff that gets taken from this list and >posted in places that I would have written it much differently for, had >those places been its original destination. > >So - what happened to Tim? Can I be the list's new Crusty Retired >Engineer now? > >-- >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" > _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

1 0

On Killing Blaster
by Tyler Durden 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

"When faced with force, you reply with force when you can." Nah. This isn't even true in a fistfight, except when the guy you're fighting is a) significantly smaller than you, and b) less trained. More often than not, if someone attacks you, it's because they either have or perceive themselves to have an overwhelmingly superior force. In such a situation it's often best to run. Barring that, then "soft" methods are by far the best alternative, but soft methods normally require intelligence, or at least the ability to utilize an opponent's force against him (I think I can unequivocally state that I have had the opportunity to test such a principal here on the streets of NYC). And of course, if it's possible to diarm your opponent without actually killing or maiming him, that's sometimes far more appropriate...reference 'Aikido' and remember the unmasked "MasterBlaster". Every once in a while, somebody makes a mistake they eventually regret. As someone said better than myself, Crypto is one little tool in an aresenal against "Men with Guns"...in the end Men With Guns will probably try to shoot away bits, but it's not going to work too well. Meanwhile, P2P, WiFi, Crypto,and lots of other stuff will slowly start to chip away at things on the edges, until the core is exposed. -TD >From: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv(a)cdc.gov> >To: "cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net> >Subject: Re: On Needing Killing >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:42:58 -0700 > >At 05:38 AM 4/11/04 -0400, An Metet wrote: > >> And the responsibles need killing. > > > >No, they don't. > > > >There are two alternative solutions to the problem of restrictions on > >information flow, or more generally restrictions on any sort of >voluntary > >and cooperative activity. One is to use force to fight back, even to > >the point of killing the perpetrators. This is what you are advocating > > >when you say they "need killing". > >When faced with force, you reply with force when you can. > > >The other is to evade the restrictions. This does not involve killing, > > >force, or violence of any sort. Cryptography is an ideal tool for this > > >purpose. It allows people to communicate and exchange data even when > >outsiders want them to stop. Via digital cash they can even contract > >together, and buy and sell information and services. BlackNet is >intended > >to be an example of how this could work. > >Correct. But the existence of technical means for playing with bits and > >hiding from oppression does not change the ethics of the material world. > >When the State's otherwise legitimate monopoly on force is abused >the appropriate response is not to hope the oppressors go away. > >When the Jews were put in the ghettos, an abuse of State force, >the appropriate response was more than merely publishing anonymous >flyers >or mumbling in secret languages. There are times when agents have >earned killing. > >Blacknet is a robust archive for words, immune to force >(by State or private actors), but merely words. > >----- >"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things >have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to >make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?" >--Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago > > _________________________________________________________________ Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp

1 0

Re: On Needing Killing
by Riad S. Wahby 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

An Metet <anmetet(a)freedom.gmsociety.org> wrote: > This stuff should be Cypherpunks 101. ...along with Assassination Politics. I've always taken "X needs killing" to be a statement to the effect that same had earned himself an AP-style contract, if only such a thing existed. While your point is good, inasmuch as it's important to realize that many illegitimate restrictions on liberty can be circumvented with cpunk technologies, there are other ramifications that are just as meaningful. With widespread adoption of cpunk technologies comes the demonopolization of force, the anonymity necessary for AP-style contract markets, &c. It's inevitable---even if {you, the government, whomever} doesn't like the idea of such uses of cpunk technologies--- that these things will spring up. After all, there will likely be great demand for them, and cpunk tech will have enabled them in just the same way it's enabled circumvention of other restrictions on liberty. It's useful to be reminded what the cpunks will have wrought. Like it or not, "needs killing" is likely to remain a fixture around here. -- Riad Wahby rsw(a)jfet.org MIT VI-2 M.Eng

1 0

VPN VoIP
by Eugen Leitl 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

I've been installing a Draytek Vigor 2900 router at work lately, and found a line of models which do VoIP (router with analog phone jacks on them). They also support VPN router-router, and come with DynDNS clients. I thought I've seen VoIP over VPN being mentioned, but I can't find it right now. They're reasonably priced, and have pretty good online support: http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/ I've also been looking at them from vulnerabilities angle, but couldn't find much. Not even which embedded OS they run on. No glaring remote exploit holes yet reported. Everyone has seen http://www.skype.com/download_pda.html right? -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

3 4

Spy agency launches recruiting campaign
by R. A. Hettinga 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

<http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/8403065.htm?template=contentModu…> Posted on Sat, Apr. 10, 2004 Spy agency launches recruiting campaign Associated Press WASHINGTON - The highly secretive National Security Agency is looking to hire 7,500 workers over the next five years in the spy agency's largest recruiting campaign since the 1980s. A release posted on the agency's Web site said NSA plans to hire 1,500 workers by September, and another 1,500 in each of the next four years. Those with specialties in foreign languages, especially Arabic and Chinese, were encouraged to apply. NSA said it was boosting its staff "to meet the increasing needs of the ever-changing intelligence community." The agency, an element of the Defense Department based at Fort Meade in Maryland, conducts electronic wiretapping and signals gathering for foreign intelligence purposes. NSA and other intelligence agencies came under scrutiny after the Sept. 11 terror attacks for apparent failures and missteps that critics say might have prevented officials from unraveling the hijacking plot. A joint congressional inquiry report released last summer faulted the intelligence agencies for being unprepared to handle the challenge it faced in translating the volumes of foreign language counterterror intelligence it collected. Law enforcement officials have said that among the millions of intercepts the NSA gathered on Sept. 10, 2001, were two Arabic-language messages that warned of a major event the next day. The Arabic messages were not translated until Sept. 12. ON THE NET National Security Agency: http://www.nsa.gov ) 2004 AP Wire and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.mercurynews.com -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

2 1

NYTimes
by Riad S. Wahby 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

Apparently someone signed up cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net for a NYTimes ID. Member ID and password are both joecypher. Have fun. -- Riad Wahby rsw(a)jfet.org MIT VI-2 M.Eng

1 0

On Needing Killing
by An Metet 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

Major Variola writes: > I don't know about your anecdote, but Mr. May's original point > was that the law *requires* companies to forget. Which is > of course an illegitimate intrusion of the state into private affairs. > > And the responsibles need killing. No, they don't. There are two alternative solutions to the problem of restrictions on information flow, or more generally restrictions on any sort of voluntary and cooperative activity. One is to use force to fight back, even to the point of killing the perpetrators. This is what you are advocating when you say they "need killing". The other is to evade the restrictions. This does not involve killing, force, or violence of any sort. Cryptography is an ideal tool for this purpose. It allows people to communicate and exchange data even when outsiders want them to stop. Via digital cash they can even contract together, and buy and sell information and services. BlackNet is intended to be an example of how this could work. The point is that BlackNet and other early Cypherpunk concepts were intended to be based on the second approach, that of avoiding restrictions via cryptographic protections. BlackNet does not seek out and kill people who try to shut it down. It simply continues to exist and operate, very profitably, despite the efforts of its opponents. In a world where things like BlackNet can exist, the people who want to stop it don't need to be killed, because their actions are ineffective. We don't kill the crazy men who rant and rave in parks and on sidewalks. We may pity them, we may even try to help them, but we don't kill them. Similarly, if Cypherpunk technology succeeds, those who try to stop communication from occuring will be no more important or effective in achieving their goals. This stuff should be Cypherpunks 101. Not even that; it should be Kindergarten for Cypherpunks. Re-read (or read for the first time!) the Cryptoanarchist Manifesto. There's nothing in there about killing those responsible for restricting freedom. Rather, the entire essay is about how the new technologies will allow people to communicate and interact with privacy and security. The same is true of the Cypherpunk's Manifesto; again, it is about using software to defend privacy with cryptographic anonymity. There's no bloodlust in either of these essays. These were the founding documents of the Cypherpunk movement. It was only after many years that some Cypherpunks took a detour into advocacy of violence. In large part this was due to the influence of Tim May, who as time went by became increasingly bitter and hateful. Perhaps he had personal disappointments; in particular it seemed that the failure of his more apocalyptic Y2K predictions was an embarrassment which he took to covering with bluster and rage. May became a loud, authoritative and dominating voice calling for violent retribution against government agents or anyone whom he saw as a threat or enemy. Inevitably, he brought into the list people who felt the same way, and drove away many who could not stand the anger and hatred which were being expressed so openly. His increasingly common racist rhetoric, whether sincere or merely provocative, played a further role in sending away some and, sadly, drawing in others. The community changed, until today Cypherpunks are known as a community which sees that its enemies "need killing". It's almost a defining characteristic. The original goals of cryptoanarchy, privacy, anonymity, reputation systems, and efforts to explore the underlying technology, are largely forgotten. But now it seems that there might be an opportunity for change. With the departure of Tim May, a cloud seems to have lifted. Perhaps it will be possible to reinvigorate the community, to give it new purpose and new goals. At a minimum, can we try to move beyond defining ourselves by how many enemies we think "need killing"? That was never what Cypherpunks were supposed to be about.

1 0

RE: legally required forgetting
by Major Variola (ret) 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

At 11:18 AM 4/10/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: >What the law actually states is (basically) a defaulted loan must be >forgiven after seven years. In other words, it is illegal to continue to >attempt to collect on a loan, 7 years after the default. > >However, it is perfectly legal to remember that an individual failed to pay >back a loan. In practice, this means that a large brand-name Credit Card >company can choose not to send an offer to someone that defaulted 10 years >ago. Thanks for the distinction, however it still makes CC folks slaves of the State. Suppose Joe Badcredit finds a blank application and applies? The State then uses violence to coerce the CC into non-consensual transactions. >>And the responsibles need killing. > >Well, in a lot of cases I agreed with May's sentiment, even if I'm not >entirely sure this would do much. However, as for putting the Jews and >blacks up chimneys, well add to that what appears to be an almost State >Corporatism stance, First, no one (but you) mentioned subcultures, which is what TM typically referred to (not subraces). Second, corporations generally welcome anyone with money to buy their stuff, even if the corp folks don't condone the culture of the buyers. Not sure what you mean by 'state corporatism', which sounds like euphemized state collectivism. >But those are side issues. At least, aside from the technical content, I >still view May's harshest rantings as a sort of Fredom of Speech acid >test...if one would try to forcibly or legally shut him down, then one >probably "needs killing". Freedom is only tested when you find it objectionable. (And BTW you're the one injecting some of Tim's other rants; why?) Those who use violence against others (deprivation of freedom) have earned the same. Especially if its state violence. Dig? PS: I saw a bit of news on pills to help people forget. Eg to help avoid post traumatic stress. One of the more objectionable objections to this was that witnesses might become unreliable. As if the state had some right to force you to remember something. (And tequila works pretty well although you need to get inside the consolidation window.)

2 1