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[gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
by R.A. Hettinga 23 Jul '08

23 Jul '08

Begin forwarded message: > From: Adam Selene <dgc(a)lunacity.org> > Date: July 21, 2008 4:26:12 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > > This just went public @ http://blog.e-gold.com/ > > > > A New Beginning <http://blog.e-gold.com/2008/07/a-new-beginning.html > > > > November 2008 will mark the 12th anniversary of e-gold's debut as an > alternative global payment system enabling Users - individuals or > businesses - to receive payment in gold at extremely low cost and > without risk of the sort of payment reversals that characterize all > credit based systems. > > e-gold has been a pioneer in numerous areas and I am proud of its > innovative accomplishments. Since 1996, the Internet has witnessed > multiple online payment initiatives, several of them funded with > $20-90 million of start-up capital, with distinguished founders and > executive cadre, high profile brand name strategic allies, and > favorable reception in the business press. But whereas Digicash, > Cybercash, Beenz, Flooz, Peppercoin and a host of others each was > promoted as the next big thing, all of them combined cumulatively > [in their original incarnations - some have been restructured into > other business models] executed less transaction volume than e-gold > did in a typical single quarter. > > But this note is not about success. It is about e-gold's failure to > date to emerge, its failure to transition from a marginal player for > early adopters to a respected institution integrated into the global > financial mainstream. I am talking about a vision that has not yet > been realized and a determination to fix what needs to be improved. > > e-gold's failure to emerge so far is a result of many factors but > the root causes were design flaws in the account creation and > provisioning logic that led to the unfortunate consequence of > vulnerability to criminal abuse. Criminal abuse of the e-gold > system, in turn, led to a self-reinforcing negative reputation. > > Ultimately, criminal abuse of e-gold reached the point where the US > Department of Justice intervened, bringing criminal charges against > e-gold Ltd., Gold & Silver Reserve., Inc., (the Operator of e-gold > and also of the online exchange service OmniPay), myself, and the > other directors for violations of 18 USC 1960 [Operation of an > unlicensed Money Transmitting Business] and 18 USC 1956 [Conspiracy > to Commit Money Laundering]. The criminal case has been resolved. > The resolution of the criminal case however provides for a second > chance, an opportunity to address the flaws embedded in the e-gold > system and to transform the "e-gold Operation" into the institutions > I, the other directors, and our longsuffering employees and > contractors have always envisioned, one that serves to advance the > material welfare of mankind. > > In harmony with this transformation, we acknowledge that e-gold is > indeed a Financial Institution or Agency as defined in US law and > should be regulated as a Financial Institution. E-gold Ltd. has > submitted an application to FinCEN to be registered as a Money > Services Business and will be seeking licensure in all states that > require it. Most importantly, working in conjunction with US > government agencies, we will be exerting every effort to bring e- > gold into compliance with US law and regulation as quickly as > possible. > > I am going to briefly describe the systemic problems we are > undertaking to rectify and a roadmap of where the system is heading. > Going from where we are now to where we need to be is going to be a > bumpy road, especially at first. Many legitimate e-gold Users have > already suffered loss over the past year as the measures undertaken > by the government to prevent dissipation of assets have severely > impacted exchange markets with resulting illiquidity of a magnitude > as to effectively make it impracticable to exchange e-gold for > conventional money. There will be more disruption in the next few > months but it will be temporary and will set the stage for powerful > new features that enhance the usability and global reach of e-gold. > If there is a silver lining, it is that the more illiquid e-gold has > become, the more valuable it has become due to the (apparently > ongoing) decline of the US dollar relative to gold and other non- > financial assets. > > *e-gold User Agreement Changes* > > Before proceeding, however, let me make something clear that should > have been made more emphatically clear long ago. Use of the e-gold > system for criminal activity will not be tolerated. Memorializing > this resolve, the following provisions are being added to the e-gold > Account User Agreement <http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/e-g-agree.htm>: > > *2.3.* User agrees to not use e-gold in any manner that violates the > laws of whatever jurisdiction to which the User is subject. > > *4.6.1.1.* If e-gold investigators reasonably suspect that the e- > gold account of User is being used to launder the proceeds of crime > or for any other criminal purpose, Issuer may freeze the e-gold > account and any other e-gold accounts of User. Additionally, at the > sole discretion of Issuer, User will be subject to damages and other > penalties, including criminal prosecution where available and the > notification of the general public of Users actions, at the sole > discretion of Issuer. > > *Design flaws in legacy e-gold system* > > A systemic flaw in the e-gold design, present from the very > beginning, made it vexingly difficult for e-gold to expel a User, in > a truly effective way, for criminal abuse of the system. e-gold > investigative staff might detect suspicious activity, block or > freeze the offending account, and later discover the same > perpetrator had created additional accounts. > > One element was logic that allowed an e-gold account full privileges > from the moment of creation and only revoked those privileges in the > event of suspicion that the account holder was seeking to mask their > identity or actually engage in illicit activity. > > Compounding this weakness was an unrestricted ability for Users to > create multiple accounts without any obligatory indicator that they > were all under the control of one person. > > The next generation of the e-gold application will undertake to > enforce a "one-human being/one e-gold User" rule. Instead of the > existing logic where a User logs directly into an account, a User in > the next generation system logs in as a User. Only validated Users > are empowered with the ability to create multiple accounts. > > The advantage from the cybercrime-thwarting standpoint will be an > ever-stronger ability to blacklist a person who has abused the e- > gold system. > > e-gold is intensively working on this next generation User-based log- > in system but it is likely to be another 6-9 months to deployment. > Meanwhile, emergency surgery is required NOW. > > *Shock Therapy phase* [may it be brief!] > > *1)* Effective immediately, new e-gold account creation is suspended > until a compliant interim solution for Customer Identification can > be ensured. > > *2)* We are requesting that autoexchangers - even though the > technical beauty of the autoexchanger concept is sublime cease > supporting exchanges to or from e-gold for the time being. The > problem with the autoexchanger concept is that although the > autoexchangers themselves may be perfectly compliant with > requirements [promulgated by Webmoney and e-gold] to automatically > put tracking data in their memo fields, and despite the fact that > Webmoney is also committed to aiding in the suppression of > cybercrime, the fact is that a substantial proportion of the > cybercriminals that abuse e-gold have evolved into a modus operandi > that involves autoexchanging possible proceeds of crime into > Webmoney, sometimes within minutes of receiving the value, thus > making interdiction a matter of catch-up or closing the barn door > after the horse is gone. > > *Looking Forward* > > We are confident that a regulated e-gold rebuilt to a more > systematic specification will be less hospitable to criminals, and > more attractive to mainstream business use without being less > accessible to those disregarded by legacy payment systems. > > Please accept our apologies for the occasional turbulence you may > experience on this journey. And, as always... > > Thank you for using e-gold. > > Begin forwarded message: > From: Wavyhill <wavy(a)rayservers.net> > Date: July 21, 2008 5:20:26 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > >> especially at first. Many legitimate e-gold Users have already >> suffered loss over the past year as the measures undertaken by the >> government to prevent dissipation of assets have severely impacted >> exchange markets > > Yeah, well, thanks very much for warning us they are on their way > to becoming a gold-based version of paypal, and their asses are > thereby > saved. Great for them. Saved for what? > But nary a word was said about my kilos stolen along with the 1mdc > reserve egold accounts. How did /that/ figure into their /deal/ ? > > wavyhill > > Begin forwarded message: > From: Adam Selene <dgc(a)lunacity.org> > Date: July 21, 2008 8:06:43 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: [gsc] E-Gold Pleads Guilty to Money Laundering > > Appears "A New Beginning" was a sweetener from Doug to precede his > Monday morning Plea Bargain the inevitable DOJ press release. > > https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/CourtSched.pl > > *Court Schedule: Monday, July 21, 2008 > > * > 07-cr-109: USA v. E-GOLD, LTD. Judge Collyer 09:30AM Courtroom 2 > Plea Agreement Hearing > 07-cr-109: USA v. GOLD & SILVER RESERVE, INC. Judge Collyer > 09:30AM Courtroom 2 Plea Agreement Hearing > 07-cr-109: USA v. JACKSON Judge Collyer 09:30AM Courtroom 2 > Plea Agreement Hearing > 07-cr-109: USA v. DOWNEY Judge Collyer 09:30AM Courtroom 2 Plea > Agreement Hearing > 07-cr-109: USA v. JACKSON Judge Collyer 09:30AM Courtroom 2 > Plea Agreement Hearing > > > Adam > > ----------------------------- > FOR IMMEDIATE > RELEASE > > CRM > > MONDAY, JULY 21, 2008 > > (202) 514-2007 > > > WWW.USDOJ.GOV > > TDD (202) 514-1888 > > DIGITAL CURRENCY BUSINESS E-GOLD PLEADS GUILTY > > TO MONEY LAUNDERING AND ILLEGAL MONEY TRANSMITTING CHARGES > > WASHINGTON E-Gold Ltd. (E-Gold), an Internet-based digital > currency business, and its three principal directors and owners, > pleaded guilty to criminal charges relating to money laundering and > the operation of an illegal money transmitting business, Acting > Assistant Attorney General Matthew Friedrich for the Criminal > Division and U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Jeffrey A. > Taylor announced today. > > E-Gold and its corporate affiliate Gold & Silver Reserve > Inc. each pleaded guilty to conspiracy to engage in money laundering > and conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitting > business. The principal director of E-Gold and CEO of Gold & Silver > Reserve Inc. (Gold & Silver Reserve), Dr. Douglas Jackson, 51, of > Melbourne, Fla., pleaded guilty to conspiracy to engage in money > laundering and operating an unlicensed money transmitting business. > E-Golds other two senior directors, Barry Downey, 48, of Baltimore, > and Reid Jackson, 45, of Melbourne, each pleaded guilty to felony > violations of District of Columbia law relating to operating a money > transmitting business without a license. E-Gold, Gold & Silver > Reserve and the three company directors were charged in an > indictment returned by a federal grand jury on April 24, 2007. > > At sentencing, E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve face a maximum fine > of $3.7 million. Douglas Jackson faces a maximum prison sentence of > 20 years and a fine of $500,000 on the conspiracy to engage in money > laundering charge, and a sentence of five years and a fine of > $250,000 on the operation of an unlicensed money transmitting > business charge. Downey and Reid Jackson each face a maximum of > five years in prison and a fine of $25,000. Additionally, as part > of the plea, E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve have agreed to > forfeiture in the amount of $1.75 million in the form of a money > judgment for which they are joint and severally liable. Sentencing > for all defendants has been set for Nov. 20, 2008. > > In addition to the fines and prison sentences, each of the > defendants agreed that E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve will move to > fully comply with all applicable federal and state laws relating to > operating as a licensed money transmitting business and the > prevention of money laundering which includes registering as money > service businesses. Also as part of the plea agreement, the > businesses will create a comprehensive money laundering detection > program that will require verified customer identification, > suspicious activity reporting and regular supervision by the > Internal Revenue Services (IRS) Bank Secrecy Act Division, to which > the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network delegated authority > according to federal regulations. E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve > will hire a consultant to ensure their compliance with applicable > law and hire an auditor to verify the companies claims that all > transactions are fully backed by gold bullion. > > Under federal law and District of Columbia law, in addition > to other jurisdictions, the E-Gold operation was required to be > licensed and registered as a money transmitting business. However, > according to information in plea materials, the E-Gold operation > functioned as a money transmitting business without registering with > the federal government and without a license in the District of > Columbia. Because these businesses and individuals illegally failed > to register and follow applicable regulations under federal and > District of Columbia laws, the resulting lack of oversight and > required procedures created an atmosphere where criminals could use > e-gold, or digital currency, essentially anonymously to further > their illegal activities. > > Specifically, according to information contained in plea > materials, the E-Gold operation provided digital currency services > over the Internet through two sites: www.e-gold.com and > www.Omnipay.com > . Several characteristics of the E-Gold operation made it > attractive to users engaged in criminal activity, such as not > requiring users to provide their true identity, or any specific > identity. The E-Gold operation continued to allow accounts to be > opened without verification of user identity, despite knowing that > e-gold was being used for criminal activity, including child > exploitation, investment scams, credit card fraud and identity > theft. In addition, E-Gold assigned employees with no prior > relevant experience to monitor hundreds of thousands of accounts for > criminal activity. They also participated in designing a system > that expressly encouraged users whose criminal activity had been > discovered to transfer their criminal proceeds among other e-gold > accounts. Unlike other Internet payment systems, the E-Gold > operation did not include any statement in its user agreement > prohibiting the use of e-gold for criminal activity. > > By failing to comply with money laundering laws and regulations, > the E-Gold operation created an environment ripe for exploitation by > criminals seeking anonymity in conducting online transactions, said > Acting Assistant Attorney General Matthew Friedrich. This case > demonstrates that online payment systems must operate according to > the applicable rules and regulations created to ensure lawful > monetary transactions. > > The operations of E-Gold Ltd. and the other defendants undermined > the laws designed to maintain the integrity of our financial system > and created opportunities for criminal activity, said U.S. Attorney > Taylor. Because of the successful prosecution of these defendants, > digital currency providers everywhere are now on notice that they > must comply with federal banking laws or they will be subject to > prosecution. > > The Secret Service is pleased with the successful outcome of the E- > gold investigation, said U.S. Secret Service Assistant Director for > Investigations Michael Stenger. This case demonstrated that even > the most sophisticated criminals cannot escape the combined > resources of the Secret Service and our law enforcement partners. > The Secret Service is committed to our mission of safeguarding the > nations critical financial infrastructure and we will continue to > pursue criminals seeking to use the Internet and new technologies to > commit crimes. > > The case was investigated by the U.S. Secret Service, IRS Criminal > Investigation and the FBI. The case was prosecuted by Assistant > U.S. Attorney Jonathan Haray of the U.S. Attorneys Office for the > District of Columbia, Senior Counsel Kimberly Kiefer Peretti of the > Criminal Divisions Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section > and Laurel Loomis Rimon, Deputy Chief of the Criminal Divisions > Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section, with assistance from > the Criminal Divisions Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section. > William Cowden of the U.S. Attorneys Office Asset Forfeiture Unit > assisted with forfeiture issues involved in the case. > > ### > > Begin forwarded message: > From: Kevin Wilkerson <kbw(a)vertoro.com> > Date: July 21, 2008 8:33:44 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Wavyhill wrote: >> But nary a word was said about my kilos stolen along with the 1mdc >> reserve egold accounts. How did /that/ figure into their /deal/ ? > > As we know, that gold was already liquidated and wired to the feds. > I see in the DOJ release that fines and jail time are pending, the > exact amount of each to be determined by the judge, referencing the > plea agreement of course. > > My bet is for no jail time, or a suspended sentence, and fines > totaling approximately the amount already vacuumed up. What a > coincidence! > > -Kevin > Begin forwarded message: > From: Adam Selene <dgc(a)lunacity.org> > Date: July 21, 2008 8:43:32 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Kevin Wilkerson wrote: >> My bet is for .... fines totaling approximately the amount already >> vacuumed up. > > The civil (not criminal) court case ultimately must have some > resolution regarding requested asset forfeitures, including the > frozen/liquidated accounts. > > The criminal case infers E-Gold will be an on-going business while > the civil case had originally requested the forfeiture of absolutely > all assets of E-Gold and *all their customers' gold*. I don't get > how they can claim the latter. > > Pleading guilty doesn't exactly help the civil case, not sure the > criminal plea bargain can help. > > Adam > > > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > From: "Bill St. Clair" <billstclair(a)gmail.com> > Date: July 21, 2008 8:38:22 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Wavyhill <wavy(a)rayservers.net> wrote: > >> Yeah, well, thanks very much for warning us they are on their way >> to becoming a gold-based version of paypal, and their asses are >> thereby >> saved. Great for them. Saved for what? > > GoldPal (TM) > > -Bill > Begin forwarded message: > From: Wavyhill <wavy(a)rayservers.net> > Date: July 21, 2008 9:06:50 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Kevin Wilkerson wrote: > >> >> >> My bet is for no jail time, or a suspended sentence, and fines >> totaling approximately the amount already vacuumed up. What a >> coincidence! > > That doesnt make sense either. (Most of) the gold stolen belonged > not to > egold, > but to its customers. If you fine a bank for criminal activity, you > dont > take it > from the depositors accounts. In order to justifiably keep assets > taken from customer accounts, seems to me you have to convict > them of something, or at least prove the assets are the proceeds of > crime, > even if you cant identify the offenders. > > No one has charged me, much less convicted me, of anything criminal. > My savings are gone. My self-styled masters have it. > Where is my justice? > > wavyhill > > Begin forwarded message: > From: "George Hara" <georgegabrielhara(a)fastmail.fm> > Date: July 22, 2008 1:56:16 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Wavyhill, > > >> the gold stolen belonged not to egold, but to its customers. If you >> fine a bank for criminal activity, you dont take it from the >> depositors accounts. In order to justifiably keep assets taken from >> customer accounts, seems to me you have to convict them of >> something, or at least prove the assets are the proceeds of crime, >> even if you cant identify the offenders. > > Their logic must be quite simple: if you're anonymous, you're not a > person, hence you don't exist. > Begin forwarded message: > From: JP May <jpm(a)interestingsoftware.com> > Date: July 23, 2008 5:24:41 AM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) - the reality > >>> *Looking Forward* >>> >>> We are confident that a regulated e-gold rebuilt to a more >>> systematic specification will be less hospitable to criminals, and >>> more attractive to mainstream business use without being less >>> accessible to those disregarded by legacy payment systems. >>> >>> Please accept our apologies for the occasional turbulence you may >>> experience on this journey. And, as always... >>> >>> Thank you for using e-gold. >> >> >> Is it just me, or was anyone else looking for any sign from Douglas >> (?) as to what will become of the e-gold users and their monies >> that were stolen on April 24, 2007! >> >> Is it just me, or was this the first question that blasted forth >> from your mouth after having read this piece! WHAT ABOUT THE E- >> GOLD USERS THAT HAVE BEEN SCREWED AS A RESULT OF YOUR FAILING IN >> YOUR FIDUCIARY DUTIES! > > > Bill, > > The three egold guys are ABSOLUTE VICTIMS here. > > They have been bent over and raped with steel poles by human filth > masquerading as a government. > > Law and order in the USA has decayed to a plain circus - an > absolutely, outright kangaroo court fiasco. > > The legal system in, say, the USSR, was no more corrupt ....... just > a system of rubber-stamps for literally all-powerful prosecutors and > bureaucrats. Rubber stamps. > > That's EXACTLY what the USA "legal system" now amounts to. > > Because the government never loses a prosecution, and the government > is all-powerful, prosecutors can very simply literally say "You will > now do this _ _ _ and this _ _ _ or you will go to jail." Then, a > Judge rubber-stamps the arrangement. > > That's all the USA is. That's IT. It's a rubber-stamp system where > prosecutors and bureaucrats have TOTAL, COMPLETELY UNLIMITED power. > > Prosecutors tell you what you have to do, and a Judge rubber-stamps > it. The deal is you do it or you do ten years in jail. > > You are completely wrong to blame the egold blokes in any way for > anything. > > If you've lost the odd hundred thousand bucks worth of gold (or > whatever, I don't know what your particular tally is, but many > people on this list had that much stolen by the government) - big > deal. > > The egold guys had MILLIONS stolen from them and are at risk of > being thrown in the can for years by the system .... not to mention > that their work of a decade of their life is crushed. > > Plus, out of all the exchangers, operators, "merchants," plain large > users of egold, etc etc -- the three egold dudes were the ones > picked by the human filth in the government, to suffer on behalf of > all of us, to be an example. > > The only reason YOU or ANYONE on this list or that has ever had > anything much to do with DGCs is not SITTING IN JAIL is because of a > pure WHIM of the human filth in the various USA government offices. > > The only reason everyone ELSE is not being put through the ringer, > is because the three egold dudes were put through the ringer. > > The USA government can put ANYONE - ANYONE - in jail any time they > like, and that's absolutely the full extent of the situation. > > It is a rough situation Bill. To blame the egold guys is totally > wrong, man. > > They are absolutely victims. Moreover, THEY were chosen as the > "fall-guys" to go through the ringer when it could have been anyone. > > > >> >> WHAT ABOUT US AND WHAT ABOUT OUR GOLD! >> >> Thanks, again, Adam, for the update. >> >> All the best. >> >> Sincerely, >> Bill Bochynski > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Begin forwarded message: > From: "ADMIN, GOLD COMPANIES" <goldcompanies(a)cox.net> > Date: July 22, 2008 7:08:46 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Adam Selene wrote: >> Kevin Wilkerson wrote: >>> My bet is for .... fines totaling approximately the amount already >>> vacuumed up. >> >> The civil (not criminal) court case ultimately must have some >> resolution regarding requested asset forfeitures, including the >> frozen/liquidated accounts. >> >> The criminal case infers E-Gold will be an on-going business while >> the civil case had originally requested the forfeiture of >> absolutely all assets of E-Gold and *all their customers' gold*. I >> don't get how they can claim the latter. >> >> Pleading guilty doesn't exactly help the civil case, not sure the >> criminal plea bargain can help. >> >> Adam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Here is another article on the events of yesterday, and frankly, the > last sentence of the article really concerns me: > > "...Authorities said E-gold did not ask for account holders' true > identity, *and company officials helped criminals distribute their > money to other accounts if they were caught.*" (emphasis added). > > The total article is here: > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-07-22-money_N.htm > > > Dean > > Begin forwarded message: > From: YAlwaysWar(a)EarthLink.Net > Date: July 23, 2008 1:55:15 AM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Dear Adam: > > At 01:26 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote: > > <snip> > > > Thank you for the post, Adam! > > > <snip> > > >> *Looking Forward* >> >> We are confident that a regulated e-gold rebuilt to a more >> systematic specification will be less hospitable to criminals, and >> more attractive to mainstream business use without being less >> accessible to those disregarded by legacy payment systems. >> >> Please accept our apologies for the occasional turbulence you may >> experience on this journey. And, as always... >> >> Thank you for using e-gold. > > > <snip> > > > Is it just me, or was anyone else looking for any sign from Douglas > (?) as to what will become of the e-gold users and their monies that > were stolen on April 24, 2007! > > Is it just me, or was this the first question that blasted forth > from your mouth after having read this piece! WHAT ABOUT THE E-GOLD > USERS THAT HAVE BEEN SCREWED AS A RESULT OF YOUR FAILING IN YOUR > FIDUCIARY DUTIES! > > WHAT ABOUT US AND WHAT ABOUT OUR GOLD! > > Thanks, again, Adam, for the update. > > All the best. > > Sincerely, > Bill Bochynski > Begin forwarded message: > From: YAlwaysWar(a)EarthLink.Net > Date: July 23, 2008 2:08:38 AM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > Dear Wavyhill: > > At 06:06 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote: > > <snip> > > >> No one has charged me, much less convicted me, of anything criminal. >> My savings are gone. My self-styled masters have it. >> Where is my justice? >> >> wavyhill > > > Ditto! > > Thanks for saying so. > > All the best. > > Sincerely, > Bill Bochynski > Begin forwarded message: > From: "Jeffrey Lyon" <jeffrey.lyon(a)blacklotus.net> > Date: July 22, 2008 3:28:32 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) > > My biggest concern is that exchangers and merchants will fall into the > trap of being identified by e-gold as launders of their customer's > funds and have their entire accounts seized accordingly. > > I'd be in favor of the e-Bullion model where the funds are basically > considered cleared after a 24 hour hold. > > Jeff > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:56 PM, George Hara > <georgegabrielhara(a)fastmail.fm> wrote: >> Wavyhill, >> >> >>> the gold stolen belonged not to egold, but to its customers. If >>> you fine a bank for criminal activity, you dont take it from the >>> depositors accounts. In order to justifiably keep assets taken >>> from customer accounts, seems to me you have to convict them of >>> something, or at least prove the assets are the proceeds of crime, >>> even if you cant identify the offenders. >> >> Their logic must be quite simple: if you're anonymous, you're not a >> person, hence you don't exist. >> > > > > -- > Jeffrey Lyon, President > Level III Information Systems Technician > jeffrey.lyon(a)blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net > Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc. > > Talk for 4h 45m from the U.S. to Latin America for $10.00: > http://www.defensecalling.com

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