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by ВНИМАНИЕ Отмена ЕСН 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

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Fwd: [gsc] Fwd: managing and protecting nyms...
by R.A. Hettinga 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

Begin forwarded message: > From: Jim <jim(a)indomitus.net> > Date: November 8, 2009 4:10:07 PM GMT-04:00 > To: gold-silver-crypto(a)rayservers.com > Subject: Re: [gsc] Fwd: managing and protecting nyms... > > R.A. Hettinga wrote: > >>> From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> >>> Date: November 8, 2009 1:31:05 PM GMT-04:00 >>> To: cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net >>> Subject: Re: managing and protecting nyms... >>> >>> Peer review is necessary to assure blunders are not overlooked. >>> However, there has been no demonstration that peer review is all >>> that is needed for the superior protection. > > I have never seen anyone make this argument. So, burn down > the straw man, John. > >>> This is not an argument >>> for obscurity, only a caution that peer review is not necessary >>> sufficient. > > Not necessary or sufficient? Not necessarily sufficient? > > Peer review is very useful. I've never seen anyone argue that > it is sufficient for total information security. To my > knowledge, there is no total information security, no perfect > system. > > Open source operates on the assumption that everyone is > fallible. Other assumptions to demolish John's arguments, > below, in line. > >>> Peers miss stuff too, as amply demonstrated by holes >>> and bad implementation later discovered. > > Of course. But, look, John, dummy, you can't discover these > holes and bad implementations without open source crypto. If > you keep your secret codes secret, then when the codes and > ciphers are broken, you won't know it. > >>> Betting you life on peer review, or open disclosure is probably >>> not very smart. > > Who isn't betting their life every day? The scum who have > gotten Republican politicians to waste three trillion dollars > on military contracts in order to slaughter millions of people > in Southwest Asia are quite willing to slaughter as many people > as it takes to maintain power and keep the gravy train coming. > > Is it more clever to bet your life on a super duper secret > code that no one can review? No, that would be asinine. > > John, don't be an ass. > >>> Instead, expect some shrewd peer(s) to see >>> something that will serve a private purpose by keeping quiet. >>> Competiton, betrayal, disinfo, venality, play a role as well >>> as search for truth through open discourse. > > Competition, for those who can spell it, is a good thing. The > whole point of open source crypto is that different persons would > each have different purposes, different motivations. Some will > be genuinely motivated by math, just doing the math, just seeing > the equations work, just understanding it all. Some will be > motivated by private purposes, but these will vary widely. So > the more people who actually sift the source code and review > the math and do the peer review, the better. > > Yes, there will be betrayals and venality, but the advantage of > open source is that there will be different people with very > differing agendas. You don't get nearly as many minds looking > for holes in your crypto without open source. > >>> Comsec is a swamp, quicksand, punji trap, > > Which is it? A swamp is not all quicksand, and neither a > swamp nor quicksand is a punji trap. > > Communications security and data security are ill served by > mixed metaphors and endless abbreviations. > >>> and comsec >>> experts are never trustworthy about each other or about >>> systems. > > Nobody is trustworthy. The whole point of someone like, say, > Tim May, saying that something is a "trust me" level of > security is to deride and ridicule trusting anyone with your > security. (Was that Tim who said that about Safe-mail.net or > was that someone else quoting Tim on another topic? Not > that it matters.) > > There is no royal road to geometry. There is no substitute > for actually doing the math. There is no one but you that > you can really trust. Which is okay. > > Really, it is, John. It'll be okay. Calm down. Don't > get all fussy. Finding market clearing prices is an > intensely cooperative activity. People are very motivated > to find these prices and clear markets. So, in part because > of the fact that no one can trust anyone else, people find > ways to cooperate actively to create, price, and clear markets. > >>> The open source methodology, call it snakeoil, > > Why call it snake oil? This metaphor isn't any better than > the punji trap in quicksand in a swamp metaphor. > > If you don't like open source crypto or open source software, > why not propose some other methodology? > > There is no other methodology that provides similar levels of > scrutiny of code and math. The preceding methodology, of > making a secret code and keeping it ultra-mega-top-letter- > clearance-secret-word-clearance-burn-before-reading classified > has been completely discredited. When you have a highly > secure code, you will never know when it has been broken. > >>> works well >>> for the inexpert to gain a limited education, > > Who would that inexpert be, John? Would he be the guy who > stares out of your mirror when you shave? lol > >>> but behind that stage the usual shit goes on. > > Shit goes on all the time. LBJ and his cronies spent on > the order of $2 trillion in today's dollars on the war in > Southeast Asia, slaughtering about 7.9 million in dead and > wounded, military and civilians, across all countries. So, > for about a quarter million dollars in corruptly allocated > profits, one person was horribly mutilated or killed to > make the CIA and military death merchants happy. > > If there is any good news about this shit that goes on, it > is that somewhat closer to two million have been killed in > Southwest Asia for about $3 trillion in today's dollars. So > more like $1.5 million in death merchant profits and campaign > contributions for GOP villains (and since 2006, Democrat > villains, too) per horribly mutilated or killed victim. > > Ain't efficiency grand? > > Of course, the tricky part is the casualty figures. No > body counts these days. It could be tens of millions of > dead people, and we won't know until the empire falls and > the archives are opened. > >>> Keeping quiet about crypto cracks, holes, trojans, backdoors, >>> is extremely rewarding. > > For everyone? So, John Young works for the feral gummint on > ways to keep secrets and slaughter young children in foreign > countries, as well as babies in the USA. How rewarding is it, > John? > >>> Concealing deep faults with shallow ones is SOP. > > Standard for whom? Operating procedures assume some sort of > goal or outcome for operations. Different people have very > different plans, goals, skills, and ethics. > > I mean, clearly, you are the sort who would have no problem having > the IRS come into a home, kill the family pets, rape the young > children, put the adults in cages, seize all the records, and > confiscate every asset. You want the IRS to do so for the > benefit of your lofty goals of having trillions of dollars for > corruptly allocated government contracts so that the CIA and > the military can rape, torture, kill, and mutilate foreigners > in an endless war. > >>> Note that wide crypto use has become a stimulus to intercept, >>> store forever (NSA policy), crack when possible and to continue >>> trying to crack indefinitely (NSA policy), with successful deep >>> cracks seldom revealed. "NSA policy" is that of deeply embedded >>> contractors and researchers as well. > > Yes, that's all terribly sweet. Build up your Library of > Alexandria of data of every comment ever written by anyone ever. > Build (with corruptly allocated contracts and dead taxpayer > confiscated funds) your huge quantum computing apparatus to > sift through all this data. Enjoy trying to figure out which > e-mail address goes with which person. > > At some stage you still have to have a human being apply it. > Or manufacture it wholesale and assign it to someone innocent > and insist that it has been in your database for years. > > It is just like your archive of finger prints and DNA samples. > You can now fabricate "evidence" that anyone was anywhere, with > "irrefutable" evidence from your laboratories, cooked up before > the crime and analysed after the crime, to frame anyone. > > So what? Who cares? > > What are you doing with all these abilities, all these technologies, > all the money that you steal, all the lives you ruin? > > Nothing much. Slaughtering a whole bunch of children to not > much purpose. > > Going to the stars, John? No, you aren't. Exploring the planets, > John? Nope. > > Spying on your neighbors, sure. Raping their children, sure. > You and your government do a whole lot of that. > > Bringing the resources of the Solar System to bear on the > problems here on Earth? Nah, that would be a waste of your > very important time. Arbeit macht frei, motherfucker. > >>> Publicly-availalbe encryption and other currently usable comsec >>> protection are satisfactory for ordinary communications > > Anyone who isn't using them for ordinary communication is a > fool. Anyone who is communicating about actual criminal > activity and thinks encryption is sufficient "cover" is a fool. > >>> but not >>> for more than that if you are up to extraordinary renditions, say, >>> making a bundle peddling natsec-grade counter-threat >>> assurances. > > Well, gosh, Johnny, are you torturing people to death? Does > that make your opinions about open source methodology more > interesting, or less interesting, to ethical persons? > >>> Yep, natsec-grade is what the telecoms and like >>> critical infrastructure dealers claim they are providing. Nothing >>> pays better. > > And we all know that if it paid well enough, you would rape and > torture your grandmother in front of your siblings, and then > rape and torture and murder them all. > > Thanks, John, for a trip inside the mind of a maniac.

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