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[gg@well.sf.ca.us: Re: +-=*^]
by d9mj＠crux2.cit.cornell.edu 11 Oct '92

11 Oct '92

Look at what my mailer did to your header. Is this a result of your perl script or my screwed router? Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 05:06:40 -0400 Illegal-Object: Syntax error in From: address found on router.mail.cornell.edu: From: George A.Gleason <gg(a)well.sf.ca.us> ^ ^-illegal period in phrase \-phrases containing '.' must be quoted X-Ph: V3.12(a)router.mail.cornell.edu >From: <gg(a)well.sf.ca.us> To: Secret_Squirrel(a)treehouse.com, shipley(a)tfs.COM Subject: Re: +-=*^ Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com [message deleted]

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Re: +-=*^
by George A. Gleason 11 Oct '92

11 Oct '92

Eric, good point about public keys and trust by association. More on OTPs. You say the key distribution problem for OTPs is "much worse" than for PKS and even other conventional ciphers. "Much worse" in what ways? The need for F2F meetings with all possible correspondents is something which exists with conventional ciphers. The cost of key storage is trivial: a fraction of the cost of the yearly (or less frequent) travel to meet each correspondent in person. Consider replaceable hard drive cartridges (30 meg for about a buck a meg), digital cassette formats including applications involving videocassettes, and so on. Yes, as you say, you have to exchange keys each time you run out of key; but you can keep ten years' with of key (error: "worth" not "with") on hand if you like, taking up less physical space than a box of cookies. "Bandwidth required is much higher..." In what way? Certainly not in terms of transmission; a stream cipher is a stream cipher. Perhaps in that each plaintext character requires one key character? This is just another formulation of the "storage" issue: and again, if you have a stack of 30MB cartridges, who cares? Not like we're talking about punched paper tape. I do agree that PKS offer convenience and features not available with conventional ciphers. However, RSA is just one mathematical breakthrough away from being obsolete, and we have no way of knowing when that breakthrough occurs. It may also be that massively parallel processors can be built through VLSI technology, allowing the cost of brute force solutions to come down to a reasonable level. All of this is not by way of getting down on PKS. I would suggest that we need a number of different systems, and need to keep them all in fairly constant use. I think we're already all in agreement that one of those systems should be RSA-based. Now I'm just suggesting that a One-Time system should be another one among the many. BTW, sorry I couldn't make today's meeting; various local tasks demanding attention; plus physical travel distance. Be back next time... -gg

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random
by Eric Hollander 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

So when are we going to start alt.crypt, where we just post a lot of uuencode'ed random data? e

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re: Re: +-=*^
by Tom.Jennings＠f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

(to: gg(a)well.sf.ca.us) Thank you for clarifying my particular problem: what I was worried about was *authentication* not security. I had the two tangled up. Duh. With an informal email/introducer setup for the FidoNet, we'll have a fairly secure system with a reasonable level of authentification, practically speaking, with authentification to some high level doable on an individual basis. (Using PGP.) This probably as "good as it gets" in our (email) environment. * Origin: World Power Systems / FidoNews / San Francisco CA (1:125/111) -- Tom Jennings - via FidoNet node 1:125/555 UUCP: ...!uunet!hoptoad!kumr!fidogate!111!Tom.Jennings INTERNET: Tom.Jennings(a)f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG

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re: Better directions to the meeting on Saturday at noon
by Tom.Jennings＠f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

Things are not good here. I have to stay and deal with my best friend Deke who seems to be going nuts. (It's not a new story, but it heated up last night.) Now, at 1pm, I've gotta stay here another hour or so, and be back by 630, so I guess I'm gonna have to miss another. I'll see you all elsewhen (to borrow a Hugh-ism). * Origin: World Power Systems / FidoNews / San Francisco CA (1:125/111) -- Tom Jennings - via FidoNet node 1:125/555 UUCP: ...!uunet!hoptoad!kumr!fidogate!111!Tom.Jennings INTERNET: Tom.Jennings(a)f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG

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Directions!
by Tom.Jennings＠f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

Umm, directions never came. I think it's last minute, huh?! Can anyone tell me where Cygnus' new site is? * Origin: World Power Systems / FidoNews / San Francisco CA (1:125/111) -- Tom Jennings - via FidoNet node 1:125/555 UUCP: ...!uunet!hoptoad!kumr!fidogate!111!Tom.Jennings INTERNET: Tom.Jennings(a)f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG

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Re: +-=*^
by George A. Gleason 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

I've seen a number of postings so far about "secure *and* authenticated" requiring advance in-person distribution of key material. This would seem to eliminate the main advantage of public key systems, i.e. open distribution of public keys. So as long as we're handling key material in person, how about one-time systems, eh? Absolutely secure, provably so, obsolescence-proof, simple & straightforward. Not particularly exciting from a theoretical point of view, but one-time systems are practical and on the bottom line, they work. What do y'all think...? -gg(a)well.sf.ca.us

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a key
by marc＠kg6kf.ampr.org 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

A key... -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.0 mQA9AirWaLMAAAEBgMlJILifxrXH8fkJwJbeSHXAY1Q9/AzPybGVy0Dx/q70Fr3d KhM6XoSEgaw2Ezzn2QAFEbQWTWFyYyBkZSBHcm9vdCAoY2FzdWFsKbQjTWFyYyBk ZSBHcm9vdCA8bWFyY0BrZzZrZi5hbXByLm9yZz4= =LL6T -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- This is a casual key for me. Perhaps a causal key for me too. -Marc de Groot <marc(a)kg6kf.ampr.org>

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Better directions to the meeting on Saturday at noon
by gnu＠cygnus.com 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

Someone asked for better directions, and the original ones were pretty skimpy anyway. Here's a better try. Cygnus Support 1937 Landings Drive Mt. View, CA 94043 There's no phone service there yet. Take US 101 toward Mt. View. From San Francisco, it's about a 40-minute drive. Get off at the Rengstorff Ave/Amphitheatre Parkway exit. If you were heading south on 101, you curve around to the right, cross over the freeway, and get to a stoplight. If you were heading north on 101, you just come right off the exit to the stoplight. The light is the intersection of Amphitheatre and Charleston Rd. Take a right on Charleston; there's a right-turn-only lane. Follow Charleston for a short distance. You'll pass the Metaphor/Kaleida buildings on the right. At a clump of palm trees and a "Landmark Deli" sign, you can take a right into Landings Drive; this gets you into the complex from the north. Or you can go slightly further along Charleston and take the next right, into a driveway with a big "Landmark" sign in the middle. No matter which way you got into the complex, follow around it until you are on the side that faces the freeway. There's a clock tower that rises out of one of the buildings, to the right (south) of the deli. Enter through the doors immediately under the clock tower. They'll be open between noon and 1PM at least. (See below if you're late.) Once inside, take the stairs up, immediately to your right. At the top of the stairs, turn right past the treetops, and we'll be in 1937 on your left. If you are late and the door under the clock tower is locked, you can go to the deli (which will be around a building and left, as you face the door), cut between the buildings to the right of the deli, and into the back lawns between the complex and the farm behind it. Walk around the buildings until you see a satellite dish in the lawn. Go up the stairs next to the dish, which are the back stairs into the Cygnus office space. We'll prop the door (or you can bang on it if we forget). Or, you can find the guard who's wandering around the complex, who knows there's a meeting happening and will let you in. They can be beeped at 965 5250, though you'll have trouble finding a phone. Don't forget to eat first, or bring food at noon! I recommend hitting the burrito place on Rengstorff (La Costen~a) at about 11:45. To get there, when you get off 101, take Rengstorff (toward the hills) rather than Amphitheatre (toward the bay). Follow it about ten blocks until the major intersection at Middlefield Road. La Costen~a is the store on your left at the corner. You can turn left into the narrow lane behind the store, which leads to a parking lot, and enter by the front door, which faces the intersection. To get to the meeting from there, just retrace your route on Rengstorff, go straight over the freeway, and turn right at the stoplight onto Charleston; see above. See you there! John Gilmore

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PGP Key
by Angry_Poodle＠BBQ.COM 10 Oct '92

10 Oct '92

If you see any msgs from 'me' saying "here's my PGP PK key," then it's an imposter! I don't have a PGP key, much less PGP! -- Angriest Dog in the World.

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