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a name for cryptographic currency
by Eli Brandt 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

Nothing makes it big with a dodecasyllabic name. How about "cryp"? (Rhymes with "scrip"?) The idea is for science-fiction writers to ditch these central-intelligence "credits", and start naming currency "1gAu L5 Consortium cryp" and the like. Eli ebrandt(a)jarthur.claremont.edu

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re: (fwd) A Silver Bullet to Limit Crypto?
by Tom.Jennings＠f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

U> From: tcmay(a)netcom.com (Timothy C. May) U> U> Here's a new analysis of the key registration proposal I U> just posted to a couple of groups. U> U> -Tim I've been crossposting selected messages, such as this one, to FidoNet's PUBLIC_KEY conference, just FYI... --- ReadMail * Origin: tomj(a)fidosw.fidonet.org / World Power Systems (1:125/111) -- Tom Jennings - via FidoNet node 1:125/555 UUCP: ...!uunet!hoptoad!kumr!fidogate!111!Tom.Jennings INTERNET: Tom.Jennings(a)f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG

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Random number generators
by Eric Hughes 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

There seems to be some confusion over this random number device. Perry Metzger forwarded me some information about Newbridge Microsystems and the part number of a chip that made random numbers. At the crypto BOF at hackers I mentioned that there was a need for a hardware random number generator and that I knew of some chip to do it. John Draper, who was there, expressed a desire to work on such a device. I forwarded him the information about the chip. What I didn't know was the cost or design of this chip. It appears to use a radioactive source to make random numbers. This may account for the cost. In any case, it is likely that most applications don't need this kind of chip. What is needed, though, is _some_ kind of chip. John Draper is eager to manufacture such a device, once we have a design. Would those people willing to help on this design please get in touch with him directly and start a conversation about it. The conversation could reasonably be discussed on the list, if enough are interested. FYI, random numbers are used generally to create single-use session keys in a wide variety of crypto protocols, including Diffie-Hellman key exchange. Hardware random number sources will be a standard component of all computers in the near future. As far as the design of the device itself goes, the numbers that come out of it don't have to be fully random. Non-randomness can be corrected in software. Two characteristics of the output, though will help such correction. First, the number of ones and zeros should be the same. Not only is this useful for correction, but it is easy to do in hardware. Second, effort should be made to make sure that the generator does not pick up cyclic noise from its environment. This means attention to coupling, shielding, and packaging. No extra expense, likely, but definitely to be thought about some. Eric

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Remove my name please
by estensla＠mipos2.intel.com 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

Please have my name removed from the mailing list! Thanks

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Mac PGP
by strat＠intercon.com 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

I will try out the port that Eric Hughes just mentioned, and I also want to make it known that I'm willing to assist in any Macintosh efforts along these lines. (FYI - I use MPW for development). Bob Stratton Engineer, InterCon Systems Corp strat(a)intercon.com +1 703 709 5525 (W)

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Mac PGP version
by Eric Hughes 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

I found the address for the Mac version of PGP. anon-ftp to mac.archive.umich.edu directory /mac/util/encryption Would someone try this out and report back to the list how it works? Eric

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Hackers Conference Report
by tcmay＠netcom.com 11 Nov '92

11 Nov '92

Fellow Cypherpunks, Here's a trip report I just sent to another mailing list I'm active on, the "Extropians" list. That's why I "introduce" Tom Jennings, John Gilmore, and Eric Hughes...clearly they need no introduction to readers of _this_ list (although a lot of new folks have signed up recently, I hear). By the way, I just picked up the latest "Mondo 2000." Our own Jude Milhon's article, "The Cypherpunk Movement," is on pp. 36-37 (Issue #8). The address "cypherpunks(a)toad.com" is mentioned, so we may get even more new folks. Also some good stuff on MindVOX, phreaking, etc. --Tim HACKERS CONFERENCE REPORT I just returned from Hackers 8.0, held 6-8 November in Lake Tahoe, California. Approximately 170 attendees this year. Some Highlights: * Our crypto session went extremely well. The talks were on PGP and FidoNet, Diffie-Hellman key exchange for rlogin, digital time-stamping, and anonymous remailers. More comments later. * Mike Godwin of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) spoke on the developing conflict between personal privacy and law enforcement, including comments on the "key registration" trial balloon I posted about earlier. (Godwin told me he believes the Denning proposal is deadly serious, that the Department of Justice has put a high priority on limiting the use of cryptography.) * Hacking was well represented. Besides our crypto panel, sessions on cellular phone phreaking and illegal mods to telecom equipment drew large crowds (a "how to" talk on reprogramming the 8051 micro in the Oki 900 cellphone was especially useful). * Eric Drexler gave a talk on nanotechnology (surprise!), with an emphasis on needed work in the next couple of years. Drexler argued that proto-assemblers could be built in as short as 16 years, though there was some skepticism expressed. He also presented a calculation that the "cost" of delaying nanotech is $25 billion a _day_. (I suggested we all skip dinner that night and instead put in another hour in the labs!) * Marvin Minsky answered questions, saying he rarely prepares in advance. AI, robotics, gene expression in embryos, and software were all covered. * Allan Huang of AT&T gave an energetic 90 minute talk on optical computing, going from optical deconvolvers to "computer origami" to optical switches to Sagnac fibers that can store light pulses 6 femtoseconds long! Definitely the most stimulating talk. * Demos in the machine room were better than ever. The "Reality Engine" from Silicon Graphics displayed photorealistic simulations. Lots of Suns, NeXTs, and Macs. Films of SIGGRAPH papers, chaos and fractals, and artificial life were shown at night. Rudy Rucker's session on cellular automata went well. MORE ON CRYPTO Since cryptology and the activities of the "cypherpunks" mailing list are of central concern to me, I'll concentrate on those topics. Our panel was in "prime time," mid-Saturday afternoon, with about 100 in attendance, including a couple of journalists (notably John Markoff of the "New York Times"...if anybody sees an article on this by him, please send me a note about it, OK?). The audience had been prepped for crypto by the comments Friday night by Mike Godwin of the EFF and by a 3 hour rump session on "Digital Cash" from 1 a.m. to 4 a.m on Saturday (remember "hacker hours"). Tom Jennings, one of the chief forces behind FidoNet, an "anarchic" net made up of PCs talking to other PCs, spoke on efforts to spread PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) to as many FidoNet users as possible. It looks like its happening and this will be another avenue to ensure that the "crypto genie" gets safely out of the bottle. John Gilmore, an early UNIX/Sun pioneer and current principal at Cygnus Support, amongst other things, spoke on increasing security against Internet eavesdroppers by using the Diffie-Hellman key exchange protocol for rlogin (for example). This is something we can do fairly soon. Stu Haber and Scott Stornetta of Bellcore (formerly part of Bell Labs) reported on their digital time-stamping system. Some document to be "notarized" is hashed to produce a fairly short number which is hard to forge (i.e., it is very hard to find another document which hashes to the same value). This hash value is then published in, say, a widely read newspaper. If a dispute arises about the time a document was written, the published has value is persuasive. Bellcore actually operates such a service (check the legal notices in the Sunday "New York Times"). Eric Hughes, a mathematician who worked briefly for David Chaum's "DigiCash" outfit, described anonymous remailers implemented in Perl and now running. He also mentioned Hal Finney's version which embeds PGP in the remailer, allowing more security. This generated a lot of excitement, as the ideas of "crypto anarchy" became apparent to all. (John Little, owner and operator of the "Portal Communications Company," a Bay Area-based Internet access service, got excited and offered to run the remailers on his system! The genie is further out of the bottle. Now if we can only get GEnie to do the same!) The spirit of contributing to the larger cause of using crypto to _directly_ protect privacy was exhilarating. More people spoke of actual code they plan to write (as with Russell Whittaker's offer a few weeks ago to help with ProComm mods). There was a real sense that Things Had Changed. With PGP 2.0 arriving a few months ago (and still spreading), with the onset of the "Cypherpunks" group (which got a somehat cryptic write-up by Jude Milhon in the just-published Issue #8 of "Mondo 2000"...but since she coined the term "cypherpunks" to describe us, her article can afford to be cryptic, no?), and with the "Hacker Crackdown" all around us (Sun Devil, Legion of Doom, S.266 attempt to ban encryption, FBI's "Digital Telephony Bill," and the latest "trial balloon" to register keys), the time is right. In the next several months I expect the media, via more articles in magazines like "Mondo 2000" and by articles on crypto policy, to focus in on this issue. Even the "Village Voice" is interested in crypto issues (theme: crypto privacy vs. Big Brother). These are exciting times. If I'm ever busted for sedition, money laundering conspiracy, violation of the Munitions Act, RICO Act violations, or just plain old political incorrectness, carry on the fight. The stakes are high. --Tim -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | PGP Public Key: awaiting Macintosh version. -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | PGP Public Key: awaiting Macintosh version. -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | PGP Public Key: awaiting Macintosh version.

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Re: a cryptographic deal with the devil
by efrem＠spitha.informix.com 10 Nov '92

10 Nov '92

>Re. the digital wiretapping "compromise." As a telecom professional I >absolutely resent and will resist any attempts to mandate backdoors into my >PBXs. No compromise on that. Period. We've all heard the arguements many >times: vast surveillance power, diminution of privacy, potential major >security problems... I think you missed the point of my proposal. It is to create a situation in which all taps must be court ordered and eventually disclosed. The police have no business making "investigational" taps, they are not entrepreneurs in search of new business opportunities. My prefered solution is no taps. In my experience taps are more common for political reasons than police reasons. I think anyone who believes anything the FBI says without proof must have not been reading the paper for the last several decades. If the political process will not ban wire (fiber) tapping then it seems sensible to try and force all easedropping into the public record. I see no reason to care where the police put their equipment so long as there is no way they can create taps without going to court and creating a public record. I do not see the difference between building the tap in or making it an extra cost option, unless it can be made a very expensive option. If tap control cannot be reliably accomplished via technology, cryptographic or otherwise, then we might as well just fight against all tapping and for universal encryption even if it is a lost cause. I think it is clear that no organization and especially no government or corporation can be trusted to police itself either at the frontdoor or the backdoor. --efrem

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Analysis of cost to produce random serail generator.
by crunch＠netcom.com 09 Nov '92

09 Nov '92

At Hackers 8.0, we had a discussion about the feasability of someone building a random data generator. I volunteered to look into this with the hopes of making a cheap and inexpensive device that has 2 DB-9 connectors (Serial through box) to be used to generate random serial data at a particular baud rate. Today, I called Newbridge Micro, they faxed me the data sheets, and gave me the number for a local rep in San Jose. (408) 258-3600, but I was appalled at the price. They wanted $52.50 each in 100 quantity. So it is clear that if I use this chip, which really is a hybred, I cannot charge $50 each. So we have to decide what to do, or how much more it will cost. After examining the data sheet, the chip is probed by a pulse, and a bit comes out with an equal probability of a "1" or a "0". Sorta like a coin toss. I think that the perifery cost of the other electronics, such as shift registers, or UART which would be necessary to clock the bits into an 8 bit register, etc, would cost about $6 - $8 in cost, then I will have to fab the boards. I have friend at Douglas Electronics who can give me a good price. It would cost $150 setup charge for the PC boards and $2 per board. 1 ea RBG1210 $52.50 1 ea PC board $2.00 various chips $8.00 Setup $1.50 (1/100th setup charge) Total parts $63.50 (100 quantity) Cost (4 X parts) $254.00 So, it is clear that the cost is rather high, and not everyone can afford this. But if you think that people will want to buy it at that price, I can go ahead and do it, but the cost to me would be about $250 to build just one of them, and I have someone who can loan me the money to make a prototype. This also includes design time and use of an electronics lab to test and get it running. I wouldn't be able to borrow $6350 to build 100 of them, and I think I can talk the rep into letting me purchase them in smaller quantity, so I can build them on demand. I'm just not so sure that people will want to pay $254 for one of these. So please lets discuss this, among our group to determine if this price is reasonable. Although, it IS possible to use a cesium noise source (Don't know the cost of that) and perhaps I can cut that price down by about a half or a third, but the design time would be much increased, and perhaps there would be twice as much electronics, and perhaps the posibility that the randomness won't be as good. John D.

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No Subject
by mcmahonm＠wybbs.mi.org 07 Nov '92

07 Nov '92

Please add my address to the mailing list.

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