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CFP93 information (fwd)
by yanek＠novavax.nova.edu 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

The following message was posted to Extropians by Fred Moulton. Forwarded message: > Message-Id: <9211281835.AA05819(a)geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu> > To: Extropians(a)gnu.ai.mit.edu > Date: Sat, 28 Nov 92 10:31:56 -0800 > From: moulton(a)netcom.com (Fred C. Moulton) > Subject: CFP93 information > > > Attached is some information on CFP93 which might be of interest to some > persons on this list. > > Fred > > > > CFP'93 > The Third Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy > Sponsored by ACM SIGCOMM, SIGCAS & SIGSAC > 9 - 12 March 1993 > San Francisco Airport Marriott Hotel, Burlingame, CA > > > SCOPE > > The advance of computer and telecommunications technologies holds > great promise for individuals and society. From convenience for > consumers and efficiency in commerce to improved public health and > safety and increased participation in democratic institutions, > these technologies can fundamentally transform our lives. > > At the same time these technologies pose threats to the ideals of > a free and open society. Personal privacy is increasingly at risk > from invasion by high-tech surveillance and eavesdropping. The > myriad databases containing personal information maintained in the > public and private sectors expose private life to constant scrutiny. > > Technological advances also enable new forms of illegal activity, > posing new problems for legal and law enforcement officials and > challenging the very definitions of crime and civil liberties. But > technologies used to combat these crimes can threaten the > traditional barriers between the individual and the state. > > Even such fundamental notions as speech, assembly and property are > being transformed by these technologies, throwing into question > the basic Constitutional protections that have guarded them. > Similarly, information knows no borders; as the scope of economies > becomes global and as networked communities transcend > international boundaries, ways must be found to reconcile > competing political, social and economic interests in the digital > domain. > > The Third Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy will > assemble experts, advocates and interested people from a broad > spectrum of disciplines and backgrounds in a balanced public forum > to address the impact of computer and telecommunications > technologies on freedom and privacy in society. Participants will > include people from the fields of computer science, law, business, > research, information, library science, health, public policy, > government, law enforcement, public advocacy and many others. > > Topics covered in previous CFP conferences include: > > Personal Information and Privacy > International Perspectives and Impacts > Law Enforcement and Civil Liberties > Ethics, Morality and Criminality > Electronic Speech, Press and Assembly > Who Logs On (Computer & Telecom Networks) > Free Speech and the Public Telephone Network > Access to Government Information > Computer-based Surveillance of Individuals > Computers in the Workplace > Who Holds the Keys? (Cryptography) > Who's in Your Genes? (Genetic Information) > Ethics and Education > Public Policy for the 21st Century > > INFORMATION > > For more information on the CFP'93 program and advance > registration, as it becomes available, write to: > > CFP'93 Information > 2210 Sixth Street > Berkeley, CA 94710 > > or send email to: cfp93(a)well.sf.ca.us with the word > "Information" in the subject line. > > THE ORGANIZERS > > General Chair > ------------- > Bruce R. Koball > CFP'93 > 2210 Sixth Street > Berkeley, CA 94710 > 510-845-1350 (voice) > 510-845-3946 (fax) > bkoball(a)well.sf.ca.us > > Steering Committee > ------------------ > John Baker Mitch Ratcliffe > Equifax MacWeek Magazine > > Mary J. Culnan David D. Redell > Georgetown University DEC Systems Research > Center > Dorothy Denning > Georgetown University Marc Rotenberg > Computer Professionals > Les Earnest for Social Responsibility > GeoGroup, Inc. > C. James Schmidt > Mike Godwin San Jose State University > Electronic Frontier Foundation > Barbara Simons > Mark Graham IBM > Pandora Systems > Lee Tien > Lance J. Hoffman Attorney > George Washington University > George Trubow > Donald G. Ingraham John Marshall Law School > Office of the District Attorney, > Alameda County, CA Willis Ware > Rand Corp. > Simona Nass > Student - Cardozo Law School Jim Warren > MicroTimes > Peter G. Neumann & Autodesk, Inc. > SRI International > > Affiliations are listed for identification only. > > > -- Yanek Martinson mthvax.cs.miami.edu!safe0!yanek uunet!medexam!yanek this address preferred -->> yanek(a)novavax.nova.edu <<-- this address preferred Phone (305) 765-6300 daytime FAX: (305) 765-6708 1321 N 65 Way/Hollywood (305) 963-1931 evenings (305) 981-9812 Florida, 33024-5819

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bounced mail
by Eric Hughes 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

We've made a small change to the way mail gets sent out to the list which should alleviate the bounced message problem. The change went into effect last night. It should take care of most, but perhaps not all, of the problems. So, take heart. Starting in a few days, please _do_ forward bounce reports to cypherpunks-request(a)toad.com. At that point I'll want them for further debugging. Eric with the list maintainer hat on

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Misc. Items
by Hal 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

A few random points related to messages from the last few days. (First, a "meta" point - whenever I post to this list, I get from 3 to about 10 messages over 2 or 3 days reporting on delivery errors. It would be nicer if these went to someone else. Some of the messages include as many as 20 or 30 names of list subscribers who were apparently included in the same "outgoing batch" as the bounced mail.) On PGP key verification: I understand that Branko hopes to get version 2.1 of PGP out in a week or so. One of the new features will be a mode to display a MD5 hash of each PGP key to facilitate read-aloud over the telephone. This should make it easier to phone-verify PGP keys, so we can have more _good_ sigs. On pseudonyms and reputations: Several people have suggested that it would be easy to conjure up dozens of fake personalities who would then vouch for each other, giving the illusion of a well-founded and trusted pseudonym. This would be ideal for con men and cops. This can be defeated by the use of the is-a-person credential, which Chaum describes in a couple of his papers, including CACM Oct 1985. This is a signed document given by an organization which makes you come in and give your thumbprint. The document is "re-blinded" a la Chaums' proposals for electronic cash, so that there can be no linkage between your is-a-person document and your actual thumbprint. However, the thumbprint makes it so you can't get more than one is-a-person document. Now, when you go to apply for credit, and you say, here are signatures from dozens of people that I've done business with in the past, and I've paid them all off on time, the first thing the creditor is going to ask is, who are all these people? Are they legit? Can you at least show me is-a-person creds on them? You won't be able to. You only have one is-a-person credential, and you can't make more. Again, these credentials do _not_ hurt crypto anonymity. There is no linkage between your credential and anything else about you. On electronic banking: The interesting thing about electronic banking is digital cash. The key feature of digital cash is anonymity of payments. There is nothing subversive about this. Ordinary cash has (nearly) this property. Are you being subversive when you buy a newspaper without paying by check or credit card? Of course not. The point is, we want to use digital payments so that we can transact business over the net. But the more things get computerized, the more possible forms of monitoring there are, by businesses as well as gov- ernments. There's nothing immoral in trying to keep VISA from knowing whom I like to do business with. Digital cash is designed to allow the convenience of electronic shopping, while keeping the privacy of ordinary cash payments. Conceptually, it's a simple idea. Technically, what has to be done to turn an electronic banking proposal such as Don Bellenger's into electronic cash is some way to make it so that withdrawals can't be paired up with deposits. You also need, of course, to prevent cheating such as spending the same piece of cash twice. It's not trivial to meet these requirements. The Chaum proposal I described is the simplest one that I know of that achieves this. On remailers: I haven't yet succeeded in doing a doubly-encrypted remailer test using Bill O'Hanlon's and mine. Once this works, I'll post instructions on how to do this, and possibly a script or two to make it easier. With two encrypted anonymous remailers, you can for the first time send anonymous messages such that no one person can know whom you are sending to. Bill and I would have to collude to find out who sent a particular anonymous message. If more such remailers can start operating, such collusion will become that much more difficult. On John Draper: I just wanted to say publically that the famous "Captain Crunch" was an inspiration to me when I was in college in the 1970's. Although I did not become a "phone phreak" or "cracker" he represented to me the spirit of questioning authority and exploring beyond the accepted bounds of the system. I have followed his career to some extent over the years and I think he has more than paid for any sins he may have committed in his youth. I for one am thrilled to have the idol of my younger days on the list. Hal 74076.1041(a)compuserve.com

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unsubscribe nathanf@cup.portal.com
by nathanf＠cup.portal.com 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

unsubscribe nathanf(a)cup.portal.com

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FutureCulture FAQ
by yanek＠novavax.nova.edu 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

Does anyone have a copy? Nyx seems to be down for the last couple of days so I can't get it. Don't send it to me, I don't want to have 150 copies of this fairly large document pile up in my mailbox overnight, just let me know if you have it, and I will request ONE of you to send it. Thanks. Yanek, yanek(a)novavax.nova.edu

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Re: ping..mailing list integrity..
by Richard Childers 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

"So if you posted a message, you could check in the evening if it got out or not. If you are not sure if you are receiving all the messages, you could maintain a simlar file yourself, and at the end of day compare your notes with what is received from the list." This could be spoofed by an intermediate delivery agent also ... Generally, in netnews, I regard mail back from individuals or test sites which honor posts to *.test newsgroups as adequate confirmation. These, too, could be spoofed, I suppose, but that's a degree of duplicity that is so complicated to maintain for an indefinite period of time that it is unlikely to ever be put into practice, IMHO, since it's bound to fail in the long term, and would probably result in a backlash of disfavor towards organizations practicing, supporting or funding such behavior. Perhaps an equivalent service could be implemented where some people's systems make a point of sending mail directly to posters to verify that their posting was posted. Bitnet's LISTSERV software does this, which is very convenient when one is managing a listserver entirely by email from a few thousand miles away. Other mail servers - Home Brew Digest comes to mind - do the same thing ... Grist for the collective mill. -- richard

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verification of posting
by Richard Childers 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

Below is a copy of the email I received as a consequence of posting to the Home Brew Digest. Of course, the HBD is a digest, not a mail list ... but it occurs to me, it is much harder to interfere with the operation of a Digest. The Digest comes out once a day, it has ( usually ) a table of contents at the top, and, if one received email telling where in the queue one's message was, one could verify it by reading the Digest when next issued forth. As well as discussing it with individuals separately via email, which provides a redundancy of sorts to this verification process. Eternal vigiliance and all that. Freedom is not a passive process !! -- richard > From homebrew-request(a)hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Fri Nov 27 18:31:24 1992 > Reply-To: homebrew-request(a)hpfcmi.fc.hp.com > Errors-To: homebrew-request(a)hpfcmi.fc.hp.com > Subject: Re: A clarificatioon on clarification > > > > (This message has been generated by a program, and is for your > information only. No further action is necessary.) > > Your article has been received for publication in the Homebrew > Digest. There are currently 2 article(s) ahead of yours in > the queue that will be published first. > > Thanks for your submission and your support of the Digest! > > > Rob (program author) > > >

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Re: comments on Don's "Cypher Bank"
by mark＠coombs.anu.edu.au 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

richard childers (rchilder(a)us.oracle.com) : >It might be more likely to arrange for a compromise where numbered accounts >are permitted iff account balances are publically available also. > >This might have interesting spinoffs, such as allowing a much wider range >of interested individuals, access to economic data at the level usually >reserved for banking institutions. We might - as many people have noted - >learn much and contribute accordingly to both economic and cryptographic >theory. It is said information should be free... however, if someone was (and someone undoubtedly would), to monitor the bank(s) they would probably see accounts going up and down by various amounts and it should be possible to track transactions between identities. This, coupled with widespread traffic analysis (assuming no padding had occured) would allow someone to deduce that Alice had asked something of Bob and had then paid him. This probably isnt particularly inviting to the majority to know that your funds could be traced very anonymously and that patterns could be formulated... for instance three times a month various amounts are deducted from your account and those exact same amounts appear in an account known to be owned by a 1-900 phone sex number. That would have an affect on your reputation, (if not your marriage if your True Name was known), if it was published. (The 1-900's identity could be discovered simply by someone using the service and noting what psuedonym took your funds, or if that was changed, noting which account increased by your $127.30. (It was an intense call I guess :) If you wish to entertain such a testbed financial system be very careful with any decision made and work through each possible consequence. Most people I think would prefer to remain anonymous. I know I would, in the long run. Mark mark(a)coombs.anu.edu.au

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How Far is Too Far
by Alan Hunter 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

Phil Karn said: I must concur with George Gleason's remarks about "sneaking around in the shadows of legality". I find myself getting a little uncomfortable with some of the more anarchistic ideas expounded in this and similar groups. [and lots of other sensible things] Just as good fences make good neighbors, we may well find that in the hands of the people, good cryptography will make for good government. That's why I find cryptography so interesting, and that's how we should sell it to the public. And as an authentication tool. There are many things that, while I would rather they were private, the authentication aspects are more important to me. Borrowing Money from the bank, any transaction. People cotton on very fast to authentication and digital signatures, they like the idea and buy into the need. Alan

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Re: Electronic Banking
by tony＠morgan.demon.co.uk 28 Nov '92

28 Nov '92

In message <9211280427.AA21844(a)rchilder.us.oracle.com> you write: > > "Using the net, the 'banker' could easily be 'offshore' and not > subject to US law in these matters." > > Feds busted some folks doing just this with modems in Puerto Rico, > I think it was, within the past year ... heard it on NPR, maybe it > was BBC or CBC ... > > > -- richard The 'Feds' writ does not run everywhere. After all, Puerto Rico _is_ a US colony. Tony ------------------+-------------------------------+--------------------------+ | Tony Kidson |`morgan' is an 8MB 486/33 Cat-| Voice +44 81 466 5127 | | Morgan Towers, |Warmer with a 670 MB Hard Disk.| E-Mail | | Morgan Road, |It resides at Morgan Towers in| tony(a)morgan.demon.co.uk | | Bromley, |Beautiful Down Town Bromley. | tny(a)cix.compulink.co.uk | | England BR1 3QE | -=<*>=- | 100024.301(a)compuserve.com| +=================+===============================+==========================+

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