- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

CDR: TOP SECRET INFO
by STRKDOGG＠aol.com 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

MAKE MONEY FAST, EASY, AND LEGALLY -------------------------------------------------------------------- : Posted by $$$strick:nine$$$ on oct, 2000 at 22:08:47: : : April, 1997 : Fellow Debtor: : This is going to sound like a con, but in fact IT WORKS! The person who : is now #8 on the list was #9 when I got it, which was only a few days ago. : Five dollars is a small investment in your future. Forget the lottery : for a week, and give this a try. It can work for ALL of us. : You can edit this list with a word processor or text editor and then : convert it to a text file. : Good Luck!! : Dear Friend: : My name is Johnny Ponce. In September 1998 my car was repossessed and the : bill collectors were hounding me like you wouldn't believe. I was laid : off and my unemployment checks had run out. The only escape I had from : the pressures of failure was my computer and my modem. I longed to turn : my advocation into my vocation. : In January 1999 my family and I went on a ten day cruise to the tropics. : I bought a brand new Lincoln Town Car with CASH in February 1989. I am : currently building a new home on the west coast of Florida, with a private : pool, boat slip, an a beautiful view of the bay from my breakfast room : table and patio. I will never have to work again. Today I am RICH! I have : earned over $400,000.00 (Four Hundred Thousand Dollars) to date and will : become a millionaire within 4 or 5 months. Anyone can do the same. This : money making program works perfectly every time, 100% of the time. I have : NEVER failed to earn $50,000.00 or more whenever I wanted. Best of all, : you never have to leave home except to go to your mailbox or post office. : In October 1998, I received a letter in the mail telling me how I could : earn $50,000.00 or more whenever I wanted. I was naturally very skeptical : and threw the letter on the desk next to my computer. It's funny though, : when you are desparate, backed into a corner, your mind does crazy things. : I spent a frustrating day looking through the want ads for a job with a : future. The pickings were sparse at best. That night I tried to unwind : by booting up my computer and calling several bulletin boards. I read : several of the messages posted and then glanced at the letter laying next : to the computer. All at once it became clear to me. I now had the key to : my dreams. : I realized that with the power of the computer I could expand and enhance : this money making formula into the most unbelievable cash flow generator : that has ever been created. I substituted the computer bulletin boards in : place of the post office and electronically did by computer what others : were doing by mail. Now only a few letters are mailed manually. Most of : the hard work is speedily downloaded to other bulletin boards throughout : the world. If you believe that someday you deserve that lucky break that : you have waited for all of your life, simply follow the easy instructions : below. Your dreams WILL come true. : : Sincerely yours, : Johnny Ponce : : *************************************************************** : -----========INSTRUCTIONS===============----- : *************************************************************** : Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days you will have : received well over $50,000.00 cash, all yours. This program has remained successful : because of the HONESTY and integrety of the participants. Please continue : its success by CAREFULLY ADHERING to the instructions. : Welcome to the world of Mail Order! This little business is somewhat : different than most mail order houses. Your product is not solid and tangible, but : rather a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many : large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. : (The money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is : made from people like yourself requesting that they be included in that : list.) : : [1] Immediately mail $1.00 to the first 5 names listed below, starting at : number 1 through number 5. SEND CASH ONLY. (Total investment: $5.00) : Enclose a note with each letter stating: : "Please add my name to your mailing list". : Include; Your name, Mailing address, and E-mail address. : (note) This is a legitimate service that you are requesting and you are : paying $1.00 for this service. : [2] Remove the name that appears as number 1 on the list. Move the other : 9 names up one position (Number 2 becomes number 1, number 3 becomes : number 2, and so on). Place your name, address, and zip code in the : number 10 position. : (note) You do not need to add your e-mail address to the list. Only add : your e-mail address to the 5 letters you send to the first 5 names : listed. : (extra note) When you change the names and put your name in the 10 : position, you have to Save As when you are done.... : then to send this to yourself so your name is in the 10 : position, hit compose mail...then attach this file and : send this file to yourself.......then it will work to send : to other people. : [3] With your name in the number 10 position, upload this ENTIRE file to : 10 (ten) different bulletin boards. You may post it to the BBS's : message base or to the file section. Name it FASTCASH.TXT, and use the : file description comments to draw attention to this file and its great : potential for all of us. In addition, send this out by E-Mail to as many : people as possible. : (note) Essentially what this does is circulate this file around, which is what you : want to do. So sending this out to as many people as you can is to your benefit. : [4] Within 60 days you will receive over $50,000.00 in CASH. : : Keep a copy of this file for yourself so that you can use it again and again : whenever you need money. As soon as you mail out these letters you are : automatically in the mail order business. People will be sending YOU $1.00 : to be placed on your mailing list. : This mailing list can then be rented to a broker that can be found in your : local yellow pages listings for additional income on a regular basis. The : list will become more valuable as it grows in size. : This is a service. ** IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL ** : If you have any doubts as to the legality of this service, please refer to : Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 of the Postal Lottery Laws. : NOTE: Make sure that you retain EVERY name and address sent to you, either : on computer or hard copy, but do not discard the names and notes that : people send to you. This is PROOF that you are truly providing a : service, and should the I.R.S. or some other government agency question : you, you can provide them with this proof! : Remember, as each post is downloaded and the instructions carefully followed, : five memebers will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer : with $1.00 each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when : your name reaches the number 5 position you will be receiving thousands of : dollars in cash. : REMEMBER - THIS PROGRAM FAILS ONLY IF YOU ARE NOT HONEST - PLEASE!! : PLEASE BE HONORABLE...IT DOES WORK! THANK YOU : : *************************************************************** : -----============THE LIST===============----- : *************************************************************** : 1.Marty Aliniz rt. 10 box 139-a : edinburg tx. 78539 : 2. David Salinger 47 Diana's Trail : Roslyn, NY 11576 : 3. Tim Gulczynski 2171 Clark St. : East Troy, WI 53120 : 4. Brian Gregson 4404 E. 90th Pl. : Tulsa, OK 74137 : 5. Jesse Zuckerman 19475 Woodlands Lane : Huntington Beach, CA 92648 : 6. David Jenson 47 1/2 West 200 North : Price, UT 84501 : 7. Roger Lew 1433 5th Ave. : Oakland, Ca, 94606 : 8. Chris Karow 701 Fulton St. S.E. #287 : Minneapolis, MN 55455 : 9. James Huff 1097 Glenwood dr. : Radcliff, Ky 40160 : 10. Juan F. Ponce 6245 Parkside ave. : San Diego, C.A. 92139 . : : ****************************************************************************** *********** : The following letters were written by a participating members in this program: : *************************************************************************** ************** : To those with the COMMON sense to participate in this easy money opportunity: : About six months ago I received the enclosed post in letter form. I : ignored it. I received about five more of the same letter within the next : two week.I ignored them also. Of course, I was tempted to follow through : and dreamed of making thousands, but I was convinced it was just another gimmick : and could not possibly work. : I was wrong! About three weeks later I saw this same letter posted on a : local bulletin board in Montreal. I liked the idea of giving it a try with my : computer. I didn't expect much because I figured, if other people were as : skeptical as I, they would not be too quick to part with $5.00. But, I BUY : LOTTERY TICKETS WEEKLY IN MY PROVINCE AND HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT BUT : TICKET STUBS! This week I decided to look at this as my weekly lottery : purchase. I addressed the envelopes and mailed out $1.00 in each as directed. : Two weeks went by and I didn't receive anything in the mail. The fourth week : rolled around and I couldn't believe what happened! I can not say that I : received $50,000.00, but it was definitely well over $35,000.00! For the : first time in 10 years I got out of debt. It was great. Of course, it did not : take me long to go through my earnings, so I am using this excellent money : opportunity once again. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AND GET READY TO ENJOY! : Please send a copy of this letter along with the enclosed letter so together : we can convince people who are skeptical that this really does work! : : Good Luck, : Charles Kust : St Agathe Que. : : ANOTHER ADDITION BY A PARTICIPATING MEMBER : WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE, A MAXIMUM OF 5$ !JUST TRY IT! : SPREAD IT EVERYWHERE, THE MORE YOU SPREAD THE MORE YOU MAKE! : : (((((Roger Lew))))) : Hello, my name is Roger Lew . As you may have : noticed I'm the seventh name on this list, so I do not have : a rags-to-riches story to tell here. However, I did make : a phone call to the 2nd name on this list, Jane Beckon. : Did she have a rags to riches story to tell? Not exactly, : but then I found out that she did not follow the : instructions precisely. You see, Jane lost faith in : the program before she had finished following instructions. : She only uploaded this file on one BBS, which happens to be : operated by Brian Sassounian, the 3rd name on this list. : Jane told me that she has received $600.00 to date : (1/6/95). I realize this is far from the $50,000.00 : promised at the first of this file, yet one must keep : two things in mind: : 1. $600.00 is more than 100 times her initial investment, and it only took about : an hour of her time (there's nothing to lose). : 2. This program works mathematically on an exponential scale. In other : words, for every one BBS that this file is uploaded onto, it should : spread to at least ten other BBSs and possibly a whole lot more. So, if : Jane had uploaded his file on all ten BBSs, she should have at least : gotten a hundred-fold of what she has, which would be $600.00. Not bad : for a few hours work and a $6.25 investment (including postage). : Finally, I would like to exhort those who become involved : in this program to maintain its integrity by being honest. : It is the only way that it can possibly pay off. In other : words, be sure to enter your name at the bottom of the : list and not in one of the top five positions (actually : this would be robbing yourself since it is while your name : is in the lower positions that it gets multiplied : exponentially over hundreds of BBSs). And, of course, : send your $1.00 off to the first five names. As I write : this I have not made a penny (that's because I have not : uploaded this yet), but I thought you might like to hear : from someone at the bottom of the list, instead of someone : claiming rags-to-riches. I hope such is true, and I'm : sure it will be if we all stick with it. The potential is : definitely here! : : =============================================================== : OK HERE'S THE DEAL. AT PRESENT I AM A BUSINESS MAJOR AT VANDERBILT : AND THIS PROGRAM MAKES A WORLD OF SENSE TO ME. I RECENTLY READ ABOUT : A GUY THAT TOOK A PENNY FROM EVERY PERSON'S BANK ACCOUNT AT THE NEW YORK : CITY BANK. AFTER 2 YEARS OF DOING THIS ILLEGALY HE BECAME A MILLIONAIRE. : BUT GOT GREEDY AND GOT CAUGHT. SAME PRINCIPLE HERE. TAKE A DOLLAR : FROM EVERYONE WHO GETS THIS AND ALTHOUGH THEIR GIVING PRACTICALLY : NOTHING, THE RECEIVER IS GETTING LOTS. SORTA THE HUMANE THING TO DO. : IF YOU COULD GIVE A GUY A BUCK AND HELP HIM HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY OFF A : DEBT OR SAVE MONEY FOR RETIREMENT WHY NOT? THEN AFTER YOU SEND A : DOLLAR JUST MANIPULATE THIS FILE LIKE IT STATES ABOVE AND PEOPLE WILL BE : HELPING YOU OUT TOO. MY DAD TAUGHT ME TO BE CAREFUL OF THINGS THAT : SOUND TO GOOD TO BE TRUE CAUSE THEY USUALLY ARE BUT WHAT CAN YOU : LOSE BY GIVING $5!!! YOU HAVE ALL TO WIN AND NOTHING TO LOSE. L8R ------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

CDR: needs
by diego 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

send me a copy of anarchy's cookbook please

2 1

CDR: MONEY FOR FREE!
by STRKDOGG＠aol.com 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

MAKE MONEY FAST, EASY, AND LEGALLY -------------------------------------------------------------------- : Posted by $$$strick:nine$$$ on oct, 2000 at 22:08:47: : : April, 1997 : Fellow Debtor: : This is going to sound like a con, but in fact IT WORKS! The person who : is now #8 on the list was #9 when I got it, which was only a few days ago. : Five dollars is a small investment in your future. Forget the lottery : for a week, and give this a try. It can work for ALL of us. : You can edit this list with a word processor or text editor and then : convert it to a text file. : Good Luck!! : Dear Friend: : My name is Johnny Ponce. In September 1998 my car was repossessed and the : bill collectors were hounding me like you wouldn't believe. I was laid : off and my unemployment checks had run out. The only escape I had from : the pressures of failure was my computer and my modem. I longed to turn : my advocation into my vocation. : In January 1999 my family and I went on a ten day cruise to the tropics. : I bought a brand new Lincoln Town Car with CASH in February 1989. I am : currently building a new home on the west coast of Florida, with a private : pool, boat slip, an a beautiful view of the bay from my breakfast room : table and patio. I will never have to work again. Today I am RICH! I have : earned over $400,000.00 (Four Hundred Thousand Dollars) to date and will : become a millionaire within 4 or 5 months. Anyone can do the same. This : money making program works perfectly every time, 100% of the time. I have : NEVER failed to earn $50,000.00 or more whenever I wanted. Best of all, : you never have to leave home except to go to your mailbox or post office. : In October 1998, I received a letter in the mail telling me how I could : earn $50,000.00 or more whenever I wanted. I was naturally very skeptical : and threw the letter on the desk next to my computer. It's funny though, : when you are desparate, backed into a corner, your mind does crazy things. : I spent a frustrating day looking through the want ads for a job with a : future. The pickings were sparse at best. That night I tried to unwind : by booting up my computer and calling several bulletin boards. I read : several of the messages posted and then glanced at the letter laying next : to the computer. All at once it became clear to me. I now had the key to : my dreams. : I realized that with the power of the computer I could expand and enhance : this money making formula into the most unbelievable cash flow generator : that has ever been created. I substituted the computer bulletin boards in : place of the post office and electronically did by computer what others : were doing by mail. Now only a few letters are mailed manually. Most of : the hard work is speedily downloaded to other bulletin boards throughout : the world. If you believe that someday you deserve that lucky break that : you have waited for all of your life, simply follow the easy instructions : below. Your dreams WILL come true. : : Sincerely yours, : Johnny Ponce : : *************************************************************** : -----========INSTRUCTIONS===============----- : *************************************************************** : Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days you will have : received well over $50,000.00 cash, all yours. This program has remained successful : because of the HONESTY and integrety of the participants. Please continue : its success by CAREFULLY ADHERING to the instructions. : Welcome to the world of Mail Order! This little business is somewhat : different than most mail order houses. Your product is not solid and tangible, but : rather a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many : large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. : (The money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is : made from people like yourself requesting that they be included in that : list.) : : [1] Immediately mail $1.00 to the first 5 names listed below, starting at : number 1 through number 5. SEND CASH ONLY. (Total investment: $5.00) : Enclose a note with each letter stating: : "Please add my name to your mailing list". : Include; Your name, Mailing address, and E-mail address. : (note) This is a legitimate service that you are requesting and you are : paying $1.00 for this service. : [2] Remove the name that appears as number 1 on the list. Move the other : 9 names up one position (Number 2 becomes number 1, number 3 becomes : number 2, and so on). Place your name, address, and zip code in the : number 10 position. : (note) You do not need to add your e-mail address to the list. Only add : your e-mail address to the 5 letters you send to the first 5 names : listed. : (extra note) When you change the names and put your name in the 10 : position, you have to Save As when you are done.... : then to send this to yourself so your name is in the 10 : position, hit compose mail...then attach this file and : send this file to yourself.......then it will work to send : to other people. : [3] With your name in the number 10 position, upload this ENTIRE file to : 10 (ten) different bulletin boards. You may post it to the BBS's : message base or to the file section. Name it FASTCASH.TXT, and use the : file description comments to draw attention to this file and its great : potential for all of us. In addition, send this out by E-Mail to as many : people as possible. : (note) Essentially what this does is circulate this file around, which is what you : want to do. So sending this out to as many people as you can is to your benefit. : [4] Within 60 days you will receive over $50,000.00 in CASH. : : Keep a copy of this file for yourself so that you can use it again and again : whenever you need money. As soon as you mail out these letters you are : automatically in the mail order business. People will be sending YOU $1.00 : to be placed on your mailing list. : This mailing list can then be rented to a broker that can be found in your : local yellow pages listings for additional income on a regular basis. The : list will become more valuable as it grows in size. : This is a service. ** IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL ** : If you have any doubts as to the legality of this service, please refer to : Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 of the Postal Lottery Laws. : NOTE: Make sure that you retain EVERY name and address sent to you, either : on computer or hard copy, but do not discard the names and notes that : people send to you. This is PROOF that you are truly providing a : service, and should the I.R.S. or some other government agency question : you, you can provide them with this proof! : Remember, as each post is downloaded and the instructions carefully followed, : five memebers will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer : with $1.00 each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when : your name reaches the number 5 position you will be receiving thousands of : dollars in cash. : REMEMBER - THIS PROGRAM FAILS ONLY IF YOU ARE NOT HONEST - PLEASE!! : PLEASE BE HONORABLE...IT DOES WORK! THANK YOU : : *************************************************************** : -----============THE LIST===============----- : *************************************************************** : 1.Marty Aliniz rt. 10 box 139-a : edinburg tx. 78539 : 2. David Salinger 47 Diana's Trail : Roslyn, NY 11576 : 3. Tim Gulczynski 2171 Clark St. : East Troy, WI 53120 : 4. Brian Gregson 4404 E. 90th Pl. : Tulsa, OK 74137 : 5. Jesse Zuckerman 19475 Woodlands Lane : Huntington Beach, CA 92648 : 6. David Jenson 47 1/2 West 200 North : Price, UT 84501 : 7. Roger Lew 1433 5th Ave. : Oakland, Ca, 94606 : 8. Chris Karow 701 Fulton St. S.E. #287 : Minneapolis, MN 55455 : 9. James Huff 1097 Glenwood dr. : Radcliff, Ky 40160 : 10. Juan F. Ponce 6245 Parkside ave. : San Diego, C.A. 92139 . : : ****************************************************************************** *********** : The following letters were written by a participating members in this program: : *************************************************************************** ************** : To those with the COMMON sense to participate in this easy money opportunity: : About six months ago I received the enclosed post in letter form. I : ignored it. I received about five more of the same letter within the next : two week.I ignored them also. Of course, I was tempted to follow through : and dreamed of making thousands, but I was convinced it was just another gimmick : and could not possibly work. : I was wrong! About three weeks later I saw this same letter posted on a : local bulletin board in Montreal. I liked the idea of giving it a try with my : computer. I didn't expect much because I figured, if other people were as : skeptical as I, they would not be too quick to part with $5.00. But, I BUY : LOTTERY TICKETS WEEKLY IN MY PROVINCE AND HAVE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT BUT : TICKET STUBS! This week I decided to look at this as my weekly lottery : purchase. I addressed the envelopes and mailed out $1.00 in each as directed. : Two weeks went by and I didn't receive anything in the mail. The fourth week : rolled around and I couldn't believe what happened! I can not say that I : received $50,000.00, but it was definitely well over $35,000.00! For the : first time in 10 years I got out of debt. It was great. Of course, it did not : take me long to go through my earnings, so I am using this excellent money : opportunity once again. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AND GET READY TO ENJOY! : Please send a copy of this letter along with the enclosed letter so together : we can convince people who are skeptical that this really does work! : : Good Luck, : Charles Kust : St Agathe Que. : : ANOTHER ADDITION BY A PARTICIPATING MEMBER : WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE, A MAXIMUM OF 5$ !JUST TRY IT! : SPREAD IT EVERYWHERE, THE MORE YOU SPREAD THE MORE YOU MAKE! : : (((((Roger Lew))))) : Hello, my name is Roger Lew . As you may have : noticed I'm the seventh name on this list, so I do not have : a rags-to-riches story to tell here. However, I did make : a phone call to the 2nd name on this list, Jane Beckon. : Did she have a rags to riches story to tell? Not exactly, : but then I found out that she did not follow the : instructions precisely. You see, Jane lost faith in : the program before she had finished following instructions. : She only uploaded this file on one BBS, which happens to be : operated by Brian Sassounian, the 3rd name on this list. : Jane told me that she has received $600.00 to date : (1/6/95). I realize this is far from the $50,000.00 : promised at the first of this file, yet one must keep : two things in mind: : 1. $600.00 is more than 100 times her initial investment, and it only took about : an hour of her time (there's nothing to lose). : 2. This program works mathematically on an exponential scale. In other : words, for every one BBS that this file is uploaded onto, it should : spread to at least ten other BBSs and possibly a whole lot more. So, if : Jane had uploaded his file on all ten BBSs, she should have at least : gotten a hundred-fold of what she has, which would be $600.00. Not bad : for a few hours work and a $6.25 investment (including postage). : Finally, I would like to exhort those who become involved : in this program to maintain its integrity by being honest. : It is the only way that it can possibly pay off. In other : words, be sure to enter your name at the bottom of the : list and not in one of the top five positions (actually : this would be robbing yourself since it is while your name : is in the lower positions that it gets multiplied : exponentially over hundreds of BBSs). And, of course, : send your $1.00 off to the first five names. As I write : this I have not made a penny (that's because I have not : uploaded this yet), but I thought you might like to hear : from someone at the bottom of the list, instead of someone : claiming rags-to-riches. I hope such is true, and I'm : sure it will be if we all stick with it. The potential is : definitely here! : : =============================================================== : OK HERE'S THE DEAL. AT PRESENT I AM A BUSINESS MAJOR AT VANDERBILT : AND THIS PROGRAM MAKES A WORLD OF SENSE TO ME. I RECENTLY READ ABOUT : A GUY THAT TOOK A PENNY FROM EVERY PERSON'S BANK ACCOUNT AT THE NEW YORK : CITY BANK. AFTER 2 YEARS OF DOING THIS ILLEGALY HE BECAME A MILLIONAIRE. : BUT GOT GREEDY AND GOT CAUGHT. SAME PRINCIPLE HERE. TAKE A DOLLAR : FROM EVERYONE WHO GETS THIS AND ALTHOUGH THEIR GIVING PRACTICALLY : NOTHING, THE RECEIVER IS GETTING LOTS. SORTA THE HUMANE THING TO DO. : IF YOU COULD GIVE A GUY A BUCK AND HELP HIM HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY OFF A : DEBT OR SAVE MONEY FOR RETIREMENT WHY NOT? THEN AFTER YOU SEND A : DOLLAR JUST MANIPULATE THIS FILE LIKE IT STATES ABOVE AND PEOPLE WILL BE : HELPING YOU OUT TOO. MY DAD TAUGHT ME TO BE CAREFUL OF THINGS THAT : SOUND TO GOOD TO BE TRUE CAUSE THEY USUALLY ARE BUT WHAT CAN YOU : LOSE BY GIVING $5!!! YOU HAVE ALL TO WIN AND NOTHING TO LOSE. L8R ------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

CDR: MGM - Apresenta 2 em 1
by apoio＠giganetstore.com 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

1 0

CDR: Two items, of varying relevance to the list
by Tim May 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

Two items which may have only slight relevance to the list. I've been waiting for an opportunity to mention them in context... First, Judea Pearl's "Causality." A mix of logic, AI, and ontology. Closely related to issues of belief and causality. (Some of you may know of my interest in Dempster-Shafer belief theory...this is closely related.) Second, just watched "Lola rennt," aka "Run, Lola, Run," for the fourth or fifth time. Saw it in a theater the first time, a year or so ago. It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign expressions, and so, it seems, has German. Of these two points, the Pearl book is more significant, ultimately. But the film has its place. Sorry there is no "crypto significance" here. No S-box details, no Rijndael details. TS. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

4 4

CDR: RE: Anonymous Remailers cpunk
by Trei, Peter 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

Jim: This is the last time I'm going to respond to you on this topic. Everyone else understands my point, and there's a limit to how much effort I'm going to go to correct a single obtuse individual. > ---------- > Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage@einstein.ssz.com] wrote > On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Trei, Peter wrote: > > > A spammer (or your spammer's proxy) is not going to > > individually encrypt messages to thousands or > > millions of end-recipients, each with their own public > > key - the time factor makes this uneconomical, and > > the hassle factor of finding all the recipient public > > keys makes it impractical. Thus, only remailers > > which send out plaintext are useful to spammers > > as exit remailers. > > They do it now, sans encryption. The mass distribution is what makes it > economical. If the encryption can be gateway'ed then it's useless and > doesn't raise the cost significantly. > > A more useful mechanism would be to distribute the keys and appropriate > client software to spammers. What's a flat $50?... > $50 is nothing, of course. Requiring that each message to be encrypted with the final recipient's public key is far from nothing. Sending 10^5 emails without encryption is trivial. Encrypting 10^5 emails is far from trivial. We're raising the cost to the spammer far more than we're adding to the effort of the remailer operator. You speak of gatewaying - who exactly is going to set up a free gateway to encrypt 10^5 messages, each to a different public key? All that does is shift the cost to the gatewayer; it does not eliminate it. > > It is only exit remailers (ie, the remailer which sends > > to the final recipient) which get hassled for sending > > spam. > > And it has NOTHING to do with the encryption. The lack of log's is what > prevents back tracing. > Jim: go back to the genesis of this thread. The discussion was along the lines of "There are too few remailers. Why?" Among of the reasons cited are that remailer operators often get shut down by their ISPs or network poviders because of complaints from end recipients of messages - they get spam, threats, illegal material, etc. It does not matter that the remailer keeps no logs; the end recipients mail server does, and that's enough for the recipient's ISP (or the LEAs) to take action. This situation not only gets remailers shut down; it discourages people from starting them in the first place. My proposal makes using the remailer for spam economically prohibitive, and ensures that the only recipients are crypto-aware types, who are far less likely to misunderstand what's going on than J. Random Luser. > > The goal is to make remailer operators life easier by > > preventing them from being used to spam random > > lusers, who may initiate complaints against the > > remailer operator. > > No, the goal is to stop spammers. > There you go again... Please read the thread. The goal is not to 'stop spammers'. It's to 'Stop actions against remailers, some of which are caused by their misuse as spam conduits'. Preventing spam from exiting the remailers achieves that goal. > In addition, there are aspects of remailer operation that make the > complaints about spam pretty irrelevant. > > > It is not to prevent spam passing through a remailer > > somewhere in mid-cloud. While such encrypted > > spam will increase the volume of traffic, for most > > remailers that is a Good Thing - more material to > > confuse the traffic analysis. As long as it gets > > dropped before leaving the remailer network, no > > harm is done. > > Nobody said anything about the interim processing until now. How is this > relevant to the 'free speech' aspect of requiring the use of particular > forms of encryption end-to-end. > That's true. The use of doomed (since they'll be dropped before they leave the network) spam messages as cover traffic is something that occured to me as I wrote the letter. It is a nice side effect of my proposal, as long as spammers continue to send doomed spam into the system. > Where's the key management mechanism to ensure the security of the traffic > in the reamiler network? > Same as it always was. > > Steve understands this, as does every one else but > > you. > > > > What's the problem? > > It's your problem, there are aspects of this proposal that are simply > silly, and several others that haven't been adequately explained or > examined. > > You talk about decreasing the load due to spam, and don't even recognize > that you've replaced it with a whole other process. One that potentialy > could be more complicated, error prone, and expensive in time and resource > impact than the original 'problem'. > No Jim, I'm not talking about decreasing the load due to spam. I'm talking about making life easier for remailer operators. In the long run, it'll reduce spam as well, since spammers will learn not to include remailers which send only encrypted mail in their remailer chains. > The solution to bad speech is more speech, not regulation. And don't kid > yourself that setting up such a mechanism isn't regulatory. > A remailer operator can operate his remailer in any way he or she wants, and so long as they publish their policies and adhere to them, there is no basis for anyone to criticize them (this is a thing called 'freedom'). > > Any remailer operator can decide not to pass along plaintext. So long as > the > > message sender is aware of this property, nothing more needs to be > > distributed. > > There are no increased sysadmin issues. > > What algorithm are you proposing to identify plain-text? There are key > managment issues, what is your proposal for this problem? There is the > increased complication of admining the box (think of resources to support > both the remailer operation as well as the encryption - consider that > scale carefuly). > > I'm in Zimbabwe and the remailer is in the US, how do I manage the keys to > enter the network in such a way that it is secure? > Jim: I think I'm beginning to appreciate the depth of your lack of comprehension. Remailers do not encrypt anything. All the encryption steps are done by the originator of the message - successively encrypting the message with public key of the recipient (an optional step in current remailers), and then by the public key of each remailer in the chain working back to the originator. Each remailer decrypts the message with it's private key, All it knows is to send the inner contents on to the next remailer in the chain, or to the final recipient. This is how remailer chaining works today. The only change I propose is that, if after applying it's own public key to decrypt a message, the remailer notices that the decrypted material does not match one of the well known formats for encrypted messages (ie, it is likely plaintext), that it drop the message. I won't discuss the recognition algorithm here, since I have already done so and others have even published sample code. It can be done. > > No, there is not, beyond the fact that the message originator must know > the > > final recipient's public key. > > You need the key to get into the remailer, otherwise how does it tell the > message is encrypted? You seriosly propose sticking some static PGP header > for example will stop anyone, spammers know how to use word processors too > you know. > > > Jim, do you really understand how remailer chaining works? > > Yep. Apparently better than you do. > > Have a nice day you pretentious butthead. > ROTFLMAO > James Choate > Peter Trei

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CDR: More on Carnivore
by George＠Orwellian.Org 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

http://foxnews.com/national/101300/carnivoretwo_riley.sml FBI's Carnivore Just the First Step In Cyber Surveillance Monday, October 16, 2000 By Patrick Riley The FBI says its controversial Carnivore system is just "the tip of the iceberg" when it comes to Internet surveillance because an even sharper-toothed information chomper is now in development. Amid all the hubbub over whether the current system violates privacy rights, the agency has been quietly working on both "Carnivore 2.0" and "Carnivore 3.0," according to FBI documents released this month under a Freedom of Information Act claim filed by the Electronic Privacy Information Center. The current Carnivore is version 1.3.4, according to the documents. An "Enhanced Carnivore" program has been under development since last November - under a $650,000 contract scheduled to end in January 2001. Most of the details on the souped-up snoopers were blacked out in heavy black marker before the papers were released. The Federal Bureau of Investigation makes no bones about its plans for the system, which sifts an Internet Service Provider's transmissions to track suspects' online activity. "As it looks today, it could be completely different a year from now," said FBI spokesman Paul Bresson. "Really, we've only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of the change in technology." He said improving Carnivore is vital for keeping pace with criminal elements. "This is going to continue to be a cat-and-mouse game," he said. "There's always going to be software and other encryption technology that render a system less useful." He declined to give specific details. But privacy experts say an evolving Carnivore presents a problem for those trying to keep an eye on it. "It's a moving target," said David Banisar, a senior fellow at EPIC. "It means there needs to be continual oversight, not just onetime oversight. It means that if we get the source code we'll have to get the source code as it changes also, and do a re-analysis as the functions of the software change." The program's source code, the piece of information most sought after by activists trying to figure out if Carnivore reads the e-mail of more than just those targeted by a court order, was omitted from the 600-plus pages given to EPIC in the first of several planned releases. But the organization has vowed to continue fighting for it. Despite the incomplete technical blueprint, the newly public papers do shed some light on what sequels to Carnivore might look like. Three jargon-heavy lines of text that survived the FBI censor reveal that Version 2.0 will be capable of "built-in data analysis that Carnivore doesn't appear to do now," Banisar said. That means being able to display captured Internet data as soon as Carnivore intercepts it. The current system merely stores the data and two other programs - "Packeteer" and "Coolminer" - must be used to process and display it. No information was released from the Version 3.0 section but research mentioned elsewhere in the unclassified papers involves an aspect of the technology dubbed "Dragon Net" that captures telephone conversations held via the Web - a process known as "voice over IP" technology. Banisar suspects the FBI might also want its future sniffers to have the ability to track multiple targets simultaneously. That wouldn't bode well, he said. "The more capability it has to intercept more than one target, the more likely it is to be abused." While the current Carnivore is purely monogamous, it casts a wider net than commonly thought, according to an analysis of the FBI documents by anti-computer crime site SecurityFocus.com. Carnivore can "be programmed to watch for all the Internet activities of a particular person," said Kevin Poulson, editorial director at SecurityFocus and a former hacker. The system can even reconstruct Web pages viewed by a suspect. "All that's been talked about is its ability to monitor e-mail." In light of this, said EPIC's Banisar: "It makes you wonder what else they could possibly want."

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CDR: Re: Glass doors [was: Rijndael & Hitachi] cpunk
by Trei, Peter 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

> ---------- > From: sustae@intergate.ca[SMTP:sustae@intergate.ca] > I wouldn't recommend boobytrapping the glass in that manner. > I'd go with a ballistic laminate on the glass. [...] > Ed > > At 02:51 PM 10/14/00 -0700, jim bell wrote: > > > > > >The solution is obvious, to a chemist. Make the glass door > double-glazed, > > >sealed at the edges, and filled with hydrogen cyanide (prussic acid). > I agree with Ed - let us not confuse our goals with our means. The goal is to have a door which is transparent - it lets those in look out (and, perhaps only coincidentally) those outside look in. It also acts as a window, letting letting light into the house, and at night illuminating the door area from the inside. The goal is *not* to secure a door made out of glass. The goal is a transparent door. Go with Lexan. I often find stepping back and saying 'exactly what are we actually trying to acheive here?' is a powerful tool for solving problems. Its all too easy to try to add fixes to a bad solution, rather than find a different one. Peter Trei [Anyone remember the guy who proposed invasion proofing a home by boobytrapping it with biowarfare agents, and somehow immunizing your family against them?] [I've dropped coderpunks and cryptography from the cc: list, since this has gone *way* off-topic. - pt ]

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CDR: Fw: [Fwd: Markierte Musik: SDMI Crack]
by Marcel Popescu 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

Yiihaaaa! Will they release SDMI knowing that it is broken? [Not that it wasn't a bad idea from the start.] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Markierte Musik: SDMI Crack Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:32:16 +0200 X-Loop: openpgp.net From: "q/depesche" <depesche(a)quintessenz.at> To: quintessenz-list(a)quintessenz.at q/depesche 00.10.13/1 Markierte Musik: SDMI Crack Wie Salon Magazine berichtet, wurde das von der Musikindustrie favorisierte Muik-Wasserzeichen System, die so genannte "Secure digital Music Initiative" einem Crack zugef|hrt. Was dieser zu bedeuten hat, ist noch nicht ganz sicher. -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- | Watch out -- recording industry executives are about to start running for cover. All of the Secure Digital Music Initiative's watermarks -- its much ballyhooed music protection scheme -- have been broken. A spokesperson for SDMI has denied the reports, but according to three off-the-record sources, the results of the Hack SDMI contest are in and not one single watermark resisted attack. The hacking contest, which invited the general Net population to break the recording industry's watermarking system and win $10,000, ended Sunday; this week, SDMI members are meeting in Los Angeles to discuss the results. Although a core group of participants (including members of the Recording Industry Association of America) who coordinated the testing process are aware of the contest results, the larger SDMI consortium has yet to be informed. The key issue is whether the breaks are meaningful or not -- in other words, could any hacker repeat the breaks, and is the quality of the music preserved even when the watermark is scrubbed out? According to one insider, all these hacks were, in fact, technically "solid." The hacker boycott of SDMI organized by members of the programming community who were suspicious of what they saw as an attempt to coopt their labor in the service of a corrupt industry has turned out to be effectively irrelevant. According to one witness attending the SDMI conference, recording industry members held an emergency meeting at 6 a.m. PDT Thursday to discuss the results. SDMI members and the press will likely be informed Friday, several sources said, although most speculated that the record industry would try to downplay the results. Voll Text <http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2000/10/12/sdmi_hacked/index.html? CP=SAL&DN=660>

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Re: CDR: Authority - is it a useful concept today and in the future?
by Bill Stewart 16 Oct '00

16 Oct '00

At 11:33 AM 10/14/00 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > >This is perhaps the fundamental question to human problems. Do you mean "Is threatening people with violence to get them to obey you a morally acceptable form of behavior" is the question, or do you mean "Does threatening people with violence successfully get what you want often enough that it's worth the risk of having them fight back, or do the peasants usually do a lousy job if you keep whipping them so it's not worth the bother"? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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