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18 Jan '01

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PRO/AH> Chronic wasting disease, elk: informing hunters
by ProMED-mail 18 Jan '01

18 Jan '01

CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE, ELK: INFORMING HUNTERS *********************************************** A ProMED-mail post <http://www.promedmail.org> ProMED-mail is a program of the International Society for Infectious Diseases <http://www.isid.org> [see also: Chronic wasting disease, wild deer - USA (Nebraska) 20010117.0140 2000 ----- Chronic wasting dis., elk - Canada (Saskatchewan) 20000425.0619 Chronic wasting dis., elk - Canada (Saskatchewan) (04) 20001218.2220 Chronic wasting disease, elk - USA (Montana) 20000112.0043 Chronic wasting disease, elk - USA (Montana) (04) 20000728.1252 1999 ----- Chronic wasting disease, deer & elk - USA (western) 19991015.1830 Chronic wasting disease, deer & elk - USA (western... 19991016.1838 Chronic wasting disease, deer - USA (Maine) 19991027.1943 Chronic wasting disease, elk - USA (OK, MT) (02) 19991108.2000 Chronic wasting disease, elk - USA (Oklahoma, Mont... 19990629.1098 1998 ----- Chronic wasting dis., deer & elk - Canada (05) 19980723.1392 Chronic wasting dis., deer & elk - Canada: surveil... 19980210.0264 Chronic wasting dis., deer & elk - USA (Colorado) (04) 19980201.0205 Chronic wasting dis., deer & elk - USA (Colorado) (06) 19980314.0479 1997 ----- Chronic wasting dis., deer & elk - USA (Colorado) (03) 19971122.2346 Chronic wasting disease, deer & elk - USA (Colorad... 19971113.2296 Chronic wasting disease, deer & elk - USA (Colorado) 19970601.1122 TSE, native cervids - USA 19970506.0938 1996 ----- Chronic wasting disease - Canada 19960501.0841 Chronic wasting disease - Canada & USA 19960613.1094 Chronic wasting disease - Canada & USA (2) 19960620.1132 Chronic wasting disease - Canada (2) 19960503.0853 Chronic wasting disease - Canada (2) [Repeat] 19960507.0872 Chronic wasting disease - USA 19960503.0850 Chronic wasting disease - USA (3) 19960508.0890 Chronic wasting disease - USA [Repeat] 19960507.0870] [ProMED-mail would like to apologize for the delay in posting of the questions posed below. It appears as though travel and holiday schedules conspired to leave an opening for a final Y2K bug. Drs. Williams, Miller and Thorne were kind enough to respond to the questions raised by Dr. Sauders. - Mod.MPP] [1] Date: Tue 19 Dec 2000 13:25:42 -0500 From: Brian D. Sauders <bds26(a)cornell.edu> Clearly we are in an era when surveillance for infectious diseases in wildlife is an emerging field in itself. While it is not always clear what the implications of epidemic infectious diseases in wildlife are for human populations, it is clear that humans are often "unlucky" victims of parasites in search of new niches. For public health officials this creates the difficult task of deciding which diseases are important and what to do about them. Often diseases that have achieved a significant morbidity and mortality among human or valuable livestock populations are prioritized for public health intervention. In the case of chronic wasting disease in elk, it would seem that despite efforts to understand the epidemiology of this disease, there is quite a lot that we do not know. We do know that it is relatively rare, but it would appear that (at the very least) we are detecting more cases among domesticated elk herds in recent years. While there are apparent public health interventions to educate hunters about consumption of emaciated animals, is anyone aware of how clearly and how often those messages are given to hunters? Obviously there is no direct evidence of transmissibility to humans. However, hunters are the most likely consumers (other than coyotes, wolves, or buzzards) of wild elk. Are hunters to suspect only animals with overt signs of disease? What would those signs be? Emaciation would seem a relatively vague term to a hunter who just harvested an animal that they had spent thousands of dollars to pursue. Could subclinical or unrecognized CWD lead to transmission to humans? Is information available to hunters at the time of hunter education or licensure? Those would seem the most appropriate times to train individual hunters about what to look for. Pictures of diseased animals with clear clinical signs could be offered for reference. Also, since the hunter guiding industry is big business, consider requiring guides to obtain some basic training in recognizing CWD. Although this may be a difficult task, educating guides to recognize clear signs of disease would provide additional aid to the under-funded wildlife health programs. These seem like interventions that could have a significant impact on enhancing surveillance for this disease in wild game. As an avid hunter and professional in public health, it would be interesting to know what the experts on CWD have to say. -- Brian D. Sauders Cornell University Department of Food Science <bds26(a)cornell.edu> (These comments do not necessarily reflect those of Cornell University or of the Department of Food Science) ****** [2] Date: Tue 16 Jan 2001 16:47:24 -0700 From: Beth Williams <storm(a)uwyo.edu> In response to Dr. Sauders request for information about how hunters are informed about chronic wasting disease (CWD) we have the following comments: Both the Colorado Division of Wildlife and the Wyoming Game and Fish Department provide information to hunters about CWD in a variety of ways, including press releases and interviews resulting in dissemination of information about CWD in local newspapers (some of which have been picked up and posted on-line by ProMED-mail); publication of information about CWD in agency magazines and newspapers; local radio spots and programs discussing CWD; production of a video about CWD which has been shown to hunters at expositions; posting information about CWD on the web sites of both agencies; providing information about CWD in hunting license application packets; individual letters to hunters providing information about CWD and how to get harvested animals tested; contacts with hunters that harvest CWD test positive animals; and publications in the scientific literature. The recommendations to deer and elk hunters in the CWD endemic area (limited to southeastern Wyoming and northeastern Colorado) are not dependent upon their recognizing sick animals (though hunters are clearly encouraged not to harvest animals sick animals -- whether they be in the CWD endemic area or not). Recommendations are based on prudence in the face of some uncertainty and avoiding contact with tissues containing the potentially infectious agent. The recommendations include wearing latex or rubber gloves when dressing harvested deer or elk and washing up afterwards; avoiding contact with brain and spinal cord; discarding the head, spine, spleen, and lymph nodes; and boning the meat when cutting and packaging the venison. A few additional comments. Chronic wasting disease is actually quite rare in free-ranging elk (<1 percent of hunter harvested animals surveyed); it is more common in deer. And although coyotes may well consume deer and elk in the CWD endemic area, wolves are still quite a long way away from southeastern Wyoming and northeastern Colorado. -- Beth Williams Department of Veterinary Sciences University of Wyoming Laramie, Wyoming <storm(a)uwyo.edu> Mike Miller Colorado Division of Wildlife Fort Collins, Colorado Tom Thorne Wyoming Game and Fish Department Cheyenne, Wyoming ......................mpp/pg/es *##########################################################* ProMED-mail makes every effort to verify the reports that are posted, but the accuracy and completeness of the information, and of any statements or opinions based thereon, are not guaranteed. The reader assumes all risks in using information posted or archived by ProMED-mail. ISID and its associated service providers shall not be held responsible for errors or omissions or held liable for any damages incurred as a result of use or reliance upon posted or archived material. ************************************************************ Visit ProMED-mail's web site at <http://www.promedmail.org>. Send all items for posting to: promed(a)promedmail.org (NOT to an individual moderator). If you do not give your full name and affiliation, it may not be posted. Send commands to subscribe/unsubscribe, get archives, help, etc. to: majordomo(a)promedmail.org. For assistance from a human being send mail to: owner-promed(a)promedmail.org. ############################################################ ############################################################ Reese

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Re: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
by Bill Stewart 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

At 03:42 PM 1/9/01 -0800, Xiao, Peter wrote: >I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small >footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of >protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it >within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for >alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking >about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly >smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography >(I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is >the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would >anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for. There's been a lot of work in the Smart Card community on fitting crypto into small memory space - I don't know if the "Independent Smart Card Developers' Organization" is still active - probable address - https://scard.org plus there are products from a number of smart card vendors. Dallas Semiconductor's i-button includes a crypto version. Certicom has the patents to many of the Elliptic Curve cryptosystem versions, and they've done a lot of work on products for small environments. ECC has an advantage over RSA and Diffie-Hellman public key methods because the key lengths are much shorter, typically 160-256 bits instead of 1024 or 512. On the other hand, the math is much more complex than the bignum modular multiply and exponentiation that RSA and DH use, so the code space would be larger. And 128 bytes may be large on a smartcard, but it's not that big on anything else. Is your space constraint RAM, or ROM/Flash code space? It's easy to fit the data space for most crypto algorithms into a few KB; the complexity is in the code space. Some of the data transfer formats wrap a lot of header and encoding around it, but some are simpler. Unfortunately, ASN.1 and PGP both put lots of complexity into data formats to squeeze out a few bits of space, so the code tends to be bloatware. If you're willing to do your own data formats, or use XDR, you can eliminate most of this. (Simple bignums, etc.) On the other hand, if you want full browser capability, you'll need to do real SSL, so you can't avoid them. Most of the crypto algorithms themselves are relatively small - RSA and Diffie-Hellman are each a few lines (plus a bignum handler). The RC4 symmetric-key algorithm is extremely small, and operates on 8-bit bytes rather than bignums or bit-twiddling, and the 128-bit versions are very secure as long as you follow a few simple rules about usage. DES is ugly, and the hash functions are ugly, but they're still not very large. The 2-lines-of-perl versions are horrendously ugly, http://www.cypherspace.org/~adam/rsa/ and drag in perl's hugeness, but most of the ugliness is because Perl doesn't have native bignums and because they were converting from decimal input instead of hex. The Lisp and Python equivalents are pretty clean and still small :-) Digital signatures themselves are generally more complex because you need to handle the name of the thing that's being signed, and any semantics that thing drags with it. For instance, are signatures fully general with N layers deep of key certification, or are you just going to handle signatures from a built-in key signing hashes of messages and code updates? (Or signatures from keys signed by a built-in key.) What you need for space depends a lot on your objectives and on how general you need to be. Sometimes you can get by with a few primitives to secure your communication to a central server and do the more complex stuff on the server. You're also going to have issues if you want to use the crypto for protecting television content :-), since that's typically a fast-moving target that changes almost as fast as the pirates figure out how to crack it. But even that crypto normally fits on smartcards. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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democracy for zoubin and the information committee
by bill payne 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

A. Zoubin I'm doing some research on internet. http://www.tncrimlaw.com/foia/II.html A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives.--James Madison \9\ THIS is why we are exchanging information. BEST bill -----Original Message----- From: Iran Daneshjoo Organization <iranstudents(a)hotmail.com> To: bpayne37(a)home.com <bpayne37(a)home.com> Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 5:52 PM Subject: Re: spy sting >Dear Friend, > >we saw some of these documents but we would like your commentary about what >happened and all circumstances so we can post it on our website but as well >as a report to the mailing lists. > >With thanks > >On behalf of SMCCDI > >A. Zoubin ( Information Committee) >www.iran-daneshjoo.org > >>From: bill payne <bpayne37(a)home.com> >>To: iranstudents(a)hotmail.com >>Subject: spy sting >>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:20:39 -0700 >> >>http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/buehlerpayne.html >> >>Better things to do than this rotten spy stuff >> >>best >>http://www.geocities.com/computersystemsdocumentation/ >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >

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Miraculous Weight Loss Almost Over Night..
by philbarlow＠linkusnow.net 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

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Full text to the book ``Underground'' released.
by Julian Assange 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

I very pleased to announce that thanks to Random House, Suelette Dreyfus and myself the complete and unabridged electronic text to our famed computer crime book ``Underground'' (approx 500 pp.) has been publically released. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | Format | Name | Size (bytes) | |---------------------------------------------------------| |---------------------------------------------------------| | Text | underground.txt | 979993 | |---------------------------------------------------------| |---------------------------------------------------------| | Text, ZIP | underground.zip | 357915 | |---------------------------------------------------------| |---------------------------------------------------------| | Text, GZIP | underground.txt.gz | 355953 | |---------------------------------------------------------| |---------------------------------------------------------| | Text, BZIP2 | underground.txt.bz2 | 265014 | |---------------------------------------------------------| |---------------------------------------------------------| | Palm Basic Doc | underground.pdb | 519140 | |---------------------------------------------------------| |---------------------------------------------------------| | Palm Teal Doc | underground-tealdoc.pdb | 520661 | +---------------------------------------------------------+ The Palm formated files will allow you to read the book on a Palm Pilot and various other handheld machines. See http://www.underground-book.com/download.php3 Feel free to forward this message. Julian. -- Julian Assange |If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood or assign them tasks and proff(a)iq.org |work, but rather teach them to long for the endless proff(a)gnu.ai.mit.edu |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery

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Important Membership Information
by announce＠inbox.nytimes.com 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

Dear cypherpunks2037, Welcome to NYTimes.com! We are delighted that you have decided to become a member of our community. As a member you now have complete access to the Web's premier source for news and information -- free of charge. This e-mail is part one of a special two-part welcome package that will help introduce you to NYTimes.com's services and features; you'll receive the second part in about two weeks. Beyond that, you won't receive any further introductory e-mails from us. NYTimes.com provides you not only with in-depth coverage of news events around the world but also with a wealth of additional features and services. The site is updated regularly throughout the day by New York Times reporters and editors to give you insight into events as they unfold. No matter what the hour, you can look to NYTimes.com for the most trustworthy coverage available and unique perspective you won't find anywhere else. Please feel free to explore other areas of NYTimes.com. Here are some starting points you may find useful: ** Get NYTimes.com headlines e-mailed directly to you. Choose from the day's top stories, breaking news alerts and your favorite sections: http://email.nytimes.com/email/email.jsp?welcome ** Search and retrieve articles from The New York Times Archives back to 1996. Searches and summaries of articles are free, but there is a small fee for full text. http://archives.nytimes.com/archives?welcome ** Explore the Help Wanted and other classified listings on the Web: http://www.nytimes.com/jobmarket/?welcome ** Get a free photo screensaver from The New York Times Photo Archives. Choose from Vintage New York, Americana, Coney Island and more: http://www.nytimes.com/partners/screensaver/index.html?welcome ** Search our archive of more than 50,000 book reviews, listen to author interviews or sign-up for an exclusive weekly newsletter from our Books Editor: http://www.nytimes.com/books/home?welcome ** Bookmark our Navigator guide for a regularly updated list of some of the most useful sites on the Web. When you're looking for information, Navigator, the home page of the newsroom of The New York Times, is a great starting point: http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/reference/cynavi.html?welcome Thank you again for becoming a member. We hope that you will make a point of visiting the site often. Sincerely, Rich Meislin, Editor in Chief New York Times Digital P.S. Your opinions are important to us. Share your thoughts about the site with us by sending an e-mail to feedback(a)nytimes.com ************************************************************* Your account information is listed below for future reference: Your Member ID is cypherpunks2037 You selected your password at registration. Your e-mail address is cypherpunks(a)ssz.com If you did not authorize this registration, someone has mistakenly registered using your e-mail address. We regret the inconvenience; please forward this e-mail to cancel(a)nytimes.com and write "cancel" in the subject line.

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Fwd: "The Ten Cannots"
by JFA 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== "The Ten Cannots" By William Boetchker (From a pamphlet, "Lincoln on Private Property," 1916) I. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. II. You cannot strengthen the weak by destroying the strong. III. You cannot help small men by tearing big men down. IV. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. V. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage payer. VI. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. VII. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. VIII. You cannot establish sound social security on borrowed money. IX. You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man's initiative and independence. X. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

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ZDNet UK News: Snooping code hits delays
by mikefreeman＠hushmail.com 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

This ZDNET UK News story has been forwarded to you by mikefreeman(a)hushmail.com who has added these comments: problems with RIP Snooping code hits delays Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:15:41 GMT Gareth Morgan, IT Week Draft document comes under fire for being too complex, delays ensue A definitive code on email monitoring may be pushed back until after Easter, as the Data Protection Commission (DPC) examines ways to simplify the draft document following a barrage of criticism from industry. David Smith, the deputy data protection commissioner, told IT Week the final version of the code of practice relating to employees' personal data could be split into separate sections to cover areas such as recruitment, monitoring and maintenance of records. "[The draft version] was not as clear as it might have been," said Smith, "so we are considering splitting the code into separate parts, but this will require additional time to produce." The changes could delay publication of the code - originally pencilled in for early spring - until after Easter. In the meantime, IT managers are being advised to continue to draw up and implement their own codes of conduct. Although industry is keen to have a code in place as soon as possible, businesses agree it must be unambiguous and easy to enforce. The draft version had been criticised by the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) for being too long and complicated. "Some parts of the code are clearly unworkable," said Rod Armitage, the head of legal affairs at the CBI. "It is vital that we get this code right." The CBI is also concerned that firms will not have the freedom to determine their own guidelines on monitoring their employees. Smith said he would meet the CBI and other interested parties over the coming weeks to discuss the proposed code, and was well aware of the importance being placed on the issue of monitoring. The bulk of the 70 responses to the consultation document which the DPC received had focused on the issue of monitoring. But the CBI is likely to be disappointed if it hopes the DPC will give firms greater freedom to monitor their employees. The draft proposals ruled that any monitoring of employee communications must be in proportion to the business benefits that an organisation could hope to achieve by it. Smith said although there were areas where changes could be made to the draft proposals, the 1998 Data Protection Act had to be adhered to: "The code of practice is our interpretation of the Data Protection Act." The issue of email monitoring has resurfaced recently, with the TUC describing incidents such as the sacking of ten workers at the Royal & SunAlliance insurance company for forwarding lewd emails around the office as out of proportion to the offence. A spokeswoman for the TUC confirmed that the organisation had been given special permission to provide feedback on the draft code a week after the deadline. However, she was unable to provide further comment. Take me to ZDNet Enterprise (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/specials/2000/10/enterprise/) They can see you... Read about how and why in Surveillance (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/specials/1999/09/surveillance/) a ZDNet News Special Have your say instantly, and see what others have said. Click on the TalkBack (http://forums.zdnet.co.uk/community/wwwthreads.cgi?forum=anchordesk#ZDNetNe…) button and go to the ZDNet News forum. Let the editors know what you think in the Mailroom (mailroomuk(a)zdnet.com) And read (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/mailroom.html) what others have said. If you found this ZDNN news report valuable, why not sign up for the free daily ZDNN News Alert - and we'll email you our top five headlines every day. http://www.zdnet.co.uk/misc/newsletters/news.html ZDNet News: The UK's best source for computing news - updated throughout the day. http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/ Please report any abuse of this service to ukwebmaster(a)zdnet.com

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New Scientist (UK): Hand Over Your Keys
by Matthew Gaylor 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

"The Home Secretary says these powers are necessary for catching drug dealers and paedophiles." Pubdate: Jan 13, 2001 Source: New Scientist (UK) Page: 51 Copyright: New Scientist, RBI Limited 2001 Contact: letters(a)newscientist.com Website: http://www.newscientist.com/ Author: Caspar Bowden HAND OVER YOUR KEYS Protecting privacy could soon be more difficult in Britain than anywhere in the world, warns Caspar Bowden. Internet users may end up with fewer civil rights than terrorists [a review of] "Crypto" by Steven Levy, Viking, $24.95, ISBN 0670859508 SINCE the Second World War, international communications have been hoovered up from undersea cables and microwave links, and increasingly from computer networks and mobile phones. Sorted and sanitised, they become the intelligence reports intended for the eyes only of government ministers. In Britain, the agency that performs this work is Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. It was here in 1969 that the mercurial scientist James Ellis invented "public key" cryptography, a revolutionary code that allows secret communication without sharing a secret key. As a direct consequence, Britain acquired a new law last year that compels the surrender of computer passwords, even by people not suspected of any crime. It means two years in jail if you refuse, and another five if you breach a secrecy order and complain publicly. The story of what's brought us to this extraordinary state of affairs is told in Crypto. Written from an American viewpoint, it relegates GCHQ to an appendix and begins instead with the independent rediscovery of public key cryptography in 1975 by Whitfield Diffie, a Stanford computer scientist. Ever since, Diffie has championed the public's right to use it to protect individual privacy. How is it possible to devise a code that does not require the sender's choice of key to be shared with the receiver of the message? The answer, realised by both Ellis and Diffie, is for the receiver to construct a kind of puzzle that the sender uses to scramble messages in a way that cannot be reversed unless you know the trick of the puzzle. GCHQ worked out the details (which involve enormous prime numbers) a few years before Diffie and others in the US. But it was the Americans who were granted patents on the underlying mathematics. These algorithms are now fundamental to Internet security and e-commerce. Before you enter a credit-card number on the Web, there should be a padlock in the corner of your browser to tell you that all transactions to the website are now scrambled. In that case, all the computers of the US National Security Agency (NSA) will not be able put the pieces back together again. Whitehall's confederacy of dunces simply did not know what to do with this invention. Not only did it let the American patents go unchallenged, it also kept the achievements of the GCHQ scientists an official secret until 1998. The US successfully prevented the proliferation of these techniques for more than a decade, using export controls, until a computer program called Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) found its way onto the Internet in 1991. Its author, Phil Zimmerman, was arrested for "munitions smuggling", and prolonged Kafkaesque investigations made him an Internet folk hero. Ironically, he was motivated by worries about computer networks becoming embedded in society, and the totalitarian consequences if these were systematically exploited for surveillance. Last year, Britain belatedly abandoned an Orwellian scheme for "key escrow", which would have meant the prior deposit of everyone's keys with government. But now it has the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIP) Act 2000. Any public authority can demand keys, and can even keep this a secret by using a gagging order "to protect investigative methods". The only redress will be through a complaints tribunal that can hear secret evidence which cannot be cross-examined. These powers are due to be activated in October 2001, when the next general election should be safely out of the way. The RIP Act can also require Internet service providers to install "black boxes" that relay Internet wiretaps direct to the MI5 building, home of the British security service. The Home Secretary says these powers are necessary for catching drug dealers and paedophiles. But this will leave every Internet user with fewer civil rights and safeguards than are now enjoyed by terrorist suspects or asylum seekers (and for this Home Secretary that is saying something). Even more staggeringly, a leaked submission from the police and intelligence agencies to the Home Office recently revealed that they aspire to a seven-year computerised archive logging all phone calls, e-mails and web browsing. When online, this amounts to surveillance of your stream of consciousness without a warrant. Crypto is a well-researched book. Its one flaw is its exclusively American perspective, which means that it overlooks the most repressive Internet legislation anywhere in the world: the RIP Act 2000. Caspar Bowden is director of the Foundation for Information Policy Research ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per month) Matthew Gaylor, 2175 Bayfield Drive, Columbus, OH 43229 (614) 313-5722 Archived at http://www.egroups.com/list/fa/ **************************************************************************

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