- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

RE: Making the Agora Vanish
by Greg Broiles 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

At 02:33 AM 4/16/2001 +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > >It is true that there is a vast amount of almost-demand on the parts of > >risk-averse people who don't want to act for fear of being wrong - but > >there are a lot of people who have figured out how to get things done > >without depending on "the stick" that is the law, and are doing so already. > >It is the latter group of people whose needs must be met for a > >transjurisdictional commerce system to be successful - the former group can > >come along when they're ready, or not at all. > >However, if the former group is large enough, as one suspects, it may well >repress any attempt to accommodate the needs of the latter. For instance, >legislative attacks on any widespread anonymity infrastructure are pretty >much a given when people, most of whom have precisely the kind of idealistic >conception of the legal system you describe, realize that law can't touch an >anonymous economy. Yes, the laws can be written, and they will enjoy the same efficiency and success that laws against copyright violation, pornography, prostitution, illicit drugs, and so forth have experienced. Not only can the law not touch an anonymous economy, it cannot prevent one, either. It's difficult for people in comfortable democratic countries to fully comprehend that activities like drug trafficking, pornography distribution, and adultery continue in places where punishment for those activities is likely to be summary public execution. Further tinkering with the Sentencing Guidelines, for example, might change the rate at which those things occur, but it will not eliminate them. At a macro policy level, we cannot choose a regulatory configuration where those activities never occur - humans have already experimented with incredibly scary sticks (like death and torture and extended unpleasant imprisonment) and found them inadequate to eliminate them. We will have to plan (to the extent that macro planning is considered important) on those activities continuing; and we should not abandon otherwise productive choices because they fail to achieve the impossible. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles(a)well.com "Organized crime is the price we pay for organization." -- Raymond Chandler

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by team＠adultfriendfinder.com 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

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Message from a Parallel Universe
by Tim May 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

Cypherpunks, I was twiddling the dials on my Hartle-Witten BraneNet, and I received this message from a parallel negative tension brane universe. Apparently there is a group similar to our own group in this world which is at this quasi-time debating "literary anarchy." Here's an excerpt: >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:53:24 -0700 >To: cypherbranes(a)lne.com >From: Aimless Fargone <clueless(a)lawyers.org> >Subject: Literary Anarchy >Cc: > > >I get what you guys are saying about how maybe individual readers of >books could decide for themselves like what books they could read. I >even hear your point of view that government regulation of >bookstores, writers, magazines, and libraries might be dispensed >with in some far-off utopian future. But, like, I don't understand >how it would work. How would people know what was the truth and what >was a lie. You guys talk about these mysterious "reputations," but >couldn't authors _lie_ about their reputations, couldn't publishers >deceived the gullible? And what's to keep an author from pretending >to be another author, or what's to keep him from copying the style >and ideas of another writer? How would people even know what was >important and what wasn't? And couldn't foreign intelligence agents >write stuff that was uncontrolled, contaminating our value >propositions? Really, punks, I'm just seeking a value proposition >for why it is that this idea of "literary anarchy" would work. ....

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HR.com's eBulletin for the Week of April 16, 2001
by weeklymag＠HRCAMPAIGNS.COM 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

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src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/eBulletinHeader_r1_c01.gif" width="634" height="64" border="0" align="top" ></td > <td ><img src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/shim.gif" width="1" height="64" border="0" name="undefined_2" ></td > </tr > <tr valign="top" > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007561003" ><img name="hometab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/hometab.gif" width="94" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td rowspan="2" ><img name="eBulletinHeader_r2_c02" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/eBulletinHeader_r2_c02.gif" width="11" height="50" border="0" ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007571003" ><img name="compBenTab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/compBenTab.gif" width="90" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007581003" ><img name="HRMgmtTab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/HRMgmtTab.gif" width="71" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007591003" ><img name="LaborRel" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/LaborRel.gif" width="74" height="25" border="0" align="top" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007601003" ><img name="LegalTab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/LegalTab.gif" width="56" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007611003" ><img name="ODTab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/ODTab.gif" width="55" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007621003" ><img name="StaffingTab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/StaffingTab.gif" width="65" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007631003" ><img name="HRIStab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/HRIStab.gif" width="49" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td ><a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007641003" ><img name="TrainingTab" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/TrainingTab.gif" width="65" height="25" border="0" ></a ></td > <td rowspan="2" ><img name="eBulletinHeader_r2_c11" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/eBulletinHeader_r2_c11.gif" width="8" height="50" border="0" ></td > <td ><img src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/shim.gif" width="1" height="25" border="0" name="undefined_2" ></td > </tr > <tr valign="top" > <td ><img name="eBulletinHeader_r3_c01" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/eBulletinHeader_r3_c01.gif" width="94" height="25" border="0" ></td > <td colspan="8" ><img name="eBulletinHeader_r3_c03" src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/eBulletinHeader_r3_c03.gif" width="525" height="25" border="0" ></td > <td ><img src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/shim.gif" width="1" height="25" border="0" name="undefined_2" ></td > </tr >   </table > </td > </tr > <tr > <td width="125" valign="top" > TABLE OF CONTENTS: -  <a href="#wisewords" >Wise words from...</a >    <a href="#wisewords" >Robert S. Kaplan</a > -  <a href="#articles" >Articles to help you</a > -  <a href="#potw" >Featured Product</a >    <a href="#potw" >of the Week</a > -  <a href="#communities" >HR.com</a >    <a href="#communities" >Communities</a > -  <a href="#reports" >Research Reports</a > HR.com eMarketplace offers you: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007661003" >Assessment Tools Applicant Tracking Payroll Solutions Relocation Tools B to B Solutions</a > <img src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/SendFriend_button.gif" border="0" width="135" height="30" > If you know someone who'd like to read this eBulletin, please forward it to them. Need an answer? <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007651003" >Click Here!</a > If you have a burning question and can't find the answer, send us an email to Ask HR.com to get FREE help/ suggestions on HR matters. <div align="left" > <img src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/Quote_button.gif" border="0" width="135" height="30" > <div align="left" > <div align="left" >"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week. " <div align="right" >~ General George S. Patton</div > </div > </div > <img src="http://www.hr.com/mailouts/eb/feb192001/Services_button.gif" border="0" width="135" height="30" > <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007661003" >eMarketplace</a > <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007671003" >Training Center</a > <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007651003" >Ask HR.com</a > </div > SPONSOR THIS eBULLETIN If you're a vendor who'd like to reach HR decision makers, email us at <a href="mailto:sales@hr.com" >sales(a)hr.com</a >. </td > <td width="5" >  </td > <td width="517" valign="top" > WELCOME TO HR.com's eBULLETIN FOR THE WEEK OF: April 16, 2001 We are your free online resource for HR. Our eBulletin gives you a taste of what's new on our site this week. <a name = "wisewords" >MORE WISE WORDS FROM...Robert S. Kaplan</a > "You don't have to put a dollar value on human capital to make it comparable to inventory or accounts receivable. However, you do want to quantify human capital; you do want to measure it in terms that are appropriate for what you are accomplishing with the HR function" <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012731003" >Robert S. Kaplan</a > is a professor of Accounting and Control at Harvard Business School, and his insights on linking strategy to HR are invaluable. I strongly recommend HR professionals pay attention to what Dr. Kaplan has to say. "Take a break, have a laugh, check out this week's <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012741003" >HR.comic</a >" <ul > <a name = "articles" >ARTICLES TO HELP YOU</a > <li >HR professionals need to develop high-level consulting skills. This week we begin a series of articles on <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012751003" >becoming a trusted advisor</a >. This articles are insightful, helpful and even inspiring. I hope you enjoy them.</li > <li >There are management lessons everywhere in life. Find out what Bob Delaney learned <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012761003" >on the way to the daycare</a > in this week's guest editorial.</li > <li >Are you a <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012771003" >graying boomer</a > with hard earned wisdom to share? If do David Creelman wants to know you. Read this week's editorial.</li > <li >Don't miss the week's <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012781003" >Biz Fiction</a > and your <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012791003" >Horoscope</a >.</li > </ul ><a name = "potw" >FEATURED PRODUCT OF THE WEEK</a > Discussing Your Development Plan Video Two new skills model videos will add important content and process to your mentoring orientations.<a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012801003" > "Discussing Your Development Plan"</a > models a protege involving both her mentor and manager in developing her action plan. In less than six minutes, this video shows the key steps in this important discussion. <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012801003" >"Negotiating Your Mentoring Agreement"</a > is the foundation for a successful mentoring experience. You will see a protégé and mentor negotiate the critical points in a mentoring agreement. New features @ HR.com We have more editorial, more content and more features. Effective April 1st our product reviews are getting more analytic and in-depth. In addition we are launching the following new features across our 8 communities: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007571003" >Featured Event </a > High level profiles of upcoming events that are of interest to HR Professionals. <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007581003" >Trends and Tidbits </a > "Need to Know" trends for the HR Professional including graphs, illustrations hints and facts that are updated weekly. <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007601003" >Featured Jobs</a > HR Careers: top jobs available in each community. <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007611003" >Featured Products </a > Leading edge products tested by HR.com researchers and recommended to use. <hr > <a name = "communities" >HR.com Communities</a > Comp + Ben This Week's Features:      <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007571003" > Business, People and Rewards: Surviving and Thriving in the New Economy (4) Executive Compensation Tactics for the Next Economy</a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012811003" >Online Benefits Provider (3/3)</a > The final article of the series discusses common problems and what your expectations should be with web-based applications. HR Management This Week's Features:     <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007581003" > Restructuring Can Present One of HR's Toughest Tasks: Layoffs Helping Dad have More Time at Home. </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012821003" >The FCRA and CRA's (3/3)</a > This article discusses the things you should know when you're choosing a CRA. Labor Relations This Week's Features:   <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007591003" > EEOC Guidance on the Handling of Retaliation What is Stress? </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012831003" >!Trak-It Grievance</a > As a stand-alone product or a part of !Trak-It HR, !Trak-It Grievance manages your grievance needs. Legal This Week's Features: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007601003" > Cybersnooping: Potential New Claims Leave Employers With Tough Choice High Tech Work Complicates FLSA Classification of Computer Employees </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012841003">IHR advisor</a> IHRadvisor helps company's manage their international assignment programs. OD This Week's Features:     <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007611003" > Rebuilding the Fire: From Burnout to Breakout The Career Couple Challenge. </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012851003" >Knowledge Pool</a > Read about Europe's leading e-Learning vendor and their new Career Development and Training application. Staffing This Week's Features: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007621003" > Technology Tactics for a Human Capital-Centric World Is it a Conversation or an Interview? </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012861003" >Fitability.com</a > Recruiting sales staff? Fitability can help you pick the best. HRIS This Week's Features:  <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007631003" > What you need to Know About HR In The New Economy- Do You Measure Up? Server Boxes are Shrinking to Blades </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012871003" >My HRIS Info.com</a > This new small business application helps keep track of your HR and benefits administration. Training This Week's Features:  <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007641003" > Off The Shelf Interactive Training: Are we Settling for Mediocracy? The Training Goldmine </a > Product Review: <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012881003" >Leadership Experience Series (Managing Stress)</a > Learn how managers and employers can help employees manage stress in the workplace. <hr > Service for HR.com Members <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012971003" >HR Career Center</a > - Connecting Careers for HR Professionals With over 135,000 members, one of the largest online memberships for HR Professionals, HR.com is launching a member job board. Whether you're looking for a job or looking at hiring someone in HR, the HR Career Center provides you with a one-stop resource for all your career needs. To post a job or begin your job search <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1012971003" >click here</a >. <a name = "reports" >HR.com Research: </a > <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007681003" >Web-Based Benefits Administration</a > ($25) is a hot topic. This study helps you understand why web-based benefits administration is so popular. Save yourself time and money by reading the latest research on Internet recruiting. <a href="http://www.hr.com/hrcom/clickthru/clickthru.cfm?linkid=1007701003" >HR.com's Definitive Guide to Internet Sourcing</a > ($650) reviews your online options for sourcing and tracking candidates and provides helpful suggestions on which sites to use in various situations. Unsubscribe If you do not want to receive our eBulletin, please reply to this email with "unsubscribe" in the subject line and be sure to indicate the email address you want removed, especially if your mail is consolidated at a mailbox other than the one to which we've addressed this HR.com eBulletin. (c) Copyright 2000, HR.com. All Rights Reserved. </td > </tr > </table > cypherpunks(a)CYBERPASS.NET 28409 </body > </html >

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Scientific American: Feature Article: Warp Drive Underwater: May 2001
by Jim Choate 17 Apr '01

17 Apr '01

http://www.sciam.com/2001/0501issue/0501ashley.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ The ultimate authority...resides in the people alone. James Madison The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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CER | Book review | Stanislaw Lem peers into the future
by Jim Choate 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

http://www.ce-review.org/01/13/books13_swirski.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ The ultimate authority...resides in the people alone. James Madison The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Slashdot | National Governments and the Internet?
by Jim Choate 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/01/04/16/161248.shtml -- ____________________________________________________________________ The ultimate authority...resides in the people alone. James Madison The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Cypherpunks, Feds, and Pudgyfaced Voyeurism
by Declan McCullagh 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

The cypherpunks list has become a popular tourist destination in the last two years for voyeuristic Feds in Washington and Oregon. This monitoring has been less cyber-stalking of the chargeable sort, and more a kind of spectator sport, something to chat about with fellow TIGTAians at the water cooler, and maybe launch some investigations every now and then. We all know that, from his own testimony, a pudgyfaced Jeff Gordon has become enraptured by the cypherpunks list. We know from exhibits that he subscribes to the list from apparently a Hotmail account, but the relevant headers were redacted so we don't know which one. We also know that Gordon & co infiltrated the common law court and Libertarian Party and monitored the "northwest libertarians" mailing list. Anyone attending the first Seattle-area cypherpunk meeting next week may want to check for Gordonian bodywires. The real surprise is not that investigator-stalkee Gordon has extended his arguably unethical pursuit of Bell and cypherpunks, but that other area Feds have joined the fun. For instance, Assistant U.S. Attorney Floyd Short teaches a course on cybercrime at the University of Washington law school on Thursdays, and has reportedly made the cypherpunks list a part of his class. Short has also spoken about the cypherpunks list and its relation to online lawlessness during at least two speeches, I'm told. The cypherpunks list, in other words, is a staple of law classes not because of participants' views about privacy -- but because of the number of their number who are now serving time. One assistant U.S. Marshal in charge of moving Jim Bell from the downstairs holding pen to the courtroom confessed to me yesterday that he's a cypherpunks fan. Not in the ending-the-nation-state-through-crypto sense, but he finds the list interesting enough to read on a daily basis through the inet-one archive site. He was puzzled about why it's been down; the speculation seems to be that it's related to cyberpass' problems. He told me he's been a list reader for about two years. Someone could make a tidy profit by compiling a complete cypherpunks archive and selling it to the Feds on CD-ROM for use in prosecutions. Note that if Bell had not posted under his real name to cypherpunks during his investigation of federal agents last year, he would not be facing perhaps five more years in prison. The government buttressed its case against Bell by using each message that could conceivably be relevant as structural support for its Good Society vs. Internet tale to the jury. Email to the cypherpunks list appears dozens of times in the government's pretrial list of exhibits. Assistant U.S. Attorney Robb London led the jury on a post-rich digression about plausible deniability that included posts from occasional participants like Michael Froomkin and Black Unicorn. London argued that Bell's investigation gave him plausible deniability for stalking. During closing arguments yesterday, London brought it up once more: "Let's talk about plausible deniability. It's a whole big part of what the cypherpunks are into." You'll recall that London and Gordon were involved in the prior prosecution of Carl Johnson, another cypherpunk regular. Perhaps the Feds are frustrated since during their obsessive-compulsive cyphersurveillance, they can only listen and not post in response to windy rants about the perils of big government. At least not under their real names. The Tacoma courtroom is a sterile place, kind of Singapore-meets-the-Bastille. Not helping the atmosphere is the half-dozen agents, some armed, who populated the audience benches during the Bell trial. In addition to two reporters, only one non-Fed observer showed up every day; she took notes and posted them to the cypherpunks list. When this unnamed 'punk introduced herself to Bell's parents after a week of being anonymous, all the Feds' heads swivelled to hear what her name was. Like the old-media types they are -- London says he's a former legal reporter for The New York Times -- the Feds hardly appreciated online reports from the trial by John Young and that anonymous local cypherpunk. London, whose courtroom demeanor veers between snide and surly, griped loudly during a recess last week about "glorified stenographers" taking up space in the courtroom. The six bodyguards offered up appropriate nasty glares. But Gordon seems to be the true antipunk. (London has indicated he didn't want to prosecute this case, and missed out on a more high-profile one because of it.) After the jury delivered their partial verdict, Gordon leaned over from his seat at counsel table and asked London to seal the court records. London dutifully requested that U.S. District Judge Jack Tanner seal any information or exhibit or transcript that included home addresses of alleged stalkees. Now, those data are arguably key to the government's case against Bell -- did he drive to this address or not? -- and were discussed at great length in open court. Tanner denied the motion, and Gordon wasn't happy. You can be sure that Tanner has learned all about the "TannerWatch" website, and is hardly amused by it. You can also bet that some unnamed agent will be watching who asks for copies of the court file -- they seem to fear that some local 'punk will try to obtain Bell's diary, which was introduced as evidence and seems to include not just inaccurate home address of government agents, but accurate ones as well. Watch for more investigations here -- apparently court information does not want to be free. Anyone know if that grand jury meeting in the Seattle federal courthouse is still in session? It would be interesting to find out why local papers didn't cover the trial, even after some residents repeatedly suggested they do so. The only other reporter there besides your humble correspondent was a Washington, DC correspondent one from 60 Minutes. Other reporters from local newspapers had covered unremarkable pre-trial hearings at great length, but failed to cover a fairly unusual trial. I'm told they didn't want to have to fight subpoenas. As a former journalist himself, London probably knew exactly how to handle them -- and avoid potentially unfavorable press coverage. Government prosecutors now appear to qualify as technical experts on the cypherpunk phenom, having scrutinized listmember behavior as ants under lenses. London told the jury yesterday that "the one unifying theme that defines someone as a cypherpunk on the Internet is the ability to encrypt mail." One could say the same thing about a NAI marketing flack, but that wouldn't be as quotable. It's all so sad and predictable and sad again. The cypherpunks list had its glory days: Wired magazine cover stories, blossoming technology, and, yes, even those damnable tentacles. Now it's become a convenient way for the Feds to land convictions. -Declan Washington, DC April 11, 2001 Background: http://www.cluebot.com/search.pl?topic=ap-politics http://www.mccullagh.org/subpoena/ This article is at: http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=01/04/11/238254

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Re: Making the Agora Vanish into Cyberspace
by mean-green＠hushmail.com 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

At 12:12 PM 4/12/01 -0700, you wrote: >I want to apply what I just wrote to the projects of some friends of ours: MojoNation and Zero Knowledge Systems. I say "friends" because long-term list members are either working for them, or founded them, or whatever. You all know what I mean. > >Caveat: I have not talked to principals at either company for a long time. I don't know what they're doing, or even if their companies still exist in the same form (same basic mission) as when I last talked to their principals. Consider these comments to be applicable to companies _like_ these companies. At 11:14 AM -0700 4/12/01, Tim May wrote: >>This makes Yahoo, Amazon, EBay the easy targets for lawsuits by foreign governments, lawsuits by PC groups in America, boycotts (which are OK, of course), and even direct actions against corporate officers. How long will it be before corporate offices at EBay are bombed because birth control stuff is sold on EBay? How long before the President of Amazon is assassinated one night for "allowing" books like "The Satanic Verses" be sold on his system? >> >>These three companies are representative of the trend toward a corporation, readily traceable to a physical location, acting as the "marketplace" location. Even more abstractly, Napster only distributed an _indexing_ application and then provided a forum for indices to be published. And yet what has happened with Napster is and was predictable. >> >>(If you set up a music pirating system, as seen by others, and paint your name and address on your back, you _will_ be sued. A bunch of us pointed this out at a CP physical meeting in early 2000, when Napster was just starting to become known.) >> >>There's a better solution to this "big targets problem": peer-to-peer, a la Gnutella, Mojo, etc. No identifiable nexus of corporate control. Online clearing. Reputation intermediaries. Digital cash (not strictly needed, if N (number of sellers and buyers) is large enough and there is no central clearinghouse which can be sued.) >> >>Making the agora disappear into cyberspace, whether by sheer numbers of sellers and buyers (peer-to-peer) or by robust encryption (a la BlackNet) is an important goal. >> >>"The Theory of the Corporation" needs revisiting. >> >>This is what is missing from the plans of so many of these "Cypherpunks- interesting" companies: they start developing some ideas of how to implement true untraceability, and doing commerce in uncoercible (transactions cannot be physically coerced) ways, then they BLOW IT: >> >>The blow it by incorporating in above-board ways, readily-traceable by any constable or narc or Fed who wants to find their corporate offices in Quebec or Mountain View or whatever village constitutes the capital of Anguilla. >> >>Which means none of these entities can exploit the truly rich markets out there. Markets for online porn of various kinds, markets for "specialty" interests, a free and open and unfettered market in Nazi memorabilia and other such newly-verboten items, and, the gold mine, markets in medical information, credit information, and other such data bases which governments seek to hold monopolies on. (Governments ain't stupid. Being the official Mafia, they know the value of regulating and controlling data bases.) >> >>For those of you who don't fully appreciate what I am getting at, being newcomers, let me move away from such banalities as "kiddie porn" market- -though this is a real market which any truly untraceable tools will facillitate, obviously--and focus instead on the "credit rating market." >> >>Alice defaulted on a loan to Bob some years ago. Do-gooders in the United States decided that Alice's "credit records" should be forced to "forget" this item after some period set by legislative decree. Charles, who was told by Bob by that Alice defaulted on a loan, is ordered by the government that he may not reveal this information to Darva, who is considering making a loan to Alice and is willing to pay Charles a fee for supplying her with what he knows of Alice's past habits regarding loans. >> >>This is, in a nutshell, the essence of the "Fair Credit Reporting Act." This is what laymen, who usually think it a good idea, mean when they say "Your credit records only go back 5 years." >> >>Cypherpunks know that the technologies exist to support bypasses of such contra-freedom laws. Usually called "data havens," though Bruce Sterling got it wrong (no insult meant to him) when he predicted in "Islands in the Net" that such data havens would be on Caribbean islands or in the jungles of Southeast Asia. Physical security is only the equivalent of a few dozen bits' worth of cryptographic security. (At the time "Islands in the Net" appeared, in 1988, I had already presented the "BlackNet" crypto scheme to my Silicon Valley friends Phil Salin, Marc Stiegler, Randy Farmer, Chip Morningstar, and a bunch of the Xanadu/AMiX folks. It did in cyberspace, a la Vinge's "True Names," what Sterling was simultaneously setting out in "Islands.") >> >>(As to the morality of such bypasses, why is the business of government or anyone else to tell Bob or Charles that it is illegal and punishable by fines and imprisonment to tell Darva that Alice cheated Bob at some time in the past? It isn't. >> >>OK, so the crypto tools really do exist to enable "free markets in cyberspace." So it this what Mojo and ZKS will do? Is this what Vince Cate in Anguilla is able to do? >> >>Why is Mojo not becoming the pirate music capital of cyberspace? 1. Because most music down-loaders (and many others with content to share) are lazy and Mojo requires them to take positive action to publish. 2. Because Mojo is sensitive to networks effects (when there are less than a hundred or so users on-line the reliability data retrieval quickly diminishes) and because of factor 1 there is less interesting data being shared. The members of this list with always-on connections could easily put Mojo right by running a client configured to offer most or all of Mojo's services (block server, content tracker, publishing tracker and relay server). This one small thing could provide the needed infrastructure to bootstrap. Come on guys, it can't be that painful to participate, can it? Look, I'm not loaded but if I can get a few dozen list members running the client (BTW, its small and easy to run, doesn't patch the OS, etc.) and stabilize the system, I'm willing to start converting Mojo currency out of my own pocket and pay those offering services. >>Why is ZKS not advertising its software to those interested in nude photos of youngsters? Why is Anguilla not the credit rating capital of the world/ >> >> >>Because each is readily locatable and targettable. These are at least part of the reasons. (I admit that other reasons may be "Because Jim is not interested in being the pirate music capital, because the shareholders of ZKS choose not be child pornographers, because Vince doesn't want to be the credit rating center of the world.") True, but he was/is interested in seeing the technology and the public Mojo service become generally useful. >>The important point is that even if any of these ventures _wanted_ to use their technologies as described above, THEY ARE TOO VISIBLE. >> >>Jim McCoy understands this quite well...and yet he located his operation in a visible way, which surprises me. Cost, priorities and a bit of laziness. But all is not lost. The public code includes almost all of the system and the parts which are missing I have on good assurance aren't that hard to reverse engineer. Free, encrypted, secure Web-based email at www.hushmail.com

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Pleading the 5th
by Anonymous 16 Apr '01

16 Apr '01

In light of recent "situations" involving cpunks and the courts, I've been thinking about the 5th Amendment. I pose two questions: If called to testify in a criminal case, and asked the question "Are you known by any other names" (or a derivative of that question), could one plead the fifth in order to prevent the disclosure of a pseudonym? If asked the question "have you ever communicated with [third party]", could one plead the fifth if that communication was made through a pseudonym, and tying that pseudonym to oneself could potentially be incriminating?

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