- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Meatspace,
by Faustine 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Jim wrote: >Ghandi. Womens Sufferage (US). Jim Crow Laws (US). Vietnam. Civil Rights >in the 60's. >The point being, there are plenty of historical precidence where this sort >of behaviour has led directly to the change desired by the protestors >against a much better armed and entrenched foe. It depends on which sort of behavior you mean--none of these causes believed in violence at all! Back in the day, anarchists used to assasinate people. What came of it? The Sacco and Vanzetti case. Here's an uncomforably familiar bit on that--just fill in new details and it's as contemporary as ever: "The arrest of Sacco and Vanzetti coincided with the period of the most intense political repression in American history, the "Red Scare" 1919-20. The police trap they had fallen into had been set for a comrade of theirs, suspected primarily because he was a foreign-born radical. While neither Sacco nor Vanzetti had any previous criminal record, they were long recognized by the authorities and their communities as anarchist militants who had been extensively involved in labor strikes, political agitation, and antiwar propaganda and who had had several serious confrontations with the law. They were also known to be dedicated supporters of Luigi Galleani's Italian-language journal Cronaca Sovversiva, the most influential anarchist journal in America, feared by the authorities for its militancy and its acceptance of revolutionary violence... During this period the government's acts of repression, often illegal, were met in turn by the anarchists' attempts to incite social revolution, and at times by retaliatory violence; the authorities and Cronaca were pitted against each other in a bitter social struggle just short of open warfare. A former editor of Cronaca was strongly suspected of having blown himself up during an attentat on Attorney General Palmer's home in Washington, D.C. on June 2, 1919, an act that led Congress to vote funds for anti-radical investigations and launch the career of J. Edgar Hoover as the director of the General Intelligence Division in the Department of Justice. The Sacco- Vanzetti case would become one of his first major responsibilities. In 1920, as the Italian anarchist movement was trying to regroup, Andrea Salsedo, a comrade of Sacco and Vanzetti, was detained and, while in custody of the Department of Justice, hurled to his death. On the night of their arrest, authorities found in Sacco's pocket a draft of a handbill for an anarchist meeting that featured Vanzetti as the main speaker. In this treacherous atmosphere, when initial questioning by the police focused on their radical activities and not on the specifics of the Braintree crime, the two men lied in response. These falsehoods created a "consciousness of guilt" in the minds of the authorities, but the implications of that phrase soon became a central issue in the Sacco-Vanzetti case: Did the lies of the two men signify criminal involvement in the Braintree murder and robbery, as the authorities claimed, or did they signify an understandable attempt to conceal their radicalism and protect their friends during a time of national hysteria concerning foreign-born radicals, as their supporters were to claim?" Ouch. There's a real lesson there! Besides, I think a lot of the success of the symbolic protests you mentioned were actually a logical result of what was going on behind the scenes--sure, they protests functioned as a PR-strategic push, but without very intelligent and dedicated people interfacing with the power structure, nothing ever would have happened at all. You remember the people who conceptualized, organized and signed the treaty, not the ones who threw the bombs. Elizabeth Cady Stanton didn't *need* the Pankhursts, if you get my drift. >Highly heirarchial defence mechanisms, such as you tout as invincible, >work just fine when faced with that sort of competition. When faced with a >more distributed and idealistic confrontation they eventualy fail. Maybe, but keep in mind asymmetry and idealism don't always go together. Also, define "idealistic". For instance, Mao appealed to the idealism of his followers, but his tactics were as hardcore as they come. And what happens when a repressive state starts to adopt asymmetric strategies to overcome asymmetric threats? That's the way it's moving, slowly but surely... >The question is not one of tactics, but of spirits. Hm. I still think you need both. >Sun-Tzu should be added to your summer reading list. Yep, it's certainly worth another look. Meanwhile here's a relevant quote of his I do remember: "The worst policy is to attack cities. Attack cities only when there is no alternative." So there you have it... ;) ~Faustine.

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Re: Meatspace,
by Faustine 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

somebody behind a remailer wrote: >And IMHO the best way to achieve anonymity in meatspace? A great place to >start would be by not deliberately engaging in "possibly illegal operations >on the street in an environment full of police". You're doomed before you >ever get started. But I could be wrong. Don't say I didn't tell you so. > Bitch, you really are a pig, aren't you? Oh, don't protest, don't >be an activist, that's much too dangerous, you don't stand a chance >they'll get you, blah, blah, blah. Just a little Tokyo Rose for the >cyberage. Nonsense, that's not what I said at all. I raised some serious issues--and all ad-hominem attacks aside, here are a few more for anyone who feels up for it: Can you see a fundamental difference between activism/protest/resistance that makes a difference and "illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police"? What's the point of putting yourself into a situation where you have no chance of accomplishing anything besides getting arrested(or killed)and making some sort of symbolic statement--that doesn't fundamentally affect a single soul beyond whoever gets their property damaged? Why does pointing out the myriad ways it's possible for unarmed people to get swatted like flies by provoking people with superior gear and training automatically mean one in any way identifies with the swatters? Do you really think being an idealist should preclude you from reasoning like a realist? Who's more likely to make a difference at the WTO: a) someone outside, throwing golf balls at the building b) someone inside, presenting compelling arguments to the assembly and individual delegates Can't you think of a better way to use your skills and talents than "fucking shit up" and getting arrested? Can't you even think of a better way to get across your message? I can, lots of people here can. But then, it could just be you're trying to troll me from behing that anonymous remailer of yours. agent provocateur (azhang provocater): "an agent employed to induce or incite a suspected person or group to commit an incriminating act." If you're not one, it's better than even money that you didn't know that the idea of the agent provocateur was invented by Czarist Russia over 100 years ago to stir the Serbs in the Balkans to a rebellion against the Turks, which Russia could use as a pretext to declare war. But its use was most prominent in combating the Socialists during the Russian Revolution of 1905. The Czars targeted young students for the operation of the "agents provocateurs" because students were deemed more impressionable and emotional. At one point 20 percent of all young Russian students were reported to be paid undercover agents who were to organize anti-government demonstrations and then lead the demonstrators straight into the fire of the Czarist police. Think about it. Given that, if you can't even keep a cool head posting to a message board, then you really ARE doomed. ~Faustine.

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Condit cracks
by George＠Orwellian.Org 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Heh-heh-heh. Condit has admitted to fucking Levy again and again to the DC police and the FBI. But that she was missing taking only her keys makes it seem like someone in her building killed her.

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Descubra el futuro de la publicidad hoy...
by cypherpunks＠toad.com 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

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RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
by Sandy Sandfort 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Peter Trei wrote: > Expatriate US citizens have to pay > income tax on foreign earned income > to the US...If you don't pay up, > they might not be able to extradite > you if you're now a foreigner, but > they'll go after your assets in the > US, or arrest you if you set foot > on US soil. > > (13 years as an expatriate leads to > some specialized knowledge :-) Maybe, but you got part of that wrong. (a) For expatiate US persons, the first $78,000 (or there about; they keep upping the amount) of income is exempt. (b) If you file, but do not pay, they can grab US assets, but they cannot extradite you nor arrest you if you come back, because no crime has been committed. Failure to file is a crime; failure to pay is a civil matter. S a n d y

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by meganrenner22＠yahoo.com 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

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Crypto hardware (fwd)
by Jim Choate 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Please reply to Mr. Crispin. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:28:08 -0700 From: Kent Crispin <kent(a)songbird.com> To: cryptography(a)wasabisystems.com Subject: Crypto hardware A couple of years ago at the RSA conference one of the vendors was exhibiting a tamperproof that would keep a secret key and perform encryptions/signatures using the key. Since the key never left the box, in theory security reduced to physical security around the box. The intended use of the box was as a master for a CA. I thought the vendor was GTE, but I didn't find anything definitive on their site. Does this description trigger any recollection? Are there similar devices on the market from other sources? -- Kent Crispin "Be good, and you will be kent(a)songbird.com lonesome." -- Mark Twain --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com -- ____________________________________________________________________ Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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(Seattle Physical Meet) BOUNCE cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com: Header field too long (>1024) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:49:49 -0500 From: owner-cypherpunks(a)ssz.com To: owner-cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com: Header field too long (>1024) >From owner-cypherpunks(a)ssz.com Tue Jul 10 17:49:46 2001 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01125 for cypherpunks(a)ssz.com; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:49:46 -0500 Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [216.34.245.2]) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01103 for <cpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:48:50 -0500 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06816; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rigel.cyberpass.net (cyberpass.net [216.34.245.6]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06790 for <cpunks(a)sirius.infonex.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by rigel.cyberpass.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6B1W2109043 for <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:32:02 -0700 Received: from codehead (user-uini6pg.dsl.mindspring.com [165.121.27.48]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12840; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107102238.SAA12840(a)blount.mail.mindspring.net> From: seacypherpunks(a)ix.netcom.com To: 0belisk(a)www.alaskashops.net, albert(a)achtung.com, firegirl(a)drizzle.com, Bill(a)Healy.net, BitGeek <bitgeek(a)mac.com>, blanc(a)cnw.com, Brian Brewer <brian.brewer(a)alstom.esca.com>, Bunnybait <tjcjr(a)attorney.com>, carolmiller(a)alt.net, ccaputo(a)alt.net, codehead(a)ix.netcom.com, Computer Cryptology <turing(a)eskimo.com>, Cypherpunks <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net>, torin(a)daft.com, Dennis Glatting <dennis.glatting(a)software-munitions.com>, dickl(a)eskimo.com, libertydon43(a)aol.com, "E. Shaun Russell" <e_shaun(a)extropy.org>, Ethan Ackerman <eackerma(a)u.washington.edu>, gary(a)wlfnet.org, grs(a)binary.com, jack(a)netgate.net, jam(a)afn.org, jevans(a)solutionsIQ.com, cismic(a)msn.com, kgriff(a)swva.net, King County LP <kclp(a)yahoogroups.com>, larry(a)privacyteam.com, donriggs(a)centurytel.net, Leonard Janke <leonard(a)votehere.net>, LPSeattle <lpseattle(a)yahoogroups.com>, "Marc V. Ridenour" <mvridenour(a)cybertrails.com>, allyn(a)well.com, mra(a)pobox.com, Matt Thomlinson <mattt(a)microsoft.com>, freematt(a)coil.com, meetingpunks-planners(a)cryptorights.org, Metalhead <metal(a)magellan.cloudnet.com>, wolf(a)priori.net, Michael Hamilton <michael(a)afreecountry.com>, mcw(a)v6tech.net, mpd(a)cyberspace.org, pablos(a)shmoo.com, hades(a)elsewhere.org, rick.gallegos(a)gte.net, rodney(a)tillerman.to, Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)mindspring.com>, Steve Phillips <stevephillips(a)hotmail.com>, tda(a)noc.santacruz.org, tboyle(a)rosehill.net, vince(a)weg.net, weidai(a)eskimo.com, William Sheehan <WSheehan(a)billsheehan.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:34:42 -0700 X-Distribution: Moderate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Seattle Cypherpunks, July 14, 2001, Bellevue, WA Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Seattle Cypherpunks July 2001 Physical Meeting Announcement General Info: DATE: Saturday 14 July 2001 TIME: 1 - 5 PM (Pacific Time) LOCATION: Bellevue Public Library, 1111 110th Avenue NE, Bellevue, Meeting Room 4 Agenda "Our agenda is a widely-held secret." As usual, this is an Open Meeting on US Soil, and everyone's invited. The meeting typically is followed by dinner at a nearby restaurant. PRESENTATIONS Robert Leen -- Defense Counsel for James Dalton Bell Mr. Leen served as the court-appointed defense attorney in the recent federal trial of Jim Bell, who was charged in the most recent case with harassment of federal agents. Jim was a former subscriber and occasional contributor to the main cypherpunks list and was somewhat known in libertarian circles in southern Washington State. It's well known that the way that the federal courts are set up is biased toward prosecutors, but Robert Leen faced considerably higher barriers than normal in his defense of Jim Bell. This case gave a glimpse of what happens when cypherpunk philosophies come in contact with government, and has several enlightening lessons in prosecutorial tactics. Robert Leen will discuss the case in general and then will address specific questions from the audience. DIRECTIONS The Bellevue Library is immediately north of downtown Bellevue. Take the "8th St N" exit from 405 and head toward downtown. Turn right at 110th Ave. After approximately 3 blocks, look for the Bellevue Public Library on the left.

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Your Membership Exchange
by 'Your Membership' Editor 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

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freq meter vs. spectrum analyzer for sweeping
by Dynamite Bob 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Some Melon wrote: > We borrowed a frequency meter, and went around the house with it, but are unsure how to use it effectively. It doesn't have a signal strength meter, so I'm thinking that if a bug is broad- casting the meter should just stick on that frequency?< You mean frequency counter. It counts the Hertz of the local strongest signal. You need a spectrum analyzer, which shows you signal strength vs. frequency. And you need to worry about intermittent ('burst') bugs. And WTF is an 'infinity' transmitter?

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