- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Gotti, evidence, case law, remailer practices, civil cases, civilit
by Steve Mynott 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Lucky Green <shamrock(a)cypherpunks.to> writes: > There are Cypherpunks without a Westlaw or LEXIS login? The mind boggles... Ones outside the USA who aren't (or rather shouldn't be) subject to American law? -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve(a)tightrope.demon.co.uk only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and i'm not sure about the former. --albert einstein

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Re: Gotti, evidence, case law, remailer practices, civil cases, civilit
by Anonymous 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Black Unicorn wrote: >> Your complaints about "free research" suggest that you have the sense >> that you are more valuable than or superior to other contributors. > >I think that's quite a reach on your part if you are pointing it out >generally. I don't think so. Other people don't think so. Please don't be unhappy, I'm actually trying to be helpful. I've enjoyed reading your work. Specifically, your work on spoliation has affected my thinking, and probably that of others. Sometimes it's a little hard to tell that one is having an effect. Often a really good post elicits minimal response because there's not much more to be said. And thousands of readers of this list never post at all. However, you have made a variety of remarks which could be seen, not too unreasonably, as being just a little bit condescending. If you are feeling that people are behaving inappropriately towards you, it might be worth considering if you might be unintentionally conveying this impression. >If you mean with specific reference to legal points regarding the >production of documents and such- very much the focus of my early >legal career- then I would submit to you that I would have to be >awfully stupid _not_ to have more experience and expertise in these >matters than anyone who had not spent the amount of time I had in the >field. No, what I am specifically addressing is complaints of having done some research and "jocular" requests for money. Other people who have experience and have done research have not made these requests. (Okay, some have, but they warrant the same response.) >I am more than happy to volunteer my expertise, and my research time, >to try to focus discussions (or confuse discussions depending on your >view) with respect to legal matters that impact system design. Good! As I've said earlier, I find these posts useful. >I, after all, don't demand cites from C++ manuals, or physics texts >when a fairly recognized expert in those fields posts on those topics >here. It wouldn't be unreasonable to do so. This isn't just an engineering thing, academia functions the same way. People want to know the chain of evidence. This is healthy. I don't especially believe in trusting "recognized experts" because so many of them are simply "recognized." In your case, nobody even knows your name, so is it all that unreasonable to ask for a citation? (Perhaps you didn't enjoy being insulted, but that's part of the deal if you trifle with the Lion of Aptos. ;-) >> It's a free world, but it might work better >> not to insult people, even if the insult is slightly veiled. > >I think if you review the posts on this topic over the last few days >you might find that I've been perhaps the most civil of the authors, >even in the face of some pretty caustic replies. Is this really all that civil? : >> (Your spoliation posts have been interesting. Thank you for writing >> them.) > >Oh, you read them? That will be $750.00 please. To me, this is condescending and that is unwarranted. If you feel that you are slumming it, it's a good idea not to let on to the slummees.

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Re: DOJ jails reporter, Ashcroft allows more journalist subpoenas
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Declan, The larger problem notwithstanding there's at least one little bit of language in this piece that is odd : "He said the government is seeking all of Leggett's material, including all originals and copies." Even if we make the extreme assumption that there is some pressing and justifiable need for federal prosecutors to have access to her materials how do you explain the need to possess "all originals and copies?" It doesn't make sense. Why should she not be allowed to keep a copy of her work? How does the existence of an uncontrolled copy lower the value of the original in the case of a recording? Or in the case of her own notes why would a copy not suffice. Looks like a reporter ( or anyone else for that matter ) should keep well hidden backups of their notes and work so that they can comply with Napolean complexes, fishing expeditions and spin control operations and not lose their life's work. Mike

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RE: Spoliation cites
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Decent thread. I still think there is plenty of opportunity for the laws of mathematics to make other laws moot but this is interesting. I have a few, hopefully not useless or inflammatory, comments. 1) The piece of useful information most easily extracted from this thread is that the best defense is that the "evidence" never existed and the device lacks the capability of creating it. Is it possible that the courts could decide that using or designing a device lacking logging features or that compiling a device from source with logging capabilities but with those capabilities selectively disabled is in itself an act of spoliation? These are acts done without any specific knowledge of people, places, things or events likely to be of interest to a court. General knowledge of the effects of designing, compiling or using such a device might be shown. 1a) Isn't there a PA statute prohibiting altering the headers on a communication? 1b) Could a remailer be declared to be a common carrier and subject to CALEA? 1c) Could a remailer operator be compelled to add or enable logging features without notifying users? 2) Most of the cites seem to describe cases involving corporations. Is it reasonable to think that while in theory corporations and individuals could be treated identically that in practice there are more documentation requirements on the part of a corporation, especially in the case of one that produces a product that is sold to the public? Would the expectations be different for individuals not engaged in commercial activities? > I suspect it can only get worse as we start to get more electronic evidence > cases, particularly in IP law- since the criminal sides of that are starting > to show up in civil based actions (much like anti-trust in the 80s-90s). > Everyone is a prosecutor who can afford to be one. > > Great. > 3) The same technology that is providing all this super eavesdropping and logging capability is also making it easier to fabricate or plant evidence. Electronic evidence may seem wonderful to a prosecutor but aren't we going to have to deal with its vulnerability at some point? Maybe only after someone with deep pockets gets hurt. Mike

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Base de Datos - 1.000 Empresas
by Empresas 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

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by hotbizop＠InfoGeneratorPRO.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

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UPI News Article: Tampa City Council votes to keep cameras
by Jim Choate 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=208325 The 4th now only applies to private property in Fla. apparently... -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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NSA's new mode of operation broken in less than 24 hours (fwd)
by Jim Choate 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:40:32 -0300 From: "Paulo S. L. M. Barreto" <paulo.barreto(a)terra.com.br> To: coderpunks(a)toad.com Subject: NSA's new mode of operation broken in less than 24 hours NSA has recently convinced NIST to include a new algorithm - something they dubbed "Double Counter" mode after 18 months of development - for consideration as a possible standard mode of operation for the AES. It's described at <http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/modes/proposedmodes/>, but I wouldn't bother reading it now had I not done it already. The new mode seems to have been reduced to bits by Phillip Rogaway, David Wagner and others. Could it be that the NSA is losing its proverbial cryptologic skills? For one can't help but conclude that, if they acted in good faith to provide a useful mode, then they did a very poor job, and if they acted otherwise, then they quite underestimate current public knowledge in the area. Paulo Barreto. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Check This Out !!!!!!!!!
by cacher69＠hotmail.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

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OPT: I, Cringely | The Pulpit - The Death of TCP/IP
by Jim Choate 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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