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09 Jun '02

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09 Jun '02

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Re: PKI: Only Mostly Dead
by pgut001＠cs.auckland.ac.nz 09 Jun '02

09 Jun '02

>Peter Gutmann should be declared an international resource. Thankyou Nobody. You should have found the e-gold in your acount by now :-). >Only one little thing mars this picture. PKI IS A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS WHICH IS >USED EVERY DAY BY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Of course this is in reference to the >use of public key certificates to secure ecommerce web sites. Every one of >those https connections is secured by an X.509 certificate infrastructure. >That's PKI. "Opinion is divided on the subject" -- Captain Rum, Blackadder, "Potato". The use with SSL is what Anne|Lynn Wheeler refer to as "certificate manufacturing" (marvellous term). You send the CA (and lets face it, that's going to be Verisign) your name and credit card number, and get back a cert. It's just an expensive way of doing authenticated DNS lookups with a ttl of one year. Plenty of PK, precious little I. >The truth is that we are surrounded by globally unique identifiers and we use >them every day. URLs, email addresses, DNS host names, Freenet selection >keys, ICQ numbers, MojoIDs, all of these are globally unique! >"pgut001(a)cs.auckland.ac.nz" is a globally unique name; you can use that >address from anywhere in the world and it will get to the same mailbox. You can play with semantics here and claim the exact opposite. All of the cases you've cited are actually examples of global distinguisher + locally unique name. For example the value 1234567890 taken in isolation could be anything from my ICQ number to my shoe size in kilo-angstroms, but if you view it as the pair { <ICQ domain>, <locally unique number> } then it makes sense (disclaimer: I have no idea whether that's either a valid ICQ number or my shoe size in kilo-angstroms). (This is very much a philosophical issue. Someone on ietf-pkix a year or two back tried to claim that X.500 DNs must be a Good Thing because RFC 822 email address and DNS names and whatnot are hierarchical like DNs and therefore can't be bad. I would suspect that most people view them as just dumb text strings rather than a hierarchically structured set of attributes like a DN. The debate sort of fizzled out when no-one could agree on a particular view). I think the unified view is that what you need for a cert is a global distinguisher and a locally meaningful name, rather than some complex hierarchical thing which tries to be universally meaningful. Frequently the distinguisher is implied (eg with DNS names, email addresses, "for use within XYZ Copy only", etc), and the definition of "local" really means "local to the domain specified in the global distinguisher". I'm not sure whether I can easily fit all that into the paper without getting too philosophical - it was really meant as a guide for users of PKI technology. Peter.

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09 Jun '02

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RE: PGP and Speak Freely (fwd)
by Major Variola (ret) 08 Jun '02

08 Jun '02

[stuff y'all knew but for the record] Basically the authors of the below post find that Speak Freely's reliance on out-of-band symmetric key exchange is solved with PGP email. PGPfone does this for you over the same channel --using the mathemiracle of public-key crypto. Since you're both necessarily online, it can and does use Diffie-Hellman instead of RSA. It does not save the negotiated key pair so if no endpoint is taping, the conversation is lost to the wind. Speak Freely is a nice piece of work, however compared to PGPfone it 1. requires OOB key exchange 2. isn't supported on Macs FWIW. I don't recall if SF works both ways, but PGPfone supports both IP and direct modem to modem links. (Just for completeness, anyone researching the field should evaluate Nautilus too.) At 12:25 PM 6/8/02 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: >Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 03:42:12 -0500 >From: "Benjamin T. Moore, Jr." <btmoore(a)iname.com> >To: ed(a)kapitein.net, speak-freely(a)fourmilab.ch >Subject: RE: PGP and Speak Freely > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Ok, let me see if I can maybe clarify what the issue is... Speak Freely >offers the ability to encrypt your voice conversations in real time. If you >have the "Crypto capable" version, when you've made a connection to >someone, you both can enter an agreed upon key and your conversation will >be secure from that point forward. This of course creates several problems. >If someone is listening in, monitoring your conversation/traffic or packet >sniffing, if for instance, you were to say in the conversation, lets use >the word "monkey" for an IDEA key and you both typed in the word "monkey," >your conversation would be encrypted using "monkey" as an IDEA key. The >problem of course is, if someone is monitoring your conversation, they'd of >heard you agree upon a key and they'd simply enter in the same key and >continue to monitor. > >Thus, you need a method of securely exchanging either an agreed upon key or >a generated key - Speak Freely will generate keys that you may copy and >paste into any of the various windows for the various encryption >algorithms. PGP, Pretty Good Privacy, is one damn good method of securely >exchanging those keys. You may of course e-mail the key in an encrypted >e-mail or file to the intended recipients or you could even send the >encrypted file using several of the Instant Messaging Clients with a file >transfer protocol. These methods will certainly work very well. However, >take this example which happened to me just last evening. A friend and I >were needing to set up a secure conversation. After we couldn't get Speak >Freely to handle the key exchange, we decided to e-mail the key in a PGP >encrypted e-mail. Trouble was, the mail server was down on his ISP. He >could neither receive or send mail. If he hadn't had an auxiliary web-based >e-mail account, things might have been more complex than they were. > >If Speak Freely were functioning correctly... let me amend that, IF we KNEW >how to make Speak Freely handle the key exchange as described in the help >file... It would have been a simple matter for us to allow Speak Freely to >handle the key exchange. What is supposed to happen is... in the >"connection" tab, you should be able to type the key identifier for the >person(s), Speak Freely will then launch PGP - which it does - encrypt the >generated key and transmit it to the intended recipients. This would >automate secure communications.

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