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Details on lne.com's blocking of Cypherpunks posts??
by Tim May 28 Oct '02

28 Oct '02

On Sunday, October 27, 2002, at 01:04 PM, Bill Stewart wrote: > [Hmm. lne.com spam-blocked me on the first attempt. Can you provide details? If lne.com is blocking posts, I will have to find another CP node. --Tim May

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[silk] I Went Down to the Demonstration... (fwd)
by Eugen Leitl 28 Oct '02

28 Oct '02

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:28:12 +0530 From: Udhay Shankar N <udhay(a)pobox.com> To: silklist(a)lists.vipul.net Subject: [silk] I Went Down to the Demonstration... From John Perry Barlow. Interesting. Udhay >---------------------->> -------------------->>>> ------> > >100, 000 March in San Francisco. Media Fail to Notice. > >So I went down to the demonstration yesterday. Instead of getting my fair >share of abuse - the San Francisco police were as non-confrontational as >Muppits - I was ignored. Along with anywhere from 50,000 to 150,000 other >people. > >In spite of its being largest and most demographically diverse >demonstration I've seen in a long career of dissent, the closest the Bay >Area peace march came to being a national event was a mention on page 8 of >the New York Times that thousands had also gathered in San Francisco. > >Perhaps if it had turned violent... But probably not. As I said in my last >blast, the best way to neutralize us is to pretend that we don't exist. >The puzzling question to me is, why are the media going along with George >II on this. What the hell is in it for them? > >I mean, we know that the war sells papers. William Randolph Hearst, a >pioneer in this regard, told his photographer in Cuba - where the >battleship Maine had just exploded, providing the excuse for the >Spanish-American War - "You get the pictures. I'll get the war." > >But if all you're trying to do is to get and keep public attention, any >popular fracas will suffice. I am certain that a lot of people bought the >paper today to find out about yesterday's demonstrations. Why couldn't >such a modest desire find its gratification? It's weird. I can think of no >mechanism by which the White House could directly muzzle the press without >someone getting the word out over the Internet. But something is making >the media act as if opposition to this war is no big deal. > >But from where I was marching, it looked like a big deal, and not simply >because everything I'm involved with looks like a big deal to me. This was >huge. Let me tell you a little about it, since apparently no one else is >going to. > >I've been on the road with Mountain Girl Garcia. We have been staying at >her daughter Trixie's Julia Morgan house in Oakland and decided to take >BART across the Bay rather than experience the agony of looking for a >parking place in a city that doesn't have parking places even when nothing >unusual is going on in town. When we got to the north Oakland BART >station around 11:00, there was already a line for the ticket machines >that snaked half an hour out into the parking lot. The train, when we >finally got on it, was breathing room only. There was a line to get out of >the station at the Embarcadero. > >I'm not keen on being in line, but these experiences were not at all >unpleasant. There was a lovely energy among the protesters, who seemed to >be of all social sorts. It was not just the usual suspects. There were >children, old people, men in suits, as well as people who will never wear >a suit. A lot of tweedy academic types. Not so many with darker skins, I >regret to say, but some. The only truly common element seemed to be a >pleasant civilization. > >And there were one hell of a lot of us. > >When we finally got up to Market Street around noon, the march had already >launched toward the Civic Center. Market was dense with humanity as far as >I could see in that direction. We counted several different cross-sections >of the moving populace, and the parade seemed to be about 20 people >across. Assuming that each phalanx of 20 moved though per second, this >would be about 72,000 people per hour. The march continued unabated for at >least 2 and a half hours. If our calculations are even a little accurate, >this would be over a hundred fifty thousand people who had gathered to >protest a war that has barely begun. > >I remember the first anti-war protest I ever attended. It was in the fall >of 1965 and it took place on Boston Commons. I'd be surprised if there >were more than a hundred people there, though they included, as I recall, >Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. It was not until after Kent State, five >years later, that I saw anything like the assembly of protestors I >witnessed yesterday. > >Furthermore, on that occasion, in May of '70, it seemed that just about >everyone filling the Mall in DC looked pretty much like me. We were not >The People. Not to say that scruffy, dope-smoking kids weren't well >represented in yesterday's march. But they were certainly not the >majority, even if you counted the scruffy, dope-smoking seniors like me. >Mostly the marchers seemed like Just Plain Folks. > >There were some great signs. Like "Impeach the Uber-Goober." Or "No >Weapons of Mass Distraction." Or "If Tim McVeigh caused 911, would we bomb >Michigan?" Or "Chez Panisse for Peace." Or "Stop The Bushit!" Or "Stay >Glued to the TV, You Hysterical, Brainwashed Fool!" One showed a concerned >looking whale with a thought balloon that said, "Save the Humans." > >It seems important to me that this many Just Plain Folks could come to >together on such short notice. It seems important that so many could >gather in indignation without any violent or rude behavior. It seems >important to me. > >But it's not important to the media. Why? > > >------------------------------------------------>>>> -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

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Re: FC: Privacy villain of the week: DARPA's gait surveillance tech (fwd)
by Eugen Leitl 28 Oct '02

28 Oct '02

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > Oddly enough, your behavior on the net, even the behavior of a given > signature in cypherspace, is biometric, as well. If my traffic is remixed the signature is not linkable to a point of origin. The signature emitted is not rich, and can be scrambled in principle.

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Re: False statement: "Since cypherpunks no longer code"
by Eugen Leitl 28 Oct '02

28 Oct '02

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Tim May wrote: > (I have no idea why Extropy and Transhumantech are being copied on this > message (<transhumantech(a)yahoogroups.com>, extropy > <extropians(a)extropy.org>). Since I know they will bounce my reply, as I > am not subscribed to their lists, I will delete them from the > distribution.) Your reply has been forwarded fully. > This is a false statement. A cheap shot, in fact. I will stack the code > written by attendees of the recent CP meetings against your code, > Eugene, any day. (No offense, Eugene, but I despise these > "fashionable" cheap shots which miss the mark so...cheaply.) I was basing my statement solely on basis of what has come across this list. Since you cited current and important work which has not been visible to list participants I fully retract my statement, and apologize for the cheap shot. (I would code if I could. Not everybody can be a good programmer, strangely enough).

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RESPONSE
by PAUL MOYO 28 Oct '02

28 Oct '02

PAUL MOYO E-MAIL: paulmoyo(a)hotmail.com ATTN:PRESIDENT/CEO Dear Sir/Madam, URGENT ASSISTANCE. Complements of the season.Grace, Peace and love to you. I hope my letter does not cause you too much embarrassment as I write to you in good faith. Please excuse my intrusion into you business life. My name is Paul Moyo, the eldest son of Mr.Dennis Moyo from the Republic of Zimbabwe. During the current war against the farmers in Zimbabwe from the supporters of President Robert Mugabe,in his effort to chase all the white farmers out of the country, he ordered all the white farmers to surrender their farms to his party members and his Followers. My father was one of the most successful farmer in my country, but he did not support the idea of dispossessing the white farmers of their land. Because of this, his farm was invaded and burnt by government supporters. In the course of the attack, my father was killed, and the invaders made away with a lot of items from my Fathers farm. And our family house was utterly destroyed. My mother died too out of heart attack. Before the death of my father, he drew my attention to the sum of US$6,250,000.00 MILLION, Which he deposited with a Security Company in Amsterdam during his tenure as the Finance Minister of Zimbabwe. My sister and I decided to move out of Zimbabwe for our own security, because our lives were in danger. We decided to move to the Amsterdam, The Netherlands where my father deposited this money. Till date, the security company is not aware of the content of the consignment because my father used his diplomatic immunity as at That time to deposit the consignment as important personal valuables.I decided to have contact with overseas person/firm who will assist me to move the money out of Amsterdam. This becomes necessary because as political asylum seekers, we are not allowed to own or operate a bank account. If you accept this proposal, you shall receive 20% of the entire amount for assisting us to move this money out, 75% of this amount shall be for us, and the remaining 5% shall be mapped out for expenses incurred in the course of the transaction. I want you to immediately confirm your interest in the project via my E-mail, as soon as I get your response, I will give you more details on how we can proceed. Thanks for your anticipated cooperation. I await your Urgent response. Best regards, Paul Moyo.

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What is the truth of the anti war rallys?
by James A. Donald 27 Oct '02

27 Oct '02

-- Supposedly tens of thousands turned up, forty two thousand in San Francisco Yet oddly, the photos of marches that I see look more like forty in San Francisco, and four hundred in Washington. Perhaps there were a lot more out of frame, but that is an odd way to photograph a demonstration. Does anyone know the truth from his own eyes, or a more complete set of images? At least some newspapers are reporting "hundreds" or four hundred in Washington, while others are reporting eighty thousand, an number curiously different from four hundred. However it seems that all papers are reporting forty two thousand in San Francisco. The inconsistency in the reports from Washington incline me to doubt the reports from San Francisco, but of course there is a plentiful supply of liars on both sides of the fence. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG XvyryuYS+vBllOZxJ4VX58iglXFp7Ttjj2gWpoWN 4Nfd+VGZPH10x9+jh7fcgqq91ms4mTmBSS+vzsczS

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Re: FC: Privacy villain of the week: DARPA's gait surveillance tech (fwd)
by Eugen Leitl 27 Oct '02

27 Oct '02

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, Bill Stewart wrote: > Sigh. If people are going to beat up on BrinWorld, at least they > should get it right. Brin's Transparent Society stuff makes two points > - Cameras, networks and similar technology are going to keep getting cheaper, > so you're going to lose your privacy. Give up on that now. You're going to die anyway. Kill yourself now. Non sequitur. If the development doesn't happen you don't have a case. If hardware gets cheaper but is not deployed because voters value their privacy you have no case. If countermeasures are legal you have no case. The same technology driving global surveillance also offers advent of countermeasures. I mentioned anonymous telepresence hardware proxies, and sooner or later telepresence is going to become the preferred means of interaction, and much later complete redesign of our hardware platform at molecular scale will become possible. This will take time to develop. We don't need power-crazy maniacs ruining it for everybody, really. > - Governments _are_ going to take advantage of this, like it or not, Governments are not complete juggernauts. They're somewhat controllable. It's surveillance that gives them the ultimate power to squash opposition. You included. Don't give them the means voluntarily. Fight. > so what the public has to do is make sure that we're allowed to > watch the government as well. Dream on. Here's the point where Brin's assumptions break down. I can give you a long list why this won't work. > Brin may be naively optimistic about our ability to succeed on the second part, > but he's spot on about the asymmetry of power relationships, > and he's constantly making the point that we can only watch the government > if we force them to let us watch - the alternative is that they'll be > watching us and we won't be watching them. > > Delaying technology? It's easier to do on stuff that doesn't work well, You can delay both development and deployment. If you delay it long enough it will no longer have the bite it would currently have. > and it sounds like this doesn't - perhaps the way to do it is to > deflect the research away from surveillance into medical directions; > since Darpa's funding it, get them to look at how to help soldiers carry > heavy backpacks safely or spooks to carry dead bodies safely or whatever. Political decisions could kill the demand driving development. Cheapest way for the fringe is to inform and develop countermeasures. Since cypherpunks no longer code, spreading information should have priority.

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Re: FC: Privacy villain of the week: DARPA's gait surveillance tech (fwd)
by Bill Stewart 27 Oct '02

27 Oct '02

[Sorry about any duplicated - lne.com spam-blocked me the first time.] At 01:34 PM 10/27/2002 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: >Advent of another technology wide deployment of which we must delay as >long as possible. ... >Unfortunately, brinistas welcome this development because they idiotically >assume that the technology enables symmetrically, or even assymentrically >in favour of the governed vs. the government. Their arguments sound >superficially convincing to those unfamiliar with the political process >and the logics of power flow. This is the reason they're doing the wrong >thing for the right reasons. Supply the missing part of the argument >whenever you see Brinworld meme propagating. Sigh. If people are going to beat up on BrinWorld, at least they should get it right. Brin's Transparent Society stuff makes two points - Cameras, networks and similar technology are going to keep getting cheaper, so you're going to lose your privacy. Give up on that now. - Governments _are_ going to take advantage of this, like it or not, so what the public has to do is make sure that we're allowed to watch the government as well. Brin may be naively optimistic about our ability to succeed on the second part, but he's spot on about the asymmetry of power relationships, and he's constantly making the point that we can only watch the government if we force them to let us watch - the alternative is that they'll be watching us and we won't be watching them. Delaying technology? It's easier to do on stuff that doesn't work well, and it sounds like this doesn't - perhaps the way to do it is to deflect the research away from surveillance into medical directions; since Darpa's funding it, get them to look at how to help soldiers carry heavy backpacks safely or spooks to carry dead bodies safely or whatever.

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Re: FC: Privacy villain of the week: DARPA's gait surveillance tech (fwd)
by Morlock Elloi 27 Oct '02

27 Oct '02

> No technical solution will work in absence of laws making it legal. Sanity villain statement of the month. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

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Wetwork: Re: Pro-privacy senator dies in crash
by Major Variola (ret) 27 Oct '02

27 Oct '02

Few problems cannot be solved via the discrete use of wetwork... Referenced JC: WASHINGTON--Sen. Paul Wellstone, a Minnesota Democrat who fought to bolster Americans' privacy rights and limit government surveillance of the Internet, was killed in a plane crash on Friday afternoon. Wellstone, 58, was an unapologetic liberal who was elected in 1990 and opposed the Gulf War, sought to increase the minimum wage, and envisioned a tax-funded health care system. He was enmeshed in a tight re-election bid this year. http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963440.html?tag=fd_top

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