- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: mail weirdness
by Declan McCullagh 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 08:53:58AM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > Declan's postings are usually either normal postings to cypherpunks > or else posted to his politech list (most of which have Subject: FC > something.) I'm subscribed to politech, so I haven't had any > weirdness when replying. Yep. I use Eudora and mutt and haven't changed my mail setup in quite a while. (For Politech, I use majordomo and have had FC: prepended since 1996 or so.) Suspect, self-defensively, that I'm not the source of any weirdness. :) -Declan

1 0

RE: The Statism Meme
by Blanc 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

Harmon Seaver said: > Yaaas, yaass, yyaaasss -- and what about us half-assed libertarians, us >leftysized anarchistic earthfirsters, us gunslinging 2nd boys (and >WTF is this ".30-06" bullshit anyway, we ain't all that ancient?), >and other fringe/extremeist ufo/wacko pppeeeples? I mean -- I mean -- >WTF do you mean, Blanc, by signifyin' on all us folks thataway? ......................... It was Duncan, said this. As for half-assed libertarians, well, they're left to their own devices. But I expect you'd be twisting in the wind just the same. .. Blanc

1 0

Re: Gullible Journalists
by Declan McCullagh 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 09:59:58AM -0800, Michael Motyka wrote: > The net effect is that by and large journalists have become a > cheerleading squad when what is needed is a vigorous and independent > critical facility. That is if we are to retain some degree of the > of, by and for philosophy. Maybe nobody wants that except for a few > malcontents. Right. See what I sent to Politech today: Does Richard Clarke know what he's talking about? http://www.politechbot.com/p-04403.html More on Richard Clarke and root servers misstatement http://www.politechbot.com/p-04405.html Richard Clarke misstates Canadian elections cancelled? http://www.politechbot.com/p-04404.html Anyone think that Clarke is going to return my phone calls anytine soon? It's human nature not to like criticism, and to shun (or, if sufficiently annoying, to attack) your critics. As another example, I got a call today from one of the popular Sunday morning talk shows. They wanted my advice on whom to invite on. I recommended someone, and they reminded me, "Um, didn't you watch the program recently? Our host has been critical of that [person]. There's no way we'll get someone from [that organization] on the program." Sigh. -Declan

1 0

Re: The Statism Meme
by Harmon Seaver 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 06:55:26PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Yaaas, yaass, yyaaasss -- and what about us half-assed libertarians, us > leftysized anarchistic earthfirsters, us gunslinging 2nd boys (and WTF is this > ".30-06" bullshit anyway, we ain't all that ancient?), and other > fringe/extremeist ufo/wacko pppeeeples? I mean -- I mean -- WTF do you mean, > Blanc, by signifyin' on all us folks thataway? > > .30-06? geez -- he'd be too old to head fer the hills anyway. Uh, I meant fer that to say, "too old to head fer the hills anyhow."

1 0

Re: mail weirdness
by R. A. Hettinga 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

At 8:53 AM -0800 on 2/4/03, Bill Stewart wrote: > as opposed to Bob Hettinga's practice of copying everything to > his usual sets of lists, most of which don't allow replies from > non-subscribers. Most of which I forward your answers on to, if that's any consolation. Yes, Tim, I know, I'm an idiot, get over it. :-). Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

1 0

The Statism Meme
by Tim May 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

OK, so I watch a lot of t.v., or at least have t.v. dramas on a lot. I'm struck by how many of them this year treat civil liberties as gone, either as old-fashioned or as just plain ignorable. * On the episodes of "Law and Order" (three different versions weekly, often repeated on other nights), the cops routinely roust citizens, shop owners, hotel clerks, etc. Warrants are the exception, and when they are produced, they are merely waved in front of the targets. Whether this represents reality is not the point--the point is that the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments are treated as technicalities to be violated at will. Cops, prosecutors, and judges violating the Constitution are not sanctioned. Those being violated never fight back, whether with shotguns or their own lawyers. * I just watched a new series called "Miracles." A planeload of passengers is held without charges, without arrest warrants. One passenger is simply taken away by the NSA because he may have information of use to them someday. Again, maybe not plausible, but this shows the meme Americans are becoming conditioned to accept. * On one often execrable show called "Judging Amy," "Child Protection" workers are shown bursting into homes and apartments, sans warrants of course. One memorable line was "Yes, we can enter your home without a warrant...because we're not the police." * Even t.v. commercials are spreading the meme that Big Brother is our friend. G.E. has one such commercial where doctors are told: "Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could just type in a name and see every medical treatment your patient has ever received?...with G.E.'s new software, you'll be able to." (paraphrase of their actual commercial) * "Hate speech" is presented on these cop and lawyer shows as being ipso facto illegal. "These people think the Constitution gives them the freedom to spew hate." * Nearly all of the programs present the Internet as a place which needs government control. The lawyers and cops editorialize (actually, the script writers, of course) about how the "Wild West" atmosphere is a haven for terrorists, gun nuts, pornographers, and Islamic militants. Various plots on the court shows have involved ISPs being forced to spy on customers. * "9/11 changed everything" is heard at least weekly. The judges cite it to justify unconstitutional measures, the prosecutors use it to justify warrantless searches and coerced admissions. Yes, I understand this is all fiction. Well, some of the scripts are based on actual events, including coerced confessions, warrantless searches, "sneak and peek" wiretaps, concentration camps in Cuba, etc. That so many of these popular programs have themes as I've described tells us what to expect. The statism meme is growing under hothouse conditions. --Tim May, Corralitos, California Quote of the Month: "It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes; perhaps there are no true libertarians in times of terrorist attacks." --Cathy Young, "Reason Magazine," both enemies of liberty.

2 1

Re: The Statism Meme
by Harmon Seaver 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

Yeah right -- the eyeties just joined the "new european order" supporting an immediate invasion of Iraq. At least, according to Powell they did. On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:47:02PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > >Don't count on EU, we're just as fucked, albeit with a slight delay. > > What about Italy? The Italians seem to be remarkably good at ignoring both > the vatican as well as their government (which changes every few years and > no wonder...do ANY Italians actually pay taxes?). And yet, Northern Italy > has as high a standard of living as I've ever seen. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com

1 0

RE: The Statism Meme
by Duncan Frissell 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Blanc wrote: > Years ago I asked a group of Libertarians at a meeting what they would do if > a particular politican, who was then running for President, won and turned > everything into a bona-fide, outright statist state like Russia was at the > time. They couldn't adequately answer my question; they couldn't come up > with any ideas of how to deal with it, what they would do if they suddenly > were faced with having to live with it. Maybe they were just being You mean no one said, "I'd grab the .30-06 and head for the hills"? We're not quite there yet. Since no one did it during WWII when the oppression was greater -- 200,000 internees, rationing, travel controls, bans on posession of radio equipment, conscription, etc. -- we have some time to think. DCF

1 0

RE: The Statism Meme
by Blanc 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

Eugen Leitl replies: >Don't count on EU, we're just as fucked, albeit with a slight delay. .................. Thanks, Eugen. This makes me feel better. On emigration choices, I guess one could just take a pick of whether they wish to be more, or less, f****d. .. Blanc

1 0

body parts of astronauts
by Igor Chudov 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

I can understand the argument that the parts of the shuttle are government property, so their "conversion" to private property may be criminal. But astronauts are not government property. So if, let's say, a charred head falls into my backyard, then it would be legal for me to put it into a jar with denaturate alcohol, as a souvenir, right? igor

1 0