- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Underestimating long-term consequences of cryptoanarchy
by Major Variola (ret) 14 May '03

14 May '03

At 10:44 PM 5/10/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > I think that's the only way gov't ought to be allowed to fund itself, >by selling lottery tickets. Only if the funds go to math depts. ---- "Today I am going to teach you how to count" --Prof. Arthur Mattuck

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Re: what fields to hash with hashcash (Re: A Trial Balloon to Ban Email?)
by Adam Back 14 May '03

14 May '03

On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 10:02:42AM -0400, Sunder wrote: > And what happens when there's a network outage and a message gets stuck in > the queue for a day on another server? You know a backup MX server when > yours is hosed? > > Do you not accept the mail because the current day doesn't match what's in > the message? Or do you accept mails from a day ago? a week ago? a year > ago? 1922? I was suggesting 30 days. You could up that if you want -- the database won't be that big at say 32 bytes per recieved mail. The day is matched against the day in the token, as Bill said the tokens contain the date and the email address, in fact they look like this: 0:030514:foo@bar.com:482d3c37d5b5c112 where the first field is a version number, 2nd field is date (year,month,day), 3rd field is resource name (for email the recipient's email address) and last field is random junk to make it hash to trailing zeros. if you hash that with sha1: % echo -n 0:030514:foo@bar.com:482d3c37d5b5c112 | sha1 00000bea531c1edbcee4fbb69e094026cd83ed75 You can see that this one has 20 leadings 0s (in binary -- 5x4bit hex digits). > 2nd, why wouldn't the spammer just adjust and send an email to each > recipient with a random, but properly hashed token to match the target > address + today's date? More work for sure, but if enough targets start > adopting it, the spammer will adapt. The token doesn't have to contain an > actual valid coin, and you'll only find out when you try to cash it. If the token is random (ie the spammer put no computational work into it), it won't have the required number of bits of collision and the recipient will reject it. eg I'll just type this one in myself: 0:030514:sunder@sunder.net:0123456789abcdef Then my MTA or my mail-client (or any MTA in the path that does checking) will check: % echo -n 0:030514:sunder@sunder.net:0123456789abcdef aeeaf7971f7e30e2485062b17b43189e5361383f and see that there are insufficient leading 0 bits (none in this case). The tokens are only valid to a given recipient, if a spammer sends you a token address to me, you'll reject it because it doesn't have an address you receive mail for in it. If a spammers sends you the same valid token twice, you'll reject it because you keep a little database of received tokens. There is software here (windows GUI, windows cmd line, unix cmd line): http://www.cypherspace.org/hashcash/ Adam

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Spammer economics (was: Re: CDR: Re: A Trial Balloon to)
by Jamie Lawrence 14 May '03

14 May '03

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Re: Underestimating long-term consequences of cryptoanarchy
by Tyler Durden 14 May '03

14 May '03

"running gambling operations while declaring gambling immoral and illegal is clearly nonsensical and (I think) unconstitutional" Not to mention the CIA running crack into inner-city neighborhoods and tipping off the local dealers prior to a big DEA bust, all the while declaring all things non-Alchohol to be "drugs", and illegal/immoral. -TD >From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Underestimating long-term consequences of cryptoanarchy >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:00:25 -0700 > >On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 03:08 PM, John Kelsey wrote: > >>At 10:03 AM 5/10/03 -0700, Tim May wrote: >>[Talking about government-assisted projects and businesses going broke] >>>Which is all evolution in action, except that government should not be in >>>the construction and business development business. (I would go further >>>and say that nothing in the U.S. Constitution, which states and >>>localities are bound by, justifies taking money from citizens to give to >>>businesses. No matter "how smart an investment" it looks to be. Ditto for >>>governments running gambling operations, but I >> digress.) >> >>It's very clear that this is bad policy, though I'm not too sure it's >>actually unconstitutional. Didn't the states finance and run some of the >>early canals? > >The states also established state religions and banned books, in the >century or so for it to shake out in the Supreme Court that when the states >agreed to support the Constitution as a condition for joining the Union it >meant that they really did have to support the Constitution. > >The Bill of Rights is quite clear that powers not specifically granted to >government by the Constitution don't exist. > >While building canals is arguably related to national defense and the >common good (though I think private actors are better suited to build >canals, and railroads, etc.), running gambling operations while declaring >gambling immoral and illegal is clearly nonsensical and (I think) >unconstitutional. Regrettably, the political stooges who sit on the Supreme >Court have put considering this business of government running gambling >dens about #131 on the list of probably unconstitutional things to look at. > >(I think the courts should hold personally liable those who pass >unconstitutional measures. Imprisoning those who commit acts later declared >to be unconstitutional might disincentivize them to blithely pass >unconstitutional bills.) > >To repeat, government cannot declare gambling a social evil which must be >banned and then turn around and set up its own gambling operations. > >Everyone involved in the many state gambling operations should receive >sentences no less harsh than those imprisoned on gambling charges. This >would mean most would die in prison. Except for those who ought to be >killed for their other substantial crimes, this would be a good thing. > >"I was just following orders" is, of course, not a defense. The lowliest >lottery clerk should receive the same multi-year prison sentence that a Mob >numbers runner would receive. > >The kingpins in the Republicrat parties will, of course, receive effective >death sentences, gang-raped by the lifers they sent to prison for competing >with the JFL/LBJ/Nixon/Ollie North/Bill Clinton/Mena, Arkansas drug >pipeline set up decades ago by corrupt-on-earth Washington politicians like >John F. Kennedy. At least he got whacked. > > >--Tim May, Occupied America >"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety >deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: Email send
by Joseph Ashwood 14 May '03

14 May '03

----- Original Message ----- From: <pang_bo(a)163.com> Subject: Email send > We have 1,700,000,000 email address list.for all database (300$USD) Well I guess that settles the debate over how much spammers pay for their list of emails doesn't it. Joe

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Blue Windscreen of Death
by Bill Stewart 14 May '03

14 May '03

A different kind of car crash ------ Forwarded Message From: "Robert J. Berger" <rberger(a)ibd.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:31:11 -0700 Subject: MS Windows Crash Traps Thai Politician in Car Crashed Computer Traps Thai Politician Updated 14 May 2003 http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2003/n051301.shtml Thailand's Finance Minister Suchart Jaovisidha had to be rescued today from inside his expensive BMW limousine after the onboard computer crashed, leaving the vehicle immobilized. Once the computer failed, neither the door locks, power windows nor air conditioning systems would function, leaving the Minister and his driver trapped inside the rapidly heating vehicle. Despite the pair's best efforts, it took a full ten minutes before they were able to summon the attention of a nearby guard who freed the two men by smashing one of the vehicle's windows with a sledgehammer. A report (http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/13May2003_biz12.html) published in the Bangkok Post indicates that the vehicle was Mr Jaovisidha's own BMW 520 which was being used while his state-supplied Mercedes, was being repaired. BMW's more up-market 7-series range uses a computer system called i-drive which has Microsoft's WindowsCE at its core (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/Mar02/03-04BMWpr.asp) Did Mr Jaovisidha narrowly miss being killed by the blue windscreen of death? -- Robert J. Berger - Internet Bandwidth Development, LLC. Voice: 408-882-4755 eFax: +1-408-490-2868 http://www.ibd.com ------ End of Forwarded Message

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Re: What Happened????
by Tyler Durden 13 May '03

13 May '03

Apparently, some pilings smashed a Boston megaPOP in Allegiance terrritory earlier today. Lots of 'sites were pretty much unreachable today. -TD >From: JR <jroyale(a)sonic.net> >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >Subject: What Happened???? >Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:36:48 -0700 > >Due to technical difficulties (where technical difficulties are broadly >defined as employing hillbilly system administrators) Pighaven, home to all >pigdog lists, is experiencing some much need rest. > >We anticipate that service will be restore sometime this evening... unless >of course, the hillbillies decide to get drunk instead. > >JR > >PS. If you are not subscribed to any pigdog email lists, I apologize for >bothering you. Nothing to see here, now move along. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Why are there so many statists and communists here on this list now?
by Tim May 13 May '03

13 May '03

In looking over the traffic of the past weeks, I am struck by how many of the posts are defending statism and state action. Mostly by Europeans, coincidentally or not. Did some mention of our list in the Journal of Social Action cause you to subscribe? Why are you here? --Tim May "They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." --Rep. Ron Paul, TX, on how few Congresscritters saw the USA-PATRIOT Bill before voting overwhelmingly to impose a police state

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Hunting spam
by Mike Rosing 13 May '03

13 May '03

The following was posted on comp.dsp today. Maybe someone on this list would like to pay them a visit? Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike ------------------------Forwarded post------------------------- So who are the honourable gentlemen in the bulk e-mail business? This gentleman is one of the greatest spammers ever: Alan Ralsky Alan Murray Ralsky 6747 Minnow Pond Dr, MI 48322 Telephone: 248-926-0688 E-mail: amr777(a)comcast.net >From Detroit Free Press: "The computers in Ralsky's basement control 190 e-mail servers -- 110 located in Southfield, 50 in Dallas and 30 more in Canada, China, Russia and India. Each computer, he said, is capable of sending out 650,000 messages every hour -- more than a billion a day -- routed through overseas Internet companies Ralsky said are eager to sell him bandwidth." and here is his lawyer: Robert Harrison (248) 253-1800 2550 S Telegraph Rd Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302 he must be a busy man defending this very successful businessman. Here is another interesting person: Mark Felstein FELSTEIN & ASSOCIATES, P.A. Attorneys for EMarketersAmerica.org, Inc. 555 South Federal Highway, Suite 450 Boca Raton, Florida 33432 (561) 367-7990 Phone (561) 367-7980 Facsimile E-mail: mark(a)EMarketersAmerica.org E-mail: mfels(a)aol.com Here is some e-mail spider fodder, addressed back to my favourite spammers: mailto:amr777@comcast.net mailto:mfels@aol.com mailto:mark@EMarketersAmerica.org mailto:info@linkgift.com mailto:sales@linkgift.com mailto:abuse@linkgift.com mailto:jdoe@pointmarketing.net mailto:jdoe@demosondemand.com mailto:jdoe@www.demosondemand.com mailto:jdoe@mail.only-optin.com mailto:jdoe@www.only-optin.com mailto:jdoe@www.glbcom.net mailto:jdoe@chinese.net.my mailto:jdoe@marketingontarget.net mailto:jdoe@image.marketingontarget.net mailto:jdoe@track.marketingontarget.net mailto:jdoe@opt-out.marketingontarget.net mailto:jdoe@www.esijang.net mailto:jdoe@kali.com.cn mailto:jdoe@mail1.kali.com.cn mailto:jdoe@quote.morningstar.com mailto:jdoe@exchangemail.iodesign.com mailto:jdoe@rd.yahoo.com mailto:jdoe@www.kookmincard.co.kr mailto:jdoe@wwp.icq.com mailto:jdoe@sanangel.cdg.com.mx mailto:jdoe@email-4-prizes.com mailto:jdoe@www.email-4-prizes.com mailto:jdoe@ofr.mb00.net mailto:jdoe@click.memolink.com mailto:jdoe@i.mb00.net mailto:jdoe@www.memolink.com mailto:jdoe@r.mb00.net mailto:jdoe@smtp4.cyberecschange.com mailto:jdoe@m10.grp.snv.yahui.com mailto:jdoe@internetdrive.com mailto:jdoe@www.netbizplace.com mailto:jdoe@images.temd.net mailto:jdoe@opt-in.emailsvc.net mailto:jdoe@emailsvc.net mailto:jdoe@m3m2.emailsvc.net mailto:jdoe@track.emailsvc.net mailto:jdoe@i.coopt.com mailto:jdoe@track.coopt.com mailto:jdoe@tracker.coopt.com mailto:jdoe@test.hobbyheroes.com mailto:jdoe@www.qves.com mailto:jdoe@wireless.freeze.com mailto:jdoe@images.inphonic.com mailto:jdoe@messenger.netscape.com mailto:jdoe@ombramarketing.com mailto:jdoe@www.oneshare.com mailto:jdoe@0mbra.com mailto:jdoe@maktoob.com mailto:jdoe@www.sex4people.com mailto:jdoe@direct.coza.com mailto:jdoe@clicks.virtuagirl.com mailto:jdoe@b03.x0z.net mailto:jdoe@ssads.osdn.com mailto:jdoe@ssads.osdv.com mailto:jdoe@www.macromedia.com --- such nice people, these bulk mailers.

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Other changes to the CDR
by Jim Choate 13 May '03

13 May '03

Just as an aside, and perhaps a friendly warning :) We expect to complete the authorization issues on the current Hangar 18 cluster project the third week of June. At that point at least the current Hangar 18 lists (~200) and the SSZ lists (ie CDR and a couple of others) will be migrated to that format. We hope to have that migration completed by sometime in July. We currently expect to start with 80G of space and increase as needed. Additionaly we'll be moving from this ISDN to 384k SDSL in the Oct. time frame. At least at the start we will continue to support subscribers in the traditional sense. But once we have enough 9P users (there are drivers for many OS'es now) we can drop the traditional *nix interface (we'll probably do that when 90% of our users are via 9P). It's worth mentioning that we'll also be able to support NFS and SMB as well (though we will not make such resources universal/global in nature because of the various security issues, they also have very! limited support for transitive mounts). The general layout will be to mount the namespace on some local point of your choosing (eg /hangar18) and below that will be all the community resources. To participate in a list for example will be nothing more than editing a text file and dropping it in the appropriate dir (eg /hangar18/cypherpunks/submission) where it will then be moved over to a longer-lived location (eg /hangar18/cypherpunks/<date>). The propogation will be handled via 9P services. To access the resources one must either be a direct participant via tit-for-tat or else a tit-for-tat node will provide some sort of access via their own policies (eg $$ to the public or free to friends). The title will be the filename, the author the owner, and if you want to cc then it will be a cp with multiple targets, and each 'mail list' will not be aware of what other lists it was copied to (though you could certainly create a header like structure to share that info). -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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