- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Crypto Bounties
by Ian Grigg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

azur(a)netcom.com wrote: > Why not the free market rate the programmers. Have a software > distribution/payment collection system which requires that the programmer > get a completion bond from a 3rd-part insurance company. If the programmer > fails to deliver as promised and/or on-time the donding company pays the > 'investors' back in full. Since the bonding company's money would be at > risk, if the programmer failed to deliver, they have every incentive to > conservatively rate the programmers/companies offering ot build SW to spec. What you are essentially doing is buying reputation I guess, although I am not familiar with completion bonds, so I the following is mostly conjecture on their nature. There are two major feature/bugs with the completion bond. Firstly, it requires the bonding company to make a judgement, and this adds a weak point into the link. That judgement will then result in a lot of emphasis on the fine print of the contract, and fundamentally, software doesn't work very well when fine print gets involved. The notion of "completion" especially sits oddly with the scenario described, where freeware of mostly source form gets distributed to a wide group of programmers who can adjust minor problems fairly easily. I would guess that when EDS delivers a product, there are completion ("penalty") clauses, but when the Internet was "delivered" there was no such clause. Secondly, the existance of an intermediary points to a major inefficiency in the market. Whilst your joy at paying intermediaries may vary, historically, intermediaries follow a pattern of building barriers to entry, raising charges, and slowing innovation. This is theory that is generally applicable in practice, and it is for this reason that the emphasis in my post was on removing the single point of guaruntee. In the context, I would also question the nature of a financial entity that was willing to sell its reputation to cryptoanarchists. > >[slash] However, I like this viewpoint because it > >eliminates the need for judges. History shows that a good market > >microstructure will beat an authority approach in the long run. By aiming for no single point of judgement, the only solution that we found was to rely on a multi-shot game, with past reputation leading to up-front payment leading to confirmation of reputation. As it happens, the bonding companies will rely heavily on reputation as well, in its varying forms, anyway. snow(a)smoke.suba.com originally asked: > >> Has anything like this been proposed before? > > Yes, Eric Hughes proposed a broad and structured proposal primarily > addressing this manner of market funding for software development (and > possibly suitable for other intellectual property creation) at DEFCON IV. > My previous comments on completion bonds were taken from his presentation. Yes, I saw that earlier post, and did a quick search for it but no luck. If any one can point us at the paper, that would be useful. On a slightly related note - is there any interest in setting up a mailgroup for programmers and designers of markets? There's plenty of cash stuff out there but I know of no forums for trading of fungible items. -- iang iang(a)systemics.com

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Used to Be
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Used to be that if you wanted dirty words or pictures, you had to go to Paris. Used to be that if you wanted Nazis, you had to go to Deutschland. Used to be that if you wanted to know how to blow things up, you had to go to the US Government Printing Office. Used to be that if you wanted racists, you had to go to Alabama. Used to be that if you wanted commies, you had to go to Moscow (or at least the LSE). Used to be that if you wanted garrulous bores, you had to go to you local watering hole. Used to be that if you wanted child molesters you had to go to your local public school. Used to be that if you wanted a cop you had to go to the nearest doughnut shop. Now you can get all of the above and more from the privacy of your own home on the Internet. DCF

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Re: "Right to Privacy" and Crypto
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Just cleaning up old responses to old messages: Sometimes I will see long articles on subpoenas, contempt of court, and compelled testimony in which no one mentions the fact that the only sanction used is a little bit of imprisonment (two years seems to be the max). That's for things you know. Since software can be made harder to compel than people, a properly configured system (sort of like a spendthrift trust where you can't get at it when compelled) may allow you to dodge sanctions entirely. Once we get better at human programming, it should be possible to make our nervous system a secure system that can't respond when coerced. This can already be done by conscious self programming in individuation. I certainly try to do that. Studies of the effects of North Korean brainwashing on different types of POWs showed a wide variability in susceptibility. Likewise studies of Moonie brainwashing. Political "moderates" with little or no ideology find it hard to resist coercion. "You can't fight something with nothing." In Korea, the prisoners from Turkey, proved impossible to brainwash. They had a mental toughness, a tradition of self posession, and a tolerance for physical discomfort that strengthened their defenses. Most U.S. Moonie recruits were from squishy liberal households (like Barbara Underwood of the Moonie 5 trial). I am not as physically tough as a Turkish soldier but I am certainly tough ideologically. In resisting coercion I use a form of "name magic" to strengthen me and weaken the opposition. If you can control the naming of an act or a relation, you can dominate the situation even if you are in a weaker position. Thus when Moonie recruiters approached me at the No. 10 Monterey bus stop in front of the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park in SF with their usual "Hi sailor, new in town?" approach ("Are you from out of town? We live with a group of people. Would you like to come to dinner?); I responded "I'm not interested in the Reverend Moon." They left me alone. When confronting con artists, I usually name the general category name of their cons: "Spanish Prisoners," "Shell Game," "Bank Examiners Con," etc. Naming works with the Geheime Staatspolizei as well. "You can't park here." "I'm not parking, I'm standing." "Well you can't stand here either." "OK." "In nature it's kill or be killed. In politics it's define or be defined." -- Szaz DCF

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CAVE Query
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We've received by black bag a 25-page doc entitled: TR45.3, Appendix A to IS-54, Rev. B Dual-Mode Cellular System Authentication, Message Encryption, Voice Mask Generation, A-Key Verification, and Test Data February, 1992. No Source. It describes the CAVE cryptographic function in detail, and its use to generate a set of cryptovariables for the Cellular Message Encryption Algorithm (CMEA); for generation of 520 bits for the duplex voice privacy masks; and for other tasks. Each page warns that information in the document may be subject to export jurisdiction under ITAR. Does anyone know if this is already available on the Web? TIA of incarceration.

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Re: [NOISE] aga isn't on cypherpunks... (and I'm glad)
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > That is your last warning, Mike. If you start harasing my postmaster, > I will have your fucking ass in Federal Court before you can blink. > I on the other hand can kick your ass because I am in the UK and I look forward to doing so immensely unless you stop sending shit to the list... Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Reputation based hiring (was REQUESTING INFORMATION)
by Clay Olbon II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:12 PM 11/19/96 -0200, George A. Stathis wrote (in part): >Does your "unemployment list" include Doctor Dimitri Vulis? I'd be greatful >to know this. >Please, seriously now, and if you have such evidence (that >Dimitri is 'lazy', 'stupid' or 'dishonest') send to me if you can... I won't comment on who I will or won't hire. I will state that I believe that what a person posts is a relevant issue when it comes time to make a hiring decision. Hiring is based on many factors other than simply technical ability. If someone thinks that another should not be hired for whatever reason, I support their right to hold that belief and even to publicize it. <rant against cypherpunks deleted> I won't follow you into the gutter on this one. That horse has been dead for days (and it is beginning to smell really bad). Clay ******************************************************* Clay Olbon olbon(a)ix.netcom.com engineer, programmer, statistitian, etc. **********************************************tanstaafl

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Monitor Radio Talks Crypto-FUD
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The FUDgine keeps rolling down the track... Looks like Monitor Radio's promoting 56-bit encryption. Reporter's name is Duncan Moon. Quotes a guy quoting Blaze (not mentioning Matt). Calls 56 bit encryption "puny in the future", but not now. The article talks about hardware as giving keylength economic legs, with some logic I can't quite fathom... Cheers, Bob ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "The cost of anything is the foregone alternative" -- Walter Johnson The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/

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RE: Unsubtroll
by Daniel Todd 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

uh.... I think the last 5 letters were a hint :-) -- Daniel D. Todd Technology Analyst USWeb Corporation 408.987.3294 >---------- >From: Butler, Scott[SMTP:SButler@chemson.com] >Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 1996 12:15 AM >To: 'cypherpunks(a)toad.com' >Subject: FW: Unsubtroll > > > >FOR GOD'S SAKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >>---------- >>From: piotrk@opnt.optimus.wroc.pl[SMTP:piotrk@opnt.optimus.wroc.pl] >>Sent: 19 November 1996 05:04 >>Subject: Unsubtroll >> >>>unsubtroll >> >

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RE: The Utility of Privacy
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Isn't asking about the "utility of privacy" like asking about the utility of having a self independent from others - a separate identity of one's own, subject only to one's own command, with complete authority to determine the occasion of its visibility? Is there anything justifiable about separating oneself from the company of others and becoming non-visible to them, at those times when one is out of their sight, away from their awareness of one's existence, of one's activities, of one's thoughts & manners? What do youall think you are, anyway? Special? .. Blanc > >

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Cyber Power in Forbes
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dayglo Yellow on dayglo pink cover of the December 2, 1996 Forbes. Wired Envy. CYBER POWER gives financial markets a veto over the President and Congress by Peter Huber DCF

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