July 2018 - cypherpunks-legacy

[EPIC_IDOF] Our Domestic Intelligence Crisis
by Richard M. Smith 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/20/AR200512200… 53.html Our Domestic Intelligence Crisis By Richard A. Posner Wednesday, December 21, 2005; Page A31 We've learned that the Defense Department is deeply involved in domestic intelligence (intelligence concerning threats to national security that unfold on U.S. soil). The department's National Security Agency has been conducting, outside the framework of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, electronic surveillance of U.S. citizens within the United States. Other Pentagon agencies, notably the one known as Counterintelligence Field Activity (CIFA), have, as described in Walter Pincus's recent articles in The Post, been conducting domestic intelligence on a large scale. Although the CIFA's formal mission is to prevent attacks on military installations in the United States, the scale of its activities suggests a broader concern with domestic security. Other Pentagon agencies have gotten into the domestic intelligence act, such as the Information Dominance Center, which developed the Able Danger data-mining program. These programs are criticized as grave threats to civil liberties. They are not. Their significance is in flagging the existence of gaps in our defenses against terrorism. The Defense Department is rushing to fill those gaps, though there may be better ways. The collection, mainly through electronic means, of vast amounts of personal data is said to invade privacy. But machine collection and processing of data cannot, as such, invade privacy. Because of their volume, the data are first sifted by computers, which search for names, addresses, phone numbers, etc., that may have intelligence value. This initial sifting, far from invading privacy (a computer is not a sentient being), keeps most private data from being read by any intelligence officer. The data that make the cut are those that contain clues to possible threats to national security. The only valid ground for forbidding human inspection of such data is fear that they might be used to blackmail or otherwise intimidate the administration's political enemies. That danger is more remote than at any previous period of U.S. history. Because of increased political partisanship, advances in communications technology and more numerous and competitive media, American government has become a sieve. No secrets concerning matters that would interest the public can be kept for long. And the public would be far more interested to learn that public officials were using private information about American citizens for base political ends than to learn that we have been rough with terrorist suspects -- a matter that was quickly exposed despite efforts at concealment. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act makes it difficult to conduct surveillance of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents unless they are suspected of being involved in terrorist or other hostile activities. That is too restrictive. Innocent people, such as unwitting neighbors of terrorists, may, without knowing it, have valuable counterterrorist information. Collecting such information is of a piece with data-mining projects such as Able Danger. ... _______________________________________________ EPIC_IDOF mailing list EPIC_IDOF(a)mailman.epic.org https://mailman.epic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/epic_idof ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen(a)leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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Re: [IP] more on Bush Lets U.S. Spy on Callers Without Courts
by Adam Fields 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 07:37:37PM -0500, David Farber wrote: >Begin forwarded message: > >From: Chris Beck <cbeck(a)pacanukeha.net> [...] >I don't read papers in their printed form, but my experience with >blogs and other new media news sources is that they cover what is >apparently happening very well, but hidden stuff still seems to be >revealed mostly by professional journalists who have the time and >budget to travel, meet sources, &c. Notice that even in the one >year gap in which the Times knew about this, it didn't explode on >anyone's website. > >Who new - the papers still serve a purpose :) It's not so much that the papers serve a purpose as it is that they hire (and support with the resources of their organization) journalists. Largely, bloggers are not investigative journalists. Bloggers have a very good distribution network, and are excellent at getting out stories where the focus is either something public or something where a blogger has some sort of inside access stemming from their own personal situation. But bloggers don't often have large organizations behind them to defend their sources, which I'd expect would be a concern when you're blowing the whistle on a large secret government operation. This difference is key - it takes money and free time to do the footwork required to follow a story, verify it, research it, and defend it if need be, and most bloggers aren't professional bloggers, let alone professional journalists. It's a very small number of bloggers who have the resources, training, inclination, or connections/reputation to develop breaking news stories. In this discourse, we should definitely be drawing a distinction between news distribution and news origination. It's entirely possible that this will change in the next few years, but still - the stories have to come from somewhere. -- - Adam ** Expert Technical Project and Business Management **** System Performance Analysis and Architecture ****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ] [ http://www.aquick.org/blog ] ............ Blog [ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos [ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ].............Wiki [ http://del.icio.us/fields ] ............. Links ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen(a)leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]

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[IP] more on Bush Lets U.S. Spy on Callers Without Courts
by David Farber 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Begin forwarded message:

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[IP] Our Domestic Intelligence Crisis
by David Farber 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Begin forwarded message:

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[tahoe-lafs-weekly-news] TWN #10
by Patrick R McDonald 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

======================================================== Tahoe-LAFS Weekly News, issue number 10, August 7, 2011 ======================================================== Welcome to the Tahoe-LAFS Weekly News (TWN). Tahoe-LAFS_ is a secure, distributed storage system. `View TWN on the web`_ *or* `subscribe to TWN`_. .. _Tahoe-LAFS: http://tahoe-lafs.org .. _View TWN on the web: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/TahoeLAFSWeeklyNews .. _subscribe to TWN: http://tahoe-lafs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-lafs-weekly-news Announcements and News ====================== Progress_ towards 1.9 continues. This week saw the inclusion of the following four "defect" tickets: 1384_: detect available space with storage/shares/ instead of storage/ 1398_: make docs/performance.rst more precise 1441_: tahoe debug --help is wrong about running coverage on debian 1454_: remove misc/debian/ The development team `landed and closed`_ numerous tickets for 1.9. Among these tickets are 1385_ (stop respecting pre-v1.3.0 config files) and 1268_ (speed up large downloads by merging Share.loop() calls) Hopefully beta1 for 1.9 will be coming out this week. .. _Progress: http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-August/006631.html .. _1384: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1384 .. _1398: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1398 .. _1441: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1441 .. _1454: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1454 .. _`landed and closed`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/query?status=closed&milestone=1.9.0&g… .. _1385: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1385 .. _1268: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1268 Free and Open Source Project of the Week ======================================== `puppet-tahoe`_ is the Free and Open Source Project of the Week. FranC'ois Deppierraz's creation allows you to administer your Tahoe installation through the use of Puppet_. Using Puppet helps to ease administrative changes, ensure various files exist and have the appropriate permissions. .. _`puppet-tahoe`: http://github.com/ctrlaltdel/puppet-tahoe .. _Puppet: http://www.puppetlabs.com/ >From the tahoe-dev Mailing List =============================== Joseph Ming and others discussed `protecting caps`_. One interesting quote from the discussion is "Knowledge of the rootcap is both necessary and sufficient to retrieve your data." Tahoe Security Mantra [1_] A discussion started into constructing the pubgrid_ so it could continue to demonstrate Tahoe functionality without being abused. Last week we disabled the grid as the result of people abusing it, storing database files, hacking tools, etc. To this end, we reestablished the pubgrid introducer, but not the gateway. With the introducer, people can test Tahoe by downloading, put in the furl of the introdcuer and thus access the test grid. Among the current suggestions are: * extremely short lease expirations on all storage servers * write size limits * read size limits * rate limit The dev team provide Olaf a solution_ to his compilation issue on OS X. The issue is the result of a problem with Nevow_. Nevow needs to be updated to fix the conflict, but the new version hasn't been released yet. .. _`protecting caps`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-August/006627.html .. _1: http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-August/006645.html .. _pubgrid: http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-August/006647.html .. _solution: http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-August/006634.html .. _Nevow: http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-August/006638.html Patch Needing Review of the Week ================================ Rather than single out any new patch, this week is dedicated to all the new patches going into 1.9. So headed on here_ and pick a patch to review. Currently there are 6 patches needing review for 1.9. Let's see if we can't halve that number by next week. Awesome job by everyone to reduce this number by 7 patches from last week. .. _here: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/query?status=!closed&keywords=~review… ---- *The Tahoe-LAFS Weekly News is published once a week by The Tahoe-LAFS Software Foundation, President and Treasurer: Peter Secor. Scribes: Patrick "marlowe" McDonald, Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn, Editor: Zooko.* `View TWN on the web`_ *or* `subscribe to TWN`_ *. Send your news stories to* marlowe(a)antagonism.org_ *b submission deadline: Friday night.* .. _marlowe(a)antagonism.org: mailto:marlowe@antagonism.org -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- | Patrick R. McDonald GPG Key: 668AA5DF | | https://www.antagonism.org/ <marlowe(a)antagonism.org> | | <mcdonald.patrick.r(a)gmail.com> | | <patrick(a)opensecurityfoundation.org> | ---------------------------------------------------------------- | Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium | ---------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ tahoe-lafs-weekly-news mailing list tahoe-lafs-weekly-news(a)tahoe-lafs.org http://tahoe-lafs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-lafs-weekly-news ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: public scalable vpn?
by Steven Bellovin 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

On Feb 18, 2012, at 6:51 PM, George Bonser wrote: >> academics in ontario are gonna need a scalable vpn service until they >> find jobs elsewhere. >> >> http://www.cautbulletin.ca/en_article.asp?SectionID=1386&SectionName=Ne >> ws&VolID=336&VolumeName=No%202&VolumeStartDate=2/10/2012&EditionID=36&E >> ditionName=Vol%2059&EditionStartDate=1/19/2012&ArticleID=3400 >> >> i can only handle a dozen or so. anyone running anything at scale? >> >> randy > > "The agreement reached last month with the licensing agency includes provisions defining e-mailing hyperlinks as equivalent to photocopying a document" > > I certainly hope that is some politicized hype printed in that article and not real. That is absolutely idiotic on the face of it. When I have seen stuff like this printed in the past it has generally been over the top catastrophizing of an issue in order to inflame emotions. I sure hope that's the case here. Otherwise my impression of Canadians has sunk to a new low. Why would it be in anyone's interest to sign such an agreement? It seems to be real -- see http://communications.uwo.ca/western_news/stories/2012/February/copyright_d… I asked a Canadian friend of mine (who has serious privacy and security expertise) about it. She said "Yes - we were discussing this vile decision in my Technopolicy law class... I have no idea what they were thinking! Idiots." --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [p2p-hackers] Pirate Pay
by James A. Donald 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

On 2012-05-14 6:01 PM, Daniel Reusche wrote: > This is why we are improving our blacklists and trust models. I think > BitTorrent is an ideal testing field for a karma based economy. Bittorrent's notorious problem is that it does not remember anything from one torrent to the next, and does not share graph or karma data from on peer to the next, because managing shared graph data is tricky, and managing shared karma data is a great deal trickier. This results in lack of incentive to seed, with the result that the vast majority of torrents are unseeded. Torrents die. To fix this problem, people tend to form associations based on a particular web site. The association rewards and penalizes people according to their upload download ratio, which is the wrong metric. The important metric is keeping approved torrents alive, the important metric is storage availability rather than bandwidth, though bandwidth matters also. The association has a central point of failure, its website and its operators, who come under pressure. One needs a distributed system that gives people incentives to seed - that rewards people for providing other people storage and availability. Some design characteristics: *. Peers are identified by a durable public key. *. Peers interact with keys they do not trust, but expect protocol conformance and prosocial behavior only from keys they trust. Peers limit their exposure to non trusted keys so that they can suffer only limited damage from non trusted keys deviating from protocol or otherwise misbehaving. *. Peers may not only trust Bob, but transitively everyone Bob trusts, and everyone that those peers trust ... If this works, they increase their transitive trust in Bob, if it fails they decrease their transitive trust. *. Prosocial behavior consists of conforming to protocol, storage availability, with valuable, or at least demanded, stuff in storage and accessible on demand, and paying ones bandwidth and storage debts. Since networks are unreliable, perfect protocol conformity is never expected or demanded, but the burden that one's deviations from protocol place on other peers counts against one's karma. Thus Bob performs the functions of the website in a bittorrent association - thus every well behaved peer performs the function of the website in a bittorrent association. _______________________________________________ p2p-hackers mailing list p2p-hackers(a)lists.zooko.com http://lists.zooko.com/mailman/listinfo/p2p-hackers ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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<nettime> World's First Flying File-Sharing Drones in Action
by michael gurstein 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

World <http://torrentfreak.com/worlds-first-flying-file-sharing-drones-in-action-1 20320/> 's First Flying File-Sharing Drones in Action http://torrentfreak.com/worlds-first-flying-file-sharing-drones-in-action-12 0320/ A few days ago The Pirate Bay announced that in future parts of its site could be hosted on GPS controlled drones. To many this may have sounded like a joke, but in fact these pirate drones already exist. Project "Electronic Countermeasures" has built a swarm of five fully operational drones which prove that an "aerial Napster" or an "airborne Pirate Bay" is not as futuristic as it sounds. picture of a drone <http://torrentfreak.com/images/sharing-drone1.jpg> In an ever-continuing effort to thwart censorship, The Pirate Bay plans to turn flying drones into mobile hosting locations <http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bays-attacks-censorship-with-server-dron es-120318/> . "Everyone knows WHAT TPB is. Now they're going to have to think about WHERE TPB is," The Pirate Bay team told TorrentFreak last Sunday, announcing their drone project. Liam Young, co-founder of Tomorrow <http://www.tomorrowsthoughtstoday.com/> 's Thoughts Today, was amazed to read the announcement, not so much because of the technology, because his group has already built a swarm of file-sharing drones. "I thought hold on, we are already doing that," Young told TorrentFreak. Their starting point for project "Electronic Countermeasures" was to create something akin to an 'aerial Napster' or 'airborne Pirate Bay', but it became much more than that. "Part nomadic infrastructure and part robotic swarm, we have rebuilt and programmed the drones to broadcast their own local Wi-Fi network as a form of aerial Napster. They swarm into formation, broadcasting their pirate network, and then disperse, escaping detection, only to reform elsewhere," says the group describing their creation. File-Sharing Drone in Action (photo by Claus Langer <http://www.clauslanger.de/> ) picture of a sharing drone <http://torrentfreak.com/images/sharing-drone.jpg> In short the system allows the public to share data with the help of flying drones. Much like the Pirate Box <http://torrentfreak.com/piratebox-takes-file-sharing-off-the-radar-and-offl ine-for-next-to-nothing-120311/> , but one that flies autonomously over the city. "The public can upload files, photos and share data with one another as the drones float above the significant public spaces of the city. The swarm becomes a pirate broadcast network, a mobile infrastructure that passers-by can interact with," the creators explain. One major difference compared to more traditional file-sharing hubs is that it requires a hefty investment. Each of the drones costs 1500 euros to build. Not a big surprise, considering the hardware that's needed to keep these pirate hubs in the air. "Each one is powered by 2x 2200mAh LiPo batteries. The lift is provided by 4x Roxxy Brushless Motors that run off a GPS flight control board. Also on deck are altitude sensors and gyros that keep the flight stable. They all talk to a master control system through XBee wireless modules," Young told TorrentFreak. "These all sit on a 10mm x 10mm aluminum frame and are wrapped in a vacuum formed aerodynamic cowling. The network is broadcast using various different hardware setups ranging from Linux gumstick modules, wireless routers and USB sticks for file storage." For Young and his crew this is just the beginning. With proper financial support they hope to build more drones and increase the range they can cover. "We are planning on scaling up the system by increasing broadcast range and building more drones for the flock. We are also building in other systems like autonomous battery change bases. We are looking for funding and backers to assist us in scaling up the system," he told us. Those who see the drones in action (video below) will notice that they're not just practical. The creative and artistic background of the group shines through, with the choreography performed by the drones perhaps even more stunning than the sharing component. "When the audience interacts with the drones they glow with vibrant colors, they break formation, they are called over and their flight pattern becomes more dramatic and expressive," the group explains. Besides the artistic value, the drones can also have other use cases than being a "pirate hub." For example, they can serve as peer-to-peer communications support for protesters and activists in regions where Internet access is censored. Either way, whether it's Hollywood or a dictator, there will always be groups that have a reason to shoot the machines down. But let's be honest, who would dare to destroy such a beautiful piece of art? # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime(a)kein.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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[drone-list] DHS FOIA on Privacy from Drones
by Al Mac Wow 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

DHS (US Dept of Homeland Security) came out TODAY with a FOIA document internally dated Sep 2012, regarding Privacy from Drones. http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/foia/working-group-to-sa feguard-privacy-civil-rights-and-civil-liberties-in-the-departments-use-and- support-of-unmanned-aerial-systems-uas-s1-information-memorandum-09142012.pd f I started subscribing to news of OTHER people FOIA regarding drones. Occasionally I see some very interesting info there. I downloaded it, naming my copy "DHS Drone Privacy 2012 Sep" (I name based on institution, topic, vintage) I don't see any copyright notice, limiting re-distribution. It is 3 pages, 221 k, informing us about a working group led by: * CRCL = Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties * PRIV = Privacy Office * Alphabet soup of organizations within DHS which use drones, or plan to use them. There are some unfamiliar acronyms there, which I will be working on finding translations for. This working group will address privacy, civil rights, and civil liberties issues, with drones, which people have been screaming at DHS for years to address. They just thought this would be a good idea to do. I suspect some of the screaming directed via Congress may have something to do with the timing. CRCL and PRIV are aware of * CBP (US Customs and Border Patrol) allegedly operates approx 10 Predator drones at and along US borders. * USCG (US Coast Guard) helps train CBP, and is evaluating their own future drone acquisition. * S&T (I am guessing this refers to Science and Technology Directorate of DHS) which oversees a partnership with local law enforcement and first responder drone usage. o I learned about S&T of DHS at http://www.gizmag.com/homeland-security-predictions/24452/ They do not believe that DHS has any other active drone programs, but recognize things may change in the future. I will be checking my notes, because that list looks awful small. * DHS = US Department of Homeland Security <http://www.dhs.gov/> [1] o Some US states also have departments with the same name. o DHS is one of the largest departments in the US government. Its mandate includes: * Anti-Terrorism Domestic * Border protection * Citizenship * Critical Infrastructure protection * Cyber Security * Emergency Management - FEMA * Immigration * Ready dot Gov * Transportation Security Agency (TSA) * US Coast Guard * US Secret Service, which protects the Currency, President, and other key officials o DHS is one of several federal departments and agencies supposedly flying drones over US National Air Space (NAS).[2] Al Mac (WOW) = Alister William Macintyre _____ From: U.S. Department of Homeland Security [mailto:departmentofhomelandsecurity@govdelivery.com] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:08 PM To: macwheel99(a)wowway.com Subject: DHS FOIA Published September 12, 2012 Working Group to Safeguard Privacy, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties in the Department's Use and Support of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) Memorandum February 21, 2013 DHS Privacy Office banner <http://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/USDHS/2012/11/13399 3/143870/pobannerfinal-72dpi_original_crop.jpg> New DHS FOIA Document You are subscribed to receive new DHS FOIA documents when they are issued by the DHS Privacy Office. Today we published the DHS FOIA Published September 14, 2012 Working Group to Safeguard Privacy, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties in the Department's Use and Support of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) Information Memorandum. DHS FOIA Published September 14, 2012 Working Group to Safeguard Privacy, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties in the Department's Use and Support of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) Memorandum ============= <http://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/stock/2011/03/12307 /new-main-hr_original.gif?1308456128> Learn more about our mission Find a wealth of privacy-related information on our <http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkP TIwMTMwMjIxLjE1ODIzNjMxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDEzMDIyMS4xNTgyMzYzM SZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3NDExNTc5JmVtYWlsaWQ9bWFjd2hlZWw5OUB3b3d3Y XkuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1tYWN3aGVlbDk5QHdvd3dheS5jb20mZmw9JmV4dHJhPU11bHRpdmFyaWF0Z UlkPSYmJg==&&&101&&&http://www.dhs.gov/topic/privacy> website. 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You will need the user name and password you receive from the list moderator in monthly reminders. Should you need immediate assistance, please contact the list moderator. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [cryptography] OTR and deniability
by Meredith L. Patterson 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Marsh Ray <marsh(a)extendedsubset.com> wrote: > On 07/14/2011 01:59 PM, Steven Bellovin wrote: > >> Put another way, the goal in a trial is not a mathematical proof, >> it's proof to a certain standard of evidence, based on many different >> pieces of data. Life isn't a cryptographic protocol. >> > > The interesting thing in this case though is that the person providing the > plaintext log file is: > > a) a convicted felon > b) working for the investigators/prosecutors (since before the purported > log file's creation?) > c) himself skilled in hacking > Those bullet points are far more likely to be brought up at trial than any of the security properties of OTR. Defense counsel has to weigh the benefits of presenting evidence -- will it get some point across, or will it be lost on the judge/jury? I submit that a military judge or a panel of commissioned officers (and maybe some enlisted personnel) is unlikely to appreciate the finer mathematical points, and more likely to fall back on "but there are these logs, right there, and the feds say they're authentic." The defense has plenty of Lamo's own documented actions to use to undermine his credibility. There's much to be said for "baffle them with bullshit" (not that there's necessarily any bullshit even involved), but a jury that doesn't understand an argument is likely to dismiss it as bullshit. Best, --mlp _______________________________________________ cryptography mailing list cryptography(a)randombit.net http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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