July 2018 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: BGP (in)security makes the AP wire
by Steven Bellovin 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

On May 9, 2010, at 12:30 47PM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 10:54:46AM -0500, Larry Sheldon wrote: > >> And when I drive someplace, I do indeed go by the signs I see, which are >> not erected by a central authority, as I move along. (I don't have a >> route from here to Fairbanks, Alaska, but my MCA shows one from here to >> Council Bluffs, Iowa, and from there there are several I might use, >> depending on what signs I see ("Warning, I29 N closed at Mondamin due to >> flooding") when I get there.) > > Speaking about that, is anyone currently seeing geographic (local-knowledge) > routing and authorityless address (=position) allocation from coordinates > (e.g. WGS 84 position fixes) in any realistic time frame as a major component > on the Internet? > > Presumably, one could prototype something simple and cheap at L2 level > with WGS 84->MAC (about ~m^2 resolution), custom switch firmware and GBIC > for longish (1-70 km) distances, but without a mesh it won't work. It was discussed during the IPng days. My view at the time -- and my view today -- is that there's an inherent conflict between that and multiple competitive ISPs. Suppose there's an IP address corresponding to 40.75013351 west longitude, 73.99700928 north latitude (my building, according to Google maps). To which ISP should it be handed for delivery? Must all ISPs in a given area peer with each other? --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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[btns] WG Action: Conclusion of Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns)
by IESG Secretary 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

The Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns) in the Security Area has concluded. The IESG contact person is Tim Polk. The mailing list will remain active. This working group is closed after successfully completing the most important items from the charter. The mailing list will be kept open for possible questions and discussions around BTNS. In particular, this mailing list is the preferred venue for discussion of any BTNS API documents. If drafted, the BTNS API documents will be submitted using the individual submission process. The ADs would like to thank everyone who has been involved in the BTNS specification work, the chairs, Sam Hartman who was the responsible AD when the BTNS working group was formed, and various reviewers who helped greatly improve the BTNS specifications. _______________________________________________ btns mailing list btns(a)ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/btns ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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[btns] WG Action: Conclusion of Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns)
by IESG Secretary 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

The Better-Than-Nothing Security (btns) in the Security Area has concluded. The IESG contact person is Tim Polk. The mailing list will remain active. This working group is closed after successfully completing the most important items from the charter. The mailing list will be kept open for possible questions and discussions around BTNS. In particular, this mailing list is the preferred venue for discussion of any BTNS API documents. If drafted, the BTNS API documents will be submitted using the individual submission process. The ADs would like to thank everyone who has been involved in the BTNS specification work, the chairs, Sam Hartman who was the responsible AD when the BTNS working group was formed, and various reviewers who helped greatly improve the BTNS specifications. _______________________________________________ btns mailing list btns(a)ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/btns ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [FoRK] NarcoGliders, was: Re: Narco Subs - The Triumph of Capitalism
by Damien Morton 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Magnesium seawater battery - its pretty much bronze age techmology - http://www-odp.tamu.edu/publications/191_IR/chap_03/c3_5.htm <http://www-odp.tamu.edu/publications/191_IR/chap_03/c3_5.htm>Can melt down alloy car wheels for a start. Otherwise AZ61 alloy is hardly a controlled substance. Only other thing you need is twisted wire titanium brushes with carbon fiber bristles. Easily made in some South Asian sweatshop, with barely a record kept. The electronics is the tricky stuff, but once you get the first one working, replicating to 1000s is easy enough. Again, south asian sweatshops, or buying a middle tier chinese RC toy maker isnt out of reach for the South American combinas. On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Stephen Williams <sdw(a)lig.net> wrote: > Really 'game over' if our southern businessmen build NarcoGliders... > No external propellers or emissions of any kind, potential for total > silence, super efficient long range, easy antenna raising, great depth... > > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/5-insanely-cool-robots-youll-desperate… > > How many of these have been sold in South America? > > Anyway, go iRobot! > > On 4/2/11 6:43 PM, Stephen Williams wrote: > >> On 4/2/11 6:08 PM, Damien Morton wrote: >> >>> When these guys get really smart and start churning out thousands bathtub >>> sized robosubs powered by magnesium seawater batteries, it truly is >>> game-over. Until then, its WW2 tech all the way. >>> >>> What the fuck do you do when invaded by swarms of 1000s of silent >>> robosubs >>> bearing 50kg of cocaine, swimming up your rivers, your drainage outlets, >>> your harbours, and your god-damned toilets. >>> >> >> You change the economics... If they're delivering fresh papaya and >> coffee, it wouldn't be so bad would it? ;-) And we could send back iPads >> to be good recyclers. If you don't change the economics, then you have to >> live with the fact that you're always going to be outnumbered and outsmarted >> by the SillyNarco Valley "startups" of the _deep_ South. >> > > sdw > > _______________________________________________ > FoRK mailing list > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork > _______________________________________________ FoRK mailing list http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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Re: [FoRK] NarcoGliders, was: Re: Narco Subs - The Triumph of Capitalism
by Damien Morton 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

Magnesium seawater battery - its pretty much bronze age techmology - http://www-odp.tamu.edu/publications/191_IR/chap_03/c3_5.htm <http://www-odp.tamu.edu/publications/191_IR/chap_03/c3_5.htm>Can melt down alloy car wheels for a start. Otherwise AZ61 alloy is hardly a controlled substance. Only other thing you need is twisted wire titanium brushes with carbon fiber bristles. Easily made in some South Asian sweatshop, with barely a record kept. The electronics is the tricky stuff, but once you get the first one working, replicating to 1000s is easy enough. Again, south asian sweatshops, or buying a middle tier chinese RC toy maker isnt out of reach for the South American combinas. On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Stephen Williams <sdw(a)lig.net> wrote: > Really 'game over' if our southern businessmen build NarcoGliders... > No external propellers or emissions of any kind, potential for total > silence, super efficient long range, easy antenna raising, great depth... > > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/5-insanely-cool-robots-youll-desperate… > > How many of these have been sold in South America? > > Anyway, go iRobot! > > On 4/2/11 6:43 PM, Stephen Williams wrote: > >> On 4/2/11 6:08 PM, Damien Morton wrote: >> >>> When these guys get really smart and start churning out thousands bathtub >>> sized robosubs powered by magnesium seawater batteries, it truly is >>> game-over. Until then, its WW2 tech all the way. >>> >>> What the fuck do you do when invaded by swarms of 1000s of silent >>> robosubs >>> bearing 50kg of cocaine, swimming up your rivers, your drainage outlets, >>> your harbours, and your god-damned toilets. >>> >> >> You change the economics... If they're delivering fresh papaya and >> coffee, it wouldn't be so bad would it? ;-) And we could send back iPads >> to be good recyclers. If you don't change the economics, then you have to >> live with the fact that you're always going to be outnumbered and outsmarted >> by the SillyNarco Valley "startups" of the _deep_ South. >> > > sdw > > _______________________________________________ > FoRK mailing list > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork > _______________________________________________ FoRK mailing list http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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None
by None 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

1at9tm1Nu3Nl3oW0 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:42:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from hq.pro-ns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80dcTW026480 for <cypherpunks-list(a)hq.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from owner-cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id hB80dcCZ026479 for cypherpunks-list; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: hq.pro-ns.net: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net using -f Received: from hq.pro-ns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80daTW026468 for <cypherpunks-forward(a)ds.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cpunks(a)hq.pro-ns.net) Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id hB80dabs026465 for cypherpunks-forward(a)ds.pro-ns.net; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from slack.lne.com (gw.lne.com [209.157.136.81]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80dQom026459 for <cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cpunk(a)lne.com) Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB80dMTf003847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0800 Received: (from cpunk@localhost) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB80dMDV003842 for cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0800 Received: from ak47.algebra.com (algebra.com [216.82.116.230]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB80dGTe003829 for <cpunk(a)lne.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:19 -0800 Received: from ak47.algebra.com (cpunks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB80dGLG031103; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -0600 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id hB80dGqU031100; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -0600 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB80dELG031089 for <cypherpunks(a)algebra.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:15 -0600 Received: from user-0ccetrj.cable.mindspring.com ([24.199.119.115] helo=JY09) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AT9Qg-0005IG-00 for cypherpunks(a)algebra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:39:14 -0500 X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:37:26 -0800 To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> Old-Subject: Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0312071754510.29758-100000(a)greeves.mfn.org> References: <CD94B950-290C-11D8-9AB2-000A956B4C74(a)got.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <E1AT9Qg-0005IG-00(a)tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 X-Algebra: <A HREF=http://www.algebra.com>Algebra</A> Approved: LISTMEMBER CPUNK Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net Precedence: bulk ----- And here's Algebra's substantial verbosity:

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None
by None 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

1at8UH24t3Nl3pv0 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ak47.algebra.com (majordom@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB7LmNLG009486 for <cypherpunks-outgoing(a)ak47.algebra.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:48:23 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id hB7LmNXw009485 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:48:23 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: ak47.algebra.com: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM using -f Received: from slack.lne.com (gw.lne.com [209.157.136.81]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB7LmGLG009442 for <cypherpunks(a)ak47.algebra.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:48:19 -0600 Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LmDTf002878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <cypherpunks(a)ak47.algebra.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:48:13 -0800 Received: (from cpunk@localhost) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB7LmDtF002872 for cypherpunks(a)ak47.algebra.com; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:48:13 -0800 Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LlTTf002845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <cypherpunks-goingout345(a)slack.lne.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:47:29 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB7LlS6O002844 for cypherpunks-goingout345; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:47:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: slack.lne.com: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks(a)lne.com using -f Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031207131538.02880c28(a)idiom.com> X-Sender: wcs(a)idiom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 13:47:12 -0800 To: declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart(a)pobox.com> Old-Subject: Re: Larry Lessig on ending anonymity through "identity escrow" Cc: cypherpunks(a)lne.com In-Reply-To: <7564DC7B-2837-11D8-9AB2-000A956B4C74(a)got.net> References: <20031206015356.GC4450(a)clueinc.net> <6.0.0.22.2.20031205092507.02d7d7f0(a)mail.well.com> <3EFD45E8-277E-11D8-9AB2-000A956B4C74(a)got.net> <8A858E4E-2785-11D8-9AB2-000A956B4C74(a)got.net> <20031206015356.GC4450(a)clueinc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: Larry Lessig on ending anonymity through "identity escrow" X-Algebra: <A HREF=http://www.algebra.com>Algebra</A> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Precedence: bulk X-List-Admin: ichudov(a)algebra.com ----- Lne's modest offering:

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None
by None 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

1at8NF1dj3Nl3qU0 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:58:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7NQwTf003380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <cypherpunks-goingout345(a)slack.lne.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:26:58 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB7NQwYx003379 for cypherpunks-goingout345; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:26:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: slack.lne.com: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks(a)lne.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <20031207212546.GZ5783(a)leitl.org> References: <0de0afc1fce3c9d7e4597f3fcc1ddc26(a)dizum.com> <20031207212546.GZ5783(a)leitl.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <CD94B950-290C-11D8-9AB2-000A956B4C74(a)got.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> Subject: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:26:37 -0800 To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)lne.com Precedence: bulk -----

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None
by None 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

I found the FTU's recent report on concealable weapons (http://LB.wnd.com/FBI-weapons.pdf) interesting, but find that it omitted a few possibilities, viz: 1. The pop-top steel lid on a can e.g., of catfood forms a sharp edge when removed. (I have a permenant scar on a finger attesting to this.) If half the disc were grasped in a cloth it could be more effective than several of the items you list. 2. Similarly, the steel lid on e.g., a tuna can forms a sharp (and flatter, and slightly more rigid) edge when removed with a can opening tool. A can opening tool can be very small, e.g., the military-style can openers, which by itself is not dangerous. Again, any piece of cloth forms a graspable handle on the resulting sharp-edged disc. 3. Even a beverage can, e.g., from a beer purchased in flight, can be ripped into a sharp edge, although the thinness of the (typically soft aluminum) metal makes this less effective than the above. 4. The large knitting (crochet) needles which I believe the TSA admits could be filed into a sharp point, producing a spike as effective as some you list. As these are typically aluminum, abrading them into a point would not be difficult. 5. It is possible that a skilled knife maker could chip a glass bottle into a knife while in the restroom, producing something comparable to the obsidian knife you list. The production process might be noisy however, unlike the above. Comment, which you will no doubt ignore: Given the facility with which weapons are improvised or concealed, it might be a better idea to stop motivating the actors, as distasteful as that might be to some in power. Although some will enjoy the Israel-like police state that foreign entanglement will otherwise drag the US into, and some -perhaps your- careers might even advance faster under such conditions. Have a nice day A. Citizen

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None
by None 06 Jul '18

06 Jul '18

1at9tm1Nu3Nl3oW0 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:42:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from hq.pro-ns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80dcTW026480 for <cypherpunks-list(a)hq.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from owner-cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id hB80dcCZ026479 for cypherpunks-list; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: hq.pro-ns.net: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net using -f Received: from hq.pro-ns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80daTW026468 for <cypherpunks-forward(a)ds.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cpunks(a)hq.pro-ns.net) Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id hB80dabs026465 for cypherpunks-forward(a)ds.pro-ns.net; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from slack.lne.com (gw.lne.com [209.157.136.81]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80dQom026459 for <cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cpunk(a)lne.com) Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB80dMTf003847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0800 Received: (from cpunk@localhost) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB80dMDV003842 for cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0800 Received: from ak47.algebra.com (algebra.com [216.82.116.230]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB80dGTe003829 for <cpunk(a)lne.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:19 -0800 Received: from ak47.algebra.com (cpunks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB80dGLG031103; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -0600 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id hB80dGqU031100; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -0600 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB80dELG031089 for <cypherpunks(a)algebra.com>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:15 -0600 Received: from user-0ccetrj.cable.mindspring.com ([24.199.119.115] helo=JY09) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AT9Qg-0005IG-00 for cypherpunks(a)algebra.com; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:39:14 -0500 X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:37:26 -0800 To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> Old-Subject: Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0312071754510.29758-100000(a)greeves.mfn.org> References: <CD94B950-290C-11D8-9AB2-000A956B4C74(a)got.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <E1AT9Qg-0005IG-00(a)tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 X-Algebra: <A HREF=http://www.algebra.com>Algebra</A> Approved: LISTMEMBER CPUNK Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)ds.pro-ns.net Precedence: bulk ----- And here's Algebra's substantial verbosity:

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