April 2004 - cypherpunks-legacy

current status of cypherpunks, tim may, etc. ??
by Joe Schmoe 12 Apr '04

12 Apr '04

I wasn't paying attention when the lne node went away, and was a bit lost in my CP mailing list subscription for a few months... I subscribed to minder, but it was a _joke_ in terms of spam and bounces and all sorts of lameness in my cypherpunks folder _and_ my inbox. Further, I noticed I was no longer seeing any posts by Tim May - I might have been missing others as well, but he was conspicuously absent. So, I have unsubbed from minder and subbed to al-qeada.net - hopefully they will be closer to LNEs level of anti-spam excellence ... questions: 1. any comments on this level of spam and bounces, etc., I saw from minder - does al-qeada use a more LNE-like processor ? 2. Was tim may being filtered from minder, or is he just gone now ? thanks. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

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Re: current status of cypherpunks, tim may, etc. ??
by Tyler Durden 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

"Tim regularly and thoroughly jumped up my ass about my various ideological impurities" Well, this was fairly annoying and I think made it harder to dig out the gold from Tim May's poop. And in a way, this was self-defeating from a topple-the-state point of view. My point was (and sometimes is) that our beliefs about Economics, capitalism, and politics are to some extent irrelevant in the light of a techno-determinist point of view (Riad Wahbi pointed this out a few posts ago). In that context, raising some questions about some of the accepted notions about capitalism wasn't (for me at least) necessarily an attempt to "fight" the crypto-anarchic view/goal/partyline May seemed bent on establishing, but rather to suggest that even groups or individuals with ostenibly very different goals might be able to embrace a crypto-approach towards achieving their aims. In other words, it should be considered a good thing if leftists or liberals or Jihadists utilize well-formed crypto...that can actually only accelerate whatever's down the pike. And opening the discussions up a bit for such not only keeps away the philosophical inbreeding of some lists, it might actually start something amongst adherents of that point of view. And hell, if there's a way to maintain a left-wing stance without that eventually resulting in me having to put in 14 hour days in People's Shoe Factory Number 14, then more power to 'em....I think it's probably too late even for some 21st Century hyper-Stalin to sieze control of both wireline and wireless internet now... but again, who gives a crap. Crypto's probably already passed the point of no return, no matter what kind of State George Dubya continues to unleash on us. -TD So...how many years before it's possible for an online group to anonymously fun, order up and drop-ship weapons on a besieged people trying to maintain their national sovereignty? >From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net >Subject: Re: current status of cypherpunks, tim may, etc. ?? >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:40:50 -0400 > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >At 3:37 AM -0400 4/11/04, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > >Apparently he's still to be found posting on various Usenet groups. > >RAH knows more about this than I do. > >Obviously, Tim was on usenet long before he, Eric Hughes and John >Gilmore started this list on toad.com after the first physical >cypherpunks meeting 11 years ago last fall. > >Because some spam-defense techniques require the absence of usable >email addresses, and because Tim has changed his addresses more than >once over the last few years, you can go on groups.google.com and >just search for "Tim May" in the author field -- don't forget the >quote marks -- and see everything he's posting now. He's usually in >the local Bay Area groups, and on Misc.Survivalism, though I haven't >looked in about a month or so. As we just saw in a previous forward >from usenet, most of the stuff he posts there makes me cringe, like >his later stuff here, but, obviously, Tim's as smart and as creative >as he's ever been. > > >Even though when I showed up here, 10 years ago sometime in May to >learn how to do cash transactions on the internet, Tim regularly and >thoroughly jumped up my ass about my various ideological impurities >and deep flaws in my character :-) (it was ever thus, I got used to >it, and I hopefully learned to give back as good as I got), there >was, invariably, something useful in almost all of his posts here. > >This, in spite of, to me at least, the increasing preponderance of >deliberately provocative cruft he trolled around here, presumably in >boredom, just to piss people off. > >Obviously, though more civil, and, frankly, productive, this list >isn't the same since Tim left, not the least because this list was, >for all intents and purposes, his creation, by dint of the sheer >amount of time he put into it, if nothing else. > > >As most people here know, I've long been interested in influence and >reputation, and I once introduced Tim at a Mac_Crypto conference in >terms of the magnitude of his influence, which is, frankly, much more >considerable than people really understand. Tim thanked me for a >"nice introduction", and, while I was being quite cordial, this being >one of the few times we got along, "nice" was pretty orthogonal to my >point. > >Tim May, whether he likes it or not -- understands it completely or >not -- has literally invented, discovered, a new form of emergent >social order. More properly, in learning that property can be >controlled by cryptography in a manner *independent* of biometric >identity, he was the first person to understand that the control and >market-auctioned transfer of property could be achieved without the >need of the force-monopoly of the state. The result is something >which is, by definition, anarchy. > >Tim called it crypto-anarchy, since it required the use of strong >cryptography on public networks to happen, but I don't think even he >understood just how far the idea could go. His concern was more >immediate. Like freedom, privacy is an inherent good, and anything >that maximizes both privacy and freedom maximizes the good in the >world. All the structural possibilities that resulted were just >gravy. It's probable that his hatred of the state came first, long >before his discovery of cryptography as a means to that end, but the >effect is the same whether, like me, the crypto changed his opinion >of the state, or, as was probably Tim's case, his opinion of the >state led to his discovery of crypto as a means to get what he >wanted. > > >One way or the other, Tim and other early cypherpunks really did >discover a way to make physically real the yearnings of libertarians, >anarcho-capitalists, and other free people throughout the ages, by >using, for the first time in more than a thousand years, technology >and markets instead of manifestos, politics, philosophy, or, in the >case of libertarians, somehow-constrained government and monopolistic >force. > >I think that this didn't happen fast enough for Tim, and he devolved >to hoping for some disaster to force his new world into being, and >failing even that, he began to advocate more, I suppose, >"traditional", methods of getting what he wanted: those involving >force, without regard, unfortunately, to reason, much less economics. > >It was upsetting, infuriating, to watch, but, after a while, we >realized that Tim was, after all, a free man. He could do what he >wanted with his time and resources, and it wasn't our right to tell >him to do otherwise, no matter how negative our opinions were of his >behavior. > >As for the more personally repellant of his beliefs, we have to >remember that he advocated something that most of us have come around >to over time, something that many anarchocapitalists have talked >about before Tim May did, that discrimination in transactions and >hiring of *any* kind is a *right* of free people in markets, foolish >consequences or not, and that it's only wrong when governments force >that discrimination onto everyone, like they do in Jim Crow, Nazi >Anti-Jewry, or Apartheid laws. > > >Tim's collapse from that rationally-derived belief in the economic >necessity for freedom, including individual discrimination, into the >language of "Aryanism", and the advocacy of mob-violence, (something >that is guaranteed, paradoxically, to degenerate into >state-controlled force in in almost all historical cases, speaking of >chimneys), again paradoxically, only puts his original point into >even starker relief. > >Personally, like his coming to cryptography because of his hate of >the state, I think his now-overt racism emerges from his (*claimed*, >remember; he's said that "Tim May" is a pseudonym more than once here >;-)) Virginia upbringing, and that his adoption of anarcho-capitalism >as a political philosophy might have been the result of some inherent >racism, but that's just armchair psycho-babble voodoo on my part. The >point is, his opinions in that regard are now morally repellant, and >that's a shame, because before he got to this point where his anger >overtook his capacity to reason, he was, in fact, making sense. > > >So, to me, at least, whatever Tim and company did before or after >doesn't matter so much as what they did here on cypherpunks in the >early days. Lots of people's lives (mine, for instance... :-)) >auger-in after what others consider to be their most memorable and >productive accomplishments. Even a man's *own* opinions of the events >of his life change over time, so who knows what Tim thinks about his >time here, and whether it was worth it or not. > > >Nonetheless, as Phillip K. Dick said once, reality doesn't change >when you change your mind. > >If it all works, if it has a basis in economic fact, that people in >general get more stuff cheaper and live longer and happier by being >completely free of *any* government in their lives, and they get to >that point by using strong cryptography on public internetworks, Tim >May may well be remembered for the rest of history as having >discovered the substrate of a new society. Something, I believe, on >the order of the advent of agriculture and cities, and lots of us >here were around to watch the initial promulgation of those ideas, >even if we were not around (in my case, at least) to witness their >actual discovery. > >And, maybe, some of us will be around not just to *watch* it happen, >but to *make* it happen as well. > >Without sending a "bunch of useless eaters" "up the chimneys", as Mr. >May seems to fondly hope for, these days. > >Cheers, >RAH > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGP 8.0.3 > >iQA/AwUBQHmfPsPxH8jf3ohaEQJ78gCfeKTbsWbqcWS+ENaxpJx8HrJPduIAoOm7 >vN3XsdF+59pwEA1z6EOyzC/3 >=wVkf >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/dir…

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Keyring Camcorder to replace your Minox
by Bill Stewart 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

http://tech.tnir.org/archives/000540.html http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1559884,00.asp Tired of that old klunky Minox B Spy Camera? Want something newer, smaller, and more versatile? Need a speaking-engagement bribe for David Brin? Looks like there's finally something to do the job (or will be once they actually ship the things in commercial volume around May and not just review copies for magazines...) The Philips Key109 Key Ring Camcorder is a USB frob with 128MB of RAM, 2 megapixel camera for videos or stills, MP3 player, headphone jack, and remote control. I'm surprised they didn't give it more RAM, but perhaps they got into price problems. The user interface is apparently all in the remote control part, which is a bit odd but may be useful for some things. ---- Bill Stewart bill.stewart(a)pobox.com

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BBC: File-sharing to bypass censorship
by Eugen Leitl 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3611227.stm File-sharing to bypass censorship By Tracey Logan BBC Go Digital presenter The net could be humming with news, rather pop, swappers By the year 2010, file-sharers could be swapping news rather than music, eliminating censorship of any kind. This is the view of the man who helped kickstart the concept of peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing, Cambridge University's Professor Ross Anderson. In his vision, people around the world would post stories via anonymous P2P services like those used to swap songs. They would cover issues currently ignored by the major news services, said Prof Anderson. "Currently, only news that's reckoned to be of interest to Americans and Western Europeans will be syndicated because that's where the money is," he told the BBC World Service programme, Go Digital. "But if something happens in Peru that's of interest to viewers in China and Japan, it won't get anything like the priority for syndication. "If you can break the grip of the news syndication services and allow the news collector to talk to the radio station or local newspaper then you can have much more efficient communications." 'Impossible to censor' To enable this, Prof Anderson proposes a new and improved version of Usenet, the internet news service. If there's material that everyone agrees is wicked, like child pornography, then it's possible to track it down and close it down Ross Anderson, Cambridge University But what of fears that the infrastructure that allows such ad hoc news networks to grow might also be abused by criminals and terrorists? Prof Anderson believes those fears are overstated. He argued that web watchdogs like the Internet Watch Foundation, which monitors internet-based child abuse, would provide the necessary policing functions. This would require a high level of international agreement to be effective. "The effect of peer-to-peer networks will be to make censorship difficult, if not impossible," said Prof Anderson. "If there's material that everyone agrees is wicked, like child pornography, then it's possible to track it down and close it down. But if there's material that only one government says is wicked then, I'm sorry, but that's their tough luck". Political obstacles Commenting on Prof Anderson's ideas, technology analyst Bill Thompson welcomed the idea of new publishing tools that will weaken the grip on news of major news organisations. Such P2P systems, he said, would give everybody a voice and allow personal testimonies to come out. But the technology that makes those publishing tools accessible to everyone and sufficiently user-friendly will take longer to develop than Prof Anderson thinks, added Mr Thompson. Prof Anderson's vision underestimates the political obstacles in the way of such developments, he said, and the question of censorship had not been clearly thought through. "Once you build the technology to break censorship, you've broken censorship - even of the things you want censored," said Mr Thompson. "Saying you can then control some parts of it, like images of child abuse, is being wilfully optimistic. And that's something that peer to peer advocates have to face." -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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Altered phone cards?
by Harmon Seaver 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

Anybody heard of this before, or know how it's done? "And "Mr Tanaka" has good reason to be wary. He and his three friends are illegally selling phone cards that have been altered so they can be re-used." http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/671844D1-95C9-4BEF-903C-155B2E948C59… -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!

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Re: On Needing Killing
by Major Variola (ret) 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

At 05:38 AM 4/11/04 -0400, An Metet wrote: >> And the responsibles need killing. > >No, they don't. > >There are two alternative solutions to the problem of restrictions on >information flow, or more generally restrictions on any sort of voluntary >and cooperative activity. One is to use force to fight back, even to >the point of killing the perpetrators. This is what you are advocating >when you say they "need killing". When faced with force, you reply with force when you can. >The other is to evade the restrictions. This does not involve killing, >force, or violence of any sort. Cryptography is an ideal tool for this >purpose. It allows people to communicate and exchange data even when >outsiders want them to stop. Via digital cash they can even contract >together, and buy and sell information and services. BlackNet is intended >to be an example of how this could work. Correct. But the existence of technical means for playing with bits and hiding from oppression does not change the ethics of the material world. When the State's otherwise legitimate monopoly on force is abused the appropriate response is not to hope the oppressors go away. When the Jews were put in the ghettos, an abuse of State force, the appropriate response was more than merely publishing anonymous flyers or mumbling in secret languages. There are times when agents have earned killing. Blacknet is a robust archive for words, immune to force (by State or private actors), but merely words. ----- "How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?" --Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago

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Re: On Needing Killing
by Tyler Durden 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

Eric Cordian wrote... "Can I be the list's new Crusty Retired Engineer now?" Why, did you retire recently? -TD >From: Eric Cordian <emc(a)artifact.psychedelic.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)minder.net >Subject: Re: On Needing Killing >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:58:50 -0700 (PDT) > >Justin writes: > > > With all due respect to the principle of freedom of speech and all that, > > I think that cypherpunks, and people in general, give far too little > > respect to words, as if words are a vague, unimportant, and remote link > > in the chain of causation of acts or failure-to-acts. I don't see > > anything wrong with Orwell's view that words control the future's view > > of history. His certainly have. > >Words depend greatly on context. The meaning of words here on the >Cypherpunks list, is different than their meaning in the New York Times. > >If someone said "up the chimneys with the inner-city welfare mutants" in >the New York Times, there would be mass rioting in the streets. > >I find this with a lot of my stuff that gets taken from this list and >posted in places that I would have written it much differently for, had >those places been its original destination. > >So - what happened to Tim? Can I be the list's new Crusty Retired >Engineer now? > >-- >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" > _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

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On Killing Blaster
by Tyler Durden 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

"When faced with force, you reply with force when you can." Nah. This isn't even true in a fistfight, except when the guy you're fighting is a) significantly smaller than you, and b) less trained. More often than not, if someone attacks you, it's because they either have or perceive themselves to have an overwhelmingly superior force. In such a situation it's often best to run. Barring that, then "soft" methods are by far the best alternative, but soft methods normally require intelligence, or at least the ability to utilize an opponent's force against him (I think I can unequivocally state that I have had the opportunity to test such a principal here on the streets of NYC). And of course, if it's possible to diarm your opponent without actually killing or maiming him, that's sometimes far more appropriate...reference 'Aikido' and remember the unmasked "MasterBlaster". Every once in a while, somebody makes a mistake they eventually regret. As someone said better than myself, Crypto is one little tool in an aresenal against "Men with Guns"...in the end Men With Guns will probably try to shoot away bits, but it's not going to work too well. Meanwhile, P2P, WiFi, Crypto,and lots of other stuff will slowly start to chip away at things on the edges, until the core is exposed. -TD >From: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv(a)cdc.gov> >To: "cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks(a)al-qaeda.net> >Subject: Re: On Needing Killing >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:42:58 -0700 > >At 05:38 AM 4/11/04 -0400, An Metet wrote: > >> And the responsibles need killing. > > > >No, they don't. > > > >There are two alternative solutions to the problem of restrictions on > >information flow, or more generally restrictions on any sort of >voluntary > >and cooperative activity. One is to use force to fight back, even to > >the point of killing the perpetrators. This is what you are advocating > > >when you say they "need killing". > >When faced with force, you reply with force when you can. > > >The other is to evade the restrictions. This does not involve killing, > > >force, or violence of any sort. Cryptography is an ideal tool for this > > >purpose. It allows people to communicate and exchange data even when > >outsiders want them to stop. Via digital cash they can even contract > >together, and buy and sell information and services. BlackNet is >intended > >to be an example of how this could work. > >Correct. But the existence of technical means for playing with bits and > >hiding from oppression does not change the ethics of the material world. > >When the State's otherwise legitimate monopoly on force is abused >the appropriate response is not to hope the oppressors go away. > >When the Jews were put in the ghettos, an abuse of State force, >the appropriate response was more than merely publishing anonymous >flyers >or mumbling in secret languages. There are times when agents have >earned killing. > >Blacknet is a robust archive for words, immune to force >(by State or private actors), but merely words. > >----- >"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things >have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to >make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?" >--Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago > > _________________________________________________________________ Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp

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Re: On Needing Killing
by Riad S. Wahby 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

An Metet <anmetet(a)freedom.gmsociety.org> wrote: > This stuff should be Cypherpunks 101. ...along with Assassination Politics. I've always taken "X needs killing" to be a statement to the effect that same had earned himself an AP-style contract, if only such a thing existed. While your point is good, inasmuch as it's important to realize that many illegitimate restrictions on liberty can be circumvented with cpunk technologies, there are other ramifications that are just as meaningful. With widespread adoption of cpunk technologies comes the demonopolization of force, the anonymity necessary for AP-style contract markets, &c. It's inevitable---even if {you, the government, whomever} doesn't like the idea of such uses of cpunk technologies--- that these things will spring up. After all, there will likely be great demand for them, and cpunk tech will have enabled them in just the same way it's enabled circumvention of other restrictions on liberty. It's useful to be reminded what the cpunks will have wrought. Like it or not, "needs killing" is likely to remain a fixture around here. -- Riad Wahby rsw(a)jfet.org MIT VI-2 M.Eng

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VPN VoIP
by Eugen Leitl 11 Apr '04

11 Apr '04

I've been installing a Draytek Vigor 2900 router at work lately, and found a line of models which do VoIP (router with analog phone jacks on them). They also support VPN router-router, and come with DynDNS clients. I thought I've seen VoIP over VPN being mentioned, but I can't find it right now. They're reasonably priced, and have pretty good online support: http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/ I've also been looking at them from vulnerabilities angle, but couldn't find much. Not even which embedded OS they run on. No glaring remote exploit holes yet reported. Everyone has seen http://www.skype.com/download_pda.html right? -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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