June 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

Cypherpunks Mailing List Information Last updated: Sep 12, 2002 This message is also available at http://www.lne.com/cpunk Instructions on unsubscribing from the list can be found below. 0. Introduction The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society. It is not a moderated list (but see exceptions below) and the list operators are not responsible for the list content. Cypherpunks is a distributed mailing list. A subscriber can subscribe to one node of the list and thereby participate on the full list. Each node (called a "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer", although they are not related to anonymous remailers) exchanges messages with the other nodes in addition to sending messages to its subscribers. A message posted to one node will be received by the list subscribers on the other nodes, and vice-versa. 1. Filtering The various CDRs follow different policies on filtering spam and to a lesser extent on modifying messages that go to/from their subscribers. Filtering is done, on nodes that do it, to reduce the huge amount of spam that the cypherpunks list is subjected to. There are three basic flavors of filtering CDRs: "raw", which send all messages to their subscribers. "cooked" CDRs try to eliminate the spam on that's on the regular list by automatically sending only messages that are from cypherpunks list subscribers (on any CDR) or people who are replying to list messages. Finally there are moderated lists, where a human moderator decides which messages from the raw list to pass on to subscribers. 2. Message Modification Message modification policy indicates what modifications, if any, beyond what is needed to operate the CDR are done (most CDRs add a tracking X-loop header on mail posted to their subscribers to prevent mail loops). Message modification usually happens on mail going in or out to each CDR's subscribers. CDRs should not modify mail that they pass from one CDR to the next, but some of them do, and others undo those modifications. 3. Privacy Privacy policy indicates if the list will allow anyone ("open"), or only list members, or no one ("private") , to retrieve the subscribers list. Note that if you post, being on a "private" list doesn't mean much, since your address is now out there. It's really only useful for keeping spammers from harvesting addresses from the list software. Digest mode indicates that the CDR supports digest mode, which is where the posts are batched up into a few large emails. Nodes that support only digest mode are noted. 4. Anonymous posting Cypherpunks encourages anonymous posting. You can use an anonymous remailer: http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html http://anon.efga.org/Remailers http://www.gilc.org/speech/anonymous/remailer.html or you can send posts to the list via cpunks_anon(a)einstein.ssz.com and your mail's headers will be stripped before posting. Note that this doesn't provide complete anonymity since the receiving site will still have log file entries showing the source of the mail (or you have to trust that they delete them). You also will be 'sharing' a reputation with the other entities that post through this alias, and some of them are spammers, so some subscribers will have this alias filtered. 5. Unsubscribing Unsubscribing from the cypherpunks list: Since the list is run from a number of different CDRs, you have to figure out which CDR you are subscribed to. If you don't remember and can't figure it out from the mail headers (hint: the top Received: line should tell you), the easiest way to unsubscribe is to send unsubscribe messages to all the CDRs listed below. How to figure out which CDR you are subscribed to: Get your mail client to show all the headers (Microsoft calls this "internet headers"). Look for the Sender or X-loop headers. The Sender will say something like "Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)lne.com". The X-loop line will say something like "X-Loop: cypherpunks(a)lne.com". Both of these inticate that you are subscribed to the lne.com CDR. If you were subscribed to the algebra CDR, they would have algebra.com in them. Once you have figured out which CDR you're subscribed to, look in the table below to find that CDRs unsubscribe instructions. 6. Lunatics, spammers and nut-cases "I'm subscribed to a filtering CDR yet I still see lots of junk postings". At this writing there are a few sociopaths on the cypherpunks list who are abusing the lists openness by dumping reams of propaganda on the list. The distinction between a spammer and a subscriber is nearly always very clear, but the dictinction between a subscriber who is abusing the list by posting reams of propaganda and a subscriber who is making lots of controversial posts is not clear. Therefore, we tolerate the crap. Subscribers with a low crap tolerance should check out mail filters. Procmail is a good one, although it works on Unix and Unix-like systems only. Eudora also has a capacity for filtering mail, as do many other mail readers. An example procmail recipie is below, you will of course want to make your own decisions on which (ab)users to filter. # mailing lists: # filter all cypherpunks mail into its own cypherspool folder, discarding # mail from loons. All CDRs set their From: line to 'owner-cypherpunks'. # /dev/null is unix for the trash can. :0 * ^From.*owner-cypherpunks@.* { :0: * (^From:.*ravage@ssz\.com.*|\ ^From:.*jchoate@dev.tivoli.com.*|\ ^From:.*mattd@useoz.com|\ ^From:.*proffr11@bigpond.com|\ ^From:.*jei@cc.hut.fi) /dev/null :0: cypherspool } 7. List of current CDRs All commands are sent in the body of mail unless otherwise noted. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Algebra: Operator: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- CCC: Operator: drt(a)un.bewaff.net Subscription: "subscribe [password of your choice]" to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Unsubscription: "unsubscribe <password>" to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Help: "help" to to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Web site: http://koeln.ccc.de/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks Posting address: cypherpunks(a)koeln.ccc.de Filtering policy: This specific node drops messages bigger than 32k and every message with more than 17 recipients or just a line containing "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject. Digest mode: this node is digest-only NNTP: news://koeln.ccc.de/cbone.ml.cypherpunks Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Infonex: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)infonex.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lne: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)lne.com Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to lne CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. messages are demimed (MIME attachments removed) when posted through lne or received by lne CDR subscribers 2. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 3. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.lne.com/cpunk; "info cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Archive: http://archives.abditum.com/cypherpunks/index.html (thanks to Steve Furlong and Len Sassaman) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minder: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)minder.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)minder.net Help: "help" to majordomo(a)minder.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)minder.net Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: private Info: send mail to cypherpunks-info(a)minder.net --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Openpgp: [openpgp seems to have dropped off the end of the world-- it doesn't return anything from sending help queries. Ericm, 8/7/01] Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Help: "help" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)openpgp.net Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ssz: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)ssz.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)ssz.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)ssz.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)ssz.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: Subject line prepended with "CDR:" Reply-to cypherpunks(a)ssz.com added. Privacy policy: open Info: http://www.ssz.com/cdr/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sunder: Subscription: "subscribe" to sunder(a)sunder.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe" to sunder(a)sunder.net Help: "help" to sunder(a)sunder.net Posting address: sunder(a)sunder.net Filtering policy: moderated Message Modification policy: ??? Privacy policy: ??? Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pro-ns: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)pro-ns.net Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to local CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 2. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.pro-ns.net/cpunk

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Slashdot | New AIM Offering "end to end" Encryption (fwd)
by Jim Choate 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/06/08/1547215.shtml?tid=120&tid=126&tid=187… -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Slashdot | Bruce Sterling On Total Information Awareness (fwd)
by Jim Choate 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/06/08/2242250.shtml?tid=158&tid=99 -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: An attack on paypal
by Steven M. Bellovin 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

In message <4.2.2.20030608173129.00a99bb0(a)mail.earthlink.net>, Anne & Lynn Whee ler writes: > >at a recent cybersecurity conference, somebody made the statement that (of >the current outsider, internet exploits, approximately 1/3rd are buffer >overflows, 1/3rd are network traffic containing virus that infects a >machine because of automatic scripting, and 1/3 are social engineering >(convince somebody to divulge information). As far as I know, evesdropping >on network traffic doesn't even show as a blip on the radar screen. One could argue that that's because of https... More seriously, eavesdropping on passwords was a *very* big problem starting in late 1993. Part of the problem was that ISPs then didn't know better than to put NOC workstations on their backbone LANs; when those were compromised, the attackers had wonderfully-placed eavesdropping stations. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb (me) http://www.wilyhacker.com (2nd edition of "Firewalls" book)

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You bought it, Who controls it? [TR Article]
by Major Variola (ret.) 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

article by Edward Tenner, Technology review, June 2003 p61-64 Also an article on "deceipt detector" p67-69 about using IR reflectivity of your frontal lobes to detect deceipt. Sort of a polygraph on steroids. (sorry, only cites, not URLs this time)

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SIGINT planes vs. schizophrenic mapping
by Tyler Durden 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

Oh, I forgot their might be some other purpose for AWAC-type mapping of an urban area. Although it's not too well known, McDonalds and other fast-food franchises actually have state-monitored radio-frequency 'beacons'. These beacons transmit at a special frequency that the brains of schizophrenics are very sensitive to, and that draws schizophrenics like flies. And if you've seen an inner-city McDonalds full of homeless and assorted schizos, its either because their transmitter has drifted out of spec, or they've deliberated boosted it up to increase sales. So one purpose of those AWACs is obviously to map the fields of such transmitters. And its not the licensed ones they're worried about...imagine some 'terrorist' or other troublemaker getting one of those things and then cranking it up near some big political meeting, like G4 or whatever. (It's apparently happened on several occasions...apparently Woodstock was actually a pre-cmmmercial military test of the thing.) Anyone know the frequency of that device? I think it it's the megahertz region, but don't quote me. -TD _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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CIA spies shun computers
by Steve Schear 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

Old technology dominates at the CIA In the movies, spies and intelligence agents are the ones with the cool gadgets and state-of-the-art equipment, but their real life counterparts are far behind. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2965620.stm "A Jobless Recovery is like a Breadless Sandwich." -- Steve Schear

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Maybe It's Snake Oil All the Way Down
by Scott Guthery 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

Hello, Rich ... When I drill down on the many pontifications made by computer security and cryptography experts all I find is given wisdom. Maybe the reason that folks roll their own is because as far as they can see that's what everyone does. Roll your own then whip out your dick and start swinging around just like the experts. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right places. I wade through papers from the various academic cryptography groups, I hit the bibliographies regularly, I watch the newgroups, and I follow the patent literature. After you blow the smoke away, there's always an "assume a can opener" assumption. The only thing that really differentiates the experts from the naifs is the amount of smoke. Now I'm certainly not arguing that given wisdom and hard experience have nothing to contribute but they aren't substitutes for either mathematical or even statistical certainty. And I do note in passing that their history of delivering fundamental truth would counsel having a backup plan particularly when it comes to the family jewels. Cheers, Scott -----Original Message----- -----Original Message----- From: Rich Salz [mailto:rsalz@datapower.com] Sent: Fri 5/30/2003 9:26 PM To: Eric Rescorla Cc: Bill Stewart; cypherpunks; cryptography(a)metzdowd.com Subject: Re: Nullsoft's WASTE communication system > It's utterly baffling to me why people like this choose to design > their own thing rather than just using SSL. Totally agree. At this point in time, if it's a TCP based protocol and it isn't built on SSL/TLS, it should pretty much be treated as snake oil, I'd say. Perhaps some kind of evangelism is needed. /r$ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)metzdowd.com

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Signs from God
by J.A. Terranson 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

On Sun, 8 Jun 2003, The Messiah comes wrote: [lots of pesudo-religous bullshit elided] > Everyone who doesn't call Mankind into Paradise has got at least the same > much Guilt and Dirt at putting like Adolf Hitler an will be punished just > as hard. That means Hell forever:Final Solution (Endloesung) Hmmm.. I get to invoke Godwin on the very first email he sends... > Signed The Apostle Abraham cradle of mankind >From reconstituted DNA no doubt. > Abraham3(a)directbox.com -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin(a)mfn.org

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FindLaw's Writ - Dean: Missing Weapons Of Mass Destruction (fwd)
by Jim Choate 08 Jun '03

08 Jun '03

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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