April 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

Cypherpunks Mailing List Information Last updated: Sep 12, 2002 This message is also available at http://www.lne.com/cpunk Instructions on unsubscribing from the list can be found below. 0. Introduction The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society. It is not a moderated list (but see exceptions below) and the list operators are not responsible for the list content. Cypherpunks is a distributed mailing list. A subscriber can subscribe to one node of the list and thereby participate on the full list. Each node (called a "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer", although they are not related to anonymous remailers) exchanges messages with the other nodes in addition to sending messages to its subscribers. A message posted to one node will be received by the list subscribers on the other nodes, and vice-versa. 1. Filtering The various CDRs follow different policies on filtering spam and to a lesser extent on modifying messages that go to/from their subscribers. Filtering is done, on nodes that do it, to reduce the huge amount of spam that the cypherpunks list is subjected to. There are three basic flavors of filtering CDRs: "raw", which send all messages to their subscribers. "cooked" CDRs try to eliminate the spam on that's on the regular list by automatically sending only messages that are from cypherpunks list subscribers (on any CDR) or people who are replying to list messages. Finally there are moderated lists, where a human moderator decides which messages from the raw list to pass on to subscribers. 2. Message Modification Message modification policy indicates what modifications, if any, beyond what is needed to operate the CDR are done (most CDRs add a tracking X-loop header on mail posted to their subscribers to prevent mail loops). Message modification usually happens on mail going in or out to each CDR's subscribers. CDRs should not modify mail that they pass from one CDR to the next, but some of them do, and others undo those modifications. 3. Privacy Privacy policy indicates if the list will allow anyone ("open"), or only list members, or no one ("private") , to retrieve the subscribers list. Note that if you post, being on a "private" list doesn't mean much, since your address is now out there. It's really only useful for keeping spammers from harvesting addresses from the list software. Digest mode indicates that the CDR supports digest mode, which is where the posts are batched up into a few large emails. Nodes that support only digest mode are noted. 4. Anonymous posting Cypherpunks encourages anonymous posting. You can use an anonymous remailer: http://www.andrebacard.com/remail.html http://anon.efga.org/Remailers http://www.gilc.org/speech/anonymous/remailer.html or you can send posts to the list via cpunks_anon(a)einstein.ssz.com and your mail's headers will be stripped before posting. Note that this doesn't provide complete anonymity since the receiving site will still have log file entries showing the source of the mail (or you have to trust that they delete them). You also will be 'sharing' a reputation with the other entities that post through this alias, and some of them are spammers, so some subscribers will have this alias filtered. 5. Unsubscribing Unsubscribing from the cypherpunks list: Since the list is run from a number of different CDRs, you have to figure out which CDR you are subscribed to. If you don't remember and can't figure it out from the mail headers (hint: the top Received: line should tell you), the easiest way to unsubscribe is to send unsubscribe messages to all the CDRs listed below. How to figure out which CDR you are subscribed to: Get your mail client to show all the headers (Microsoft calls this "internet headers"). Look for the Sender or X-loop headers. The Sender will say something like "Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)lne.com". The X-loop line will say something like "X-Loop: cypherpunks(a)lne.com". Both of these inticate that you are subscribed to the lne.com CDR. If you were subscribed to the algebra CDR, they would have algebra.com in them. Once you have figured out which CDR you're subscribed to, look in the table below to find that CDRs unsubscribe instructions. 6. Lunatics, spammers and nut-cases "I'm subscribed to a filtering CDR yet I still see lots of junk postings". At this writing there are a few sociopaths on the cypherpunks list who are abusing the lists openness by dumping reams of propaganda on the list. The distinction between a spammer and a subscriber is nearly always very clear, but the dictinction between a subscriber who is abusing the list by posting reams of propaganda and a subscriber who is making lots of controversial posts is not clear. Therefore, we tolerate the crap. Subscribers with a low crap tolerance should check out mail filters. Procmail is a good one, although it works on Unix and Unix-like systems only. Eudora also has a capacity for filtering mail, as do many other mail readers. An example procmail recipie is below, you will of course want to make your own decisions on which (ab)users to filter. # mailing lists: # filter all cypherpunks mail into its own cypherspool folder, discarding # mail from loons. All CDRs set their From: line to 'owner-cypherpunks'. # /dev/null is unix for the trash can. :0 * ^From.*owner-cypherpunks@.* { :0: * (^From:.*ravage@ssz\.com.*|\ ^From:.*jchoate@dev.tivoli.com.*|\ ^From:.*mattd@useoz.com|\ ^From:.*proffr11@bigpond.com|\ ^From:.*jei@cc.hut.fi) /dev/null :0: cypherspool } 7. List of current CDRs All commands are sent in the body of mail unless otherwise noted. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Algebra: Operator: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)algebra.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- CCC: Operator: drt(a)un.bewaff.net Subscription: "subscribe [password of your choice]" to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Unsubscription: "unsubscribe <password>" to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Help: "help" to to cypherpunks-request(a)koeln.ccc.de Web site: http://koeln.ccc.de/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks Posting address: cypherpunks(a)koeln.ccc.de Filtering policy: This specific node drops messages bigger than 32k and every message with more than 17 recipients or just a line containing "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject. Digest mode: this node is digest-only NNTP: news://koeln.ccc.de/cbone.ml.cypherpunks Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Infonex: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)infonex.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)infonex.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lne: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)lne.com Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to lne CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. messages are demimed (MIME attachments removed) when posted through lne or received by lne CDR subscribers 2. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 3. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.lne.com/cpunk; "info cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)lne.com Archive: http://archives.abditum.com/cypherpunks/index.html (thanks to Steve Furlong and Len Sassaman) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Minder: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)minder.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)minder.net Help: "help" to majordomo(a)minder.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)minder.net Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: private Info: send mail to cypherpunks-info(a)minder.net --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Openpgp: [openpgp seems to have dropped off the end of the world-- it doesn't return anything from sending help queries. Ericm, 8/7/01] Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Help: "help" to listproc(a)openpgp.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)openpgp.net Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: no modification Privacy policy: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ssz: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)ssz.com Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)ssz.com Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)ssz.com Posting address: cypherpunks(a)ssz.com Filtering policy: raw Message Modification policy: Subject line prepended with "CDR:" Reply-to cypherpunks(a)ssz.com added. Privacy policy: open Info: http://www.ssz.com/cdr/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sunder: Subscription: "subscribe" to sunder(a)sunder.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe" to sunder(a)sunder.net Help: "help" to sunder(a)sunder.net Posting address: sunder(a)sunder.net Filtering policy: moderated Message Modification policy: ??? Privacy policy: ??? Info: ??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pro-ns: Subscription: "subscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Unsubscription: "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Help: "help cypherpunks" to majordomo(a)pro-ns.net Posting address: cypherpunks(a)pro-ns.net Filtering policy: cooked Posts from all CDR subscribers & replies to threads go to local CDR subscribers. All posts from other CDRs are forwarded to other CDRs unmodified. Message Modification policy: 1. leading "CDR:" in subject line removed 2. "Reply-to:" removed Privacy policy: private Info: http://www.pro-ns.net/cpunk

1 0

Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV
by Jim Choate 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

On Sun, 6 Apr 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > Fact is, if the sheeple weren't so ignorant/afraid, peaceful, > clean uses of nukes could benefit, e.g., excavating canals at > a fraction of the cost/time of conventional work. > > This is economics & physics, with politics smothering the > whole affair. What that is is bullshit, plain and simple. The use of nukes to create canals is just so much wishfull thinking. The impact of even small nukes on the stability of underground structures is -not- a good effect in -any- case. The radiation and storage of contaminated materials would far outweigh any short term savings of cost. There is one and only one place to use nukes, that is where people don't or won't live; and that means not on terra. Use of nukes in extra-terrestrial applications is another entire issue. Unfortunately we have a technology curve to climb before we'll get there. No War. No Killing. No Nuclear Weapons. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Re: [eff-austin] Cyber War! on Austin's KLRU Thursday, April 24, at 9pm
by Jim Choate 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

New form of warfare? Where have these folks been for the last 10 years? Clearly they've not been doing anything on the net...other than reading their own press releases that is. Spin doctor bullshit. They should check out the Cypherpunks archives for a lot of in depth discussion as well as more than a couple of examples. On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Carl Webb wrote: > Cyber War! > > https://www.klru.org/ > > [2116small.jpg] [blank.gif] > > A new form of warfare has broken out and the battleground is cyberspace. > In "Cyber War!" airing Thursday, April 24, at 9 P.M. on PBS (check local > listings), FRONTLINE investigates the threat of cyber war and reveals > what the White House knows that the rest of us don't. > > caption: Graduate students at the Naval Postgraduate School learn both > offensive and defensive tactics of cyber war. > > For electronic images, contact Jenna Lowe at (617) 300-3500 or e-mail > jenna_lowe(a)wgbh.org, > or go > to www.pbs.org/pressroom to download the high-resolution photos. > > Images may only be used in editorial conjunction with the direct > promotion of this film in North America. No other rights are granted. All > rights reserved. > > Photo credit: ) WGBH/FRONTLINE > > [blank.gif] Thursday, April 24, at 9pm, 60 minutes > > In the aftermath of September 11, as most intelligence gathering shifted > to finding Al Qaeda cells throughout the world, one group at the White > House decided to investigate a new threat--attacks from cyberspace. > > "In the past, you would count the number of bombers and the number of > tanks your enemy had. In the case of cyberwar, you really can't tell > whether the enemy has good weapons until the enemy uses them," says > Richard Clarke, former chairman of the White House Critical > Infrastructure Protection Board. > > In "Cyber War!" airing Thursday, April 24, at 9 P.M. on PBS (check local > listings), Clarke and other insiders talk about a new set of warriors who > are fighting on a new American battlefield--cyberspace. In this one-hour > report, FRONTLINE investigates how vulnerable the Internet is to both > virtual and physical attack. > > "The thing that keeps me awake at night is [the thought of] a physical > attack on a U.S. infrastructure...combined with a cyberattack which > disrupts the ability of first responders to access 911 systems," says Ron > Dick, former head of the FBI's National Infrastructure Protection Center. > > The issue of cyberwar first began to command urgent White House attention > after a distinguished group of scientists wrote an open letter to the > president following the Al Qaeda attacks. > > "The critical infrastructure of the United States, including electrical > power, finance, telecommunications, health care, transportation, water, > defense and the Internet, is highly vulnerable to cyberattack. Fast and > resolute mitigating action is needed to avoid national disaster," wrote > the authors of the letter, who included J.M. McConnell, a former head of > the National Security Agency, Stephen J. Lukasik of the Defense Advanced > Research Projects Agency, and Sami Saydjari of the Defense Research > Center. > > "Ultimately, it turned into about fifty-four scientists and > leaders--former national leaders, intelligence community people as > well--sending this letter that makes the case that says, 'We have a > problem here,'" Saydjari tells FRONTLINE. > > In "Cyber War!" FRONTLINE investigates a number of cyberattacks that have > already occurred: "Slammer," which last January took down the Internet in > South Korea and affected 911 systems and the banking system in the United > States, and the "Nimda" virus that quietly attacked Wall Street in 2001. > > "Nimda cost probably three billion dollars," says Clarke. "Had it not > been for the fact that September eleventh was the week before, it would > have been a big news story." > > FRONTLINE also follows efforts by the United States to go on the > offensive. > > "You cannot defend yourself unless you understand how the offense works. > And in so doing, you learn to wage offensives," says John Arquilla, > associate professor of Defense Analysis at the Naval Postgraduate School > in Monterey, California. Arquilla has helped the Department of Defense > develop information warfare strategies utilized in the first Gulf War, > Kosovo, Afghanistan, and in the most recent war with Iraq. > > But many cyberwar experts believe the Internet could be used to launch a > major attack on the nation's infrastructure. > > "What we found on Al Qaeda computers was that members of Al Qaeda were > from outside the United States doing reconnaissance in the United States > on our critical infrastructure," says Clarke. > > One target, experts say, could be the country's electric power grid. By > exploiting vulnerabilities in the supervisory-control and > data-acquisition (SCADA) systems that utility companies use to remotely > monitor and control their operations, American cities could be left in > the dark. > > "You could take down significant pieces of it for let's say operationally > useful periods of time. Penetrating a SCADA system that's running a > Microsoft operating system takes less than two minutes," one cyberwarrior > who spoke on the condition of anonymity tells FRONTLINE. > > Joe Weiss, a control system engineer and executive consultant for KEMA > Inc. reluctantly agrees that the power grid is vulnerable. "A very worst > case could be loss of power for six months or more," says Weiss. > > Clarke, scientists, and some inside the military have tried to convince > Washington that cybersecurity needs to be a priority. They have had > limited success. > > "I think cyberterrorism is a theoretical possibility," says John Hamre, > director of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a > prestigious military think tank. "Will cyberterrorism be like September > eleventh? No, I don't think so, not right now." > > "Terrorists are after the shock effect of their actions," Hamre adds. > "And it's very hard to see the shock effect when you can't get your ATM > machines to give you twenty dollars." > > But Clarke--who as head of counterterrorism for the Clinton and Bush > administrations was an early voice warning about Al Qaeda in the middle > 1990s--says cyberattacks are imminent. > > "When we have the experts telling us we have a big risk," says Clarke, > "wouldn't it be nice, for once, to get ahead of the power curve, solve > the problem, so there never is the big disaster?" > > Following the broadcast, visit FRONTLINE's Web site at > www.pbs.org/frontline for extended coverage of this story, including: > * Extended interviews with top-level experts on cyberspace security in > private industry, the U.S. government, the intelligence community, > and infrastructure networks; > * A forum with cybersecurity experts from CERT, Akamai, Symantec, and > Sandia Labs who will field questions from viewers; > * A discussion with a master hacker on how tools for computer hacking > can help access systems such as SCADA controls, corporate databases, > and secure government networks; > * Video streaming of "Cyber War!" in both Windows Media and Real > Player, and much more. > > "Cyber War!" is a FRONTLINE co-production with the Kirk Documentary > Group. The writer, producer, and director is Michael Kirk. The > co-producer and reporter is Jim Gilmore. > > FRONTLINE is produced by WGBH Boston and is broadcast nationwide on PBS. > > Funding for FRONTLINE is provided through the support of PBS viewers. > > FRONTLINE is closed-captioned for deaf and hard-of-hearing viewers. > > The executive producer for FRONTLINE is David Fanning. > > Press contacts: > Erin Martin Kane [erin_martin_kane(a)wgbh.org] > Chris Kelly [chris_kelly(a)wgbh.org] > (617) 300-3500 > > FRONTLINE XXI/April 2003 > [blank.gif] > about frontline 7 upcoming programs 7 teachers 7 join us 7 contact us > frontline privacy policy 7 pbs online 7 wgbh new content copyright )2001 > pbs online and wgbh/frontline > > [blank.gif] > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Yahoo! News - Pentagon Expects Long-Term Access to Four Key Bases in Iraq (fwd)
by Jim Choate 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=68&ncid=68&e=3&u=/nyt/2003… Now it becomes much clearer...bunch of war mongers. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Re: Idea: Rogue DNS resolvers
by Jim Choate 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

Hi Thomas, Pretty old news. There are quite a few folks who have been doing this sort of stuff for quite a while. Besides SSZ there is also the .god domain. If you get around to setting something up give me a holler. On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > Watching the senseless court fights for domains, DNS hijackings, all kinds > of technical and lawyernical attacks, getting into the way of the people > who just want their informations and want their bookmarks and links from > search engines just-working. Pondering... > > The situation could be alleviated by a few (or a wider network of) > volunteers, running public DNS resolvers (dnscache could be a good > candidate) paired with DNS servers (tinydns is a choice here), with the > "problematic" domains resolvings being set up manually, outside of the > DNS infrastructure. (I don't talk about the alternative root servers now.) > Let's name them RogueDNS (contrary to fully specs-conformant OfficialDNS). > Standard setup, used commonly on LANs when some domains have to resolve to > internal IPs instead of external ones (eg, servers behind the firewall, > accessible from both the LAN and the outside over external IP). > > Example of function: A company (or a country) unleashes their lawyers (or > goons) on somedomain.com, which then gets shut down or repointed to the > companydomain.com. A news about it gets out, together with the patch for > the RogueDNS server definitions. From then, the RogueDNS resolvers answer > queries for the hijacked domain with their original values, though the > OfficialDNS hierarchy now show the officially enforced values (eg, > pointing to the DEA servers with the we-don't-sell-bongs agenda, like in > the recent case of government-hijacked domains of head shops). > > Could be paired together with a webserver specialized to issue > HTTP-REDIRECT responses, for the cases when the server is entirely taken > down but a mirror exists - RogueDNS returns the IP of the redirecting > server, the redirecting server gets the entire URL in the request, looks > up the database of redirects, issues one. > > Can be both centralized, decentralized, or running on end users' machines. > The key problem here are the updates; they can be realized by mailing > lists, or periodic or on-demand queries on a server (or server networks) > using a protocol of choice; this is open for the developers. > > A prototype version, without the HTTP redirector, already worked for my > LAN (standard dnscache/tinydns combination). The HTTP redirector can be > easily implemented using eg. Apache/PHP/MySQL. > Or it can be partially emulated locally, by using hosts file. > > Could it be useful in some scenarios? Does it have the proper ingredients > for eventual wider deployment? Or is it completely unusable? > Ideas welcomed. :) > -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Labour to launch ID card - and it'll cost you �25
by R. A. Hettinga 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

<http://news.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/displayPrintable.jhtml?xml=/news/2…> The Telegraph Labour to launch ID card - and it'll cost you £25 By Colin Brown and Francis Elliott (Filed: 20/04/2003) Everyone in Britain will have to pay around £25 for a compulsory identity card under proposals being put to the cabinet by David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. The "smart" card will identify the holder using iris-recognition technology. Failure to carry the card will not be an offence but police will be able to order people to present it at a police station. The charge is aimed at overcoming resistance to the scheme from the Treasury. Until now Cabinet support for a national compulsory identity card has been outweighed by the Treasury, which has objected to footing the estimated £1.6 billion bill. While forcing people to pay for the card could add to the anticipated objections from human rights campaigners, Mr Blunkett believes that concern about national security is sufficient to ensure that individuals will be prepared to bear the cost. Mr Blunkett is confident that he can win support for the idea of a compulsory card even though previous ministers have failed. One Home Office official said that the threat of international terrorism following the September 11 attacks had tilted public opinion in favour of such a scheme. "The atmosphere has changed," he said. Another official discounted any suggestion that the public would baulk at the cost. "We think that a charge of £25 to £30 would be reasonable for five years and once it is up and running and the initial cost is out of the way, you could then extend the life of the card for 10 years," he said. Senior figures in the Cabinet strongly support the plan for the card, which would use a microchip to hold details including age, place of birth, home address and a personal number to identify the holder. It is also hoped that the card could be used to entitle the holder to a range of state benefits, thereby cutting benefit fraud. Mr Blunkett discussed his plan for a national ID card with Tom Ridge, the head of the US Department of Homeland Security, at a meeting in Washington earlier this month. Mr Blunkett agreed to develop a joint programme, using the same technology, with the US, which has already agreed a similar protocol with Canada. Iris recognition - so-called biometric information - is considered a more accurate and fraud-proof system than fingerprint or photo identification. The Home Office has already piloted the use of the technology. The UK Passport Office last year issued 500 passport cards with iris data. In another move to tighten security, ministers are to ban the practice of sending out passports by ordinary mail after a Home Office audit found that some 3,000 are still being "lost in the post" each year. Two years after The Telegraph first highlighted the problem of thousands of missing passports, the Home Office has admitted that 2,982 were lost in the post during 2002. The vast majority are stolen by criminal gangs and sold on to illegal immigrants or possibly terrorists. Beverley Hughes, the immigration minister, has ordered that people applying for a passport must in future pay for them to be sent by recorded delivery, ensuring that someone has to sign for them on receipt. The increased cost of this - up to £5 for each passport - would be borne by the applicant for the passport in increased fees. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)metzdowd.com

1 0

Re: Quarantines may be justified
by Major Variola (ret) 20 Apr '03

20 Apr '03

At 09:03 AM 4/20/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > So the native americans here before 1492 weren't free? They did, of >course, have private property -- whatever they could carry with them -- but the >land was held in common. The idea that individuals could "own" land was not >known to them. This is a white fallacy. If you caught someone hunting on your familial land, you might initiate violence against them. Within the family, resources were shared, but in dealing with other clans, violence certainly occurred. You think some of them lived in fortresses for yucks? Talk to an anthropologist some time. Territoriality is as old as amphibians.

2 1

Re: Quarantines may be justified (limits of biochem assault in public)
by Major Variola (ret) 19 Apr '03

19 Apr '03

At 09:02 AM 4/19/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Agreed, except for smoking in public. All smoking in public should be >banned. No one has the right to pollute the air I have to breath, in any way. I >shouldn't have to breath in or even smell someones else's drug as I walk down >the street. How about smell their perfume? You are not talking about pharmacological effects, but odor. Perfumes are voluntary. Some are even allergic to them. What are the limits?

2 1

Re: Antibiotics (Libertarian Epidemiology & The State)
by Major Variola (ret) 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

>Let anyone drink themselves to death, smoke themselves to death (or >even let their own property be used for smoking), shoot up drugs, have >damaging anal sex the way the fags do, and so on. > >But communicable diseases is/are one of the very few areas where >"provide for the common defense" is eminently applicable. You mean "communicable to randoms" not "communicable to those who choose to expose themselves", as in the following example. Everyone out of the gene pool! Festival Is Called Syphilis Threat Officials fear outbreak from annual party in Palm Springs. Expected are 30,000 gay revelers. With 30,000 gay revelers expected for this weekend's "White Party" in Palm Springs a festival famous for sex and substance abuse public health officials and some gay leaders worry openly that it will fan an epidemic of syphilis. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-party18apr18,1,3177921.story?coll=l… A case more interesting to libertarian epidemiologists involves fetuses and their state-owned incubators, er, female-type citizen-units: HIV Testing Urged in All Pregnancies Federal health officials will unveil a new HIV (news <http://rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/latimes/lo_latimes/inlinks/*http://rd.yahoo.c…> - web sites <http://rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/latimes/lo_latimes/inlinks/*http://rd.yahoo.c…>) testing strategy today designed to expand screening among pregnant women and about 200,000 others who are infected with the virus but do not know it. The new strategy by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (news <http://rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/latimes/lo_latimes/inlinks/*http://rd.yahoo.c…> - web sites <http://rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/latimes/lo_latimes/inlinks/*http://rd.yahoo.c…>) specifically urges the testing of all pregnant women, rather than relying upon them to volunteer. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/trib/20030418/lo_latimes/hiv…

1 0

custerflock optimism
by Major Variola (ret) 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

When the Roman military fell, the church took power for a thousand years. Iraqi priests are telling the US to, paraphrasing Pink Floyd, "get our their filthy hands off their desert". 3 kilotons of conventional arms: $30,000,000 Grabbing your crotch before shaking hands with Geraldo: Free Getting rid of Hussein and getting a democratically elected Islamic Republic: Priceless For Zionist imperialism, there's a huge military budget. For everything else, there's Mastercard. --- brezhnev took afghanistan begin took beirut galtieri took the union jack and maggie over lunch one day took a cruiser with all hands apparently to make him give it back

1 0