December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: everybody wants a piece of Microsoft's monopoly
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It is intruiging to observe how alarmed certain companies get about Microsoft's methods (as though sellers of bundled MS software couldn't themselves just say "no" to such business proposals, without the government's assistance), and how Billg (and his legal advisors) deal with the govmt as they get further and more precisely investigated. It should be instructive and inspiring for everyone else, when MS wins, to see how (if) they do it. I would sympathize, but Billg is a great believer in "lawful" ways of doing things, often cooperating in regard of hiring practices and monopoly watch-dogs, among other things, so it is of great interest to me to see how he deals with these "lawful" types who believe they have cause to stick it to him. 'Tis a fine line he walks, between supporting the methods of The Law, using its services, and also being highly successful in beyond the limits set forth in the Official U.S. Rules for Success, Section 0.123, p. 26.930. Anyway, it's all "for the customer", you know. .. Blanc

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by brian＠firstgear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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PGP 5.5 CMR/GAK: a possible solution
by mark＠unicorn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Posted to cypherpunks, cc:-ed to Jon Callas] You know, in the last few days I've read a lot of messages on both sides of this debate, and I've umm-ed and ahh-ed and slowly gone from thinking that what PGP are doing is evil to thinking that it's just bad. While I believe that Adam Back's suggestions for alternate systems are good and neccesary ideas for the long-term, I'm coming to the conclusion that PGP are heading in the right direction for the short-term, but have things backwards. The current system sends out a user's personal key, with a tag to say that if I don't encrypt to the company as well, my mail will bounce. But think about this: how often do I want to send email to a particular person in a company, and ensure that only they see it? And how often do I want to send mail to a particular group inside a company? All I want is to ensure that I get a response from the company, I usually don't care who I talk to in the process. So PGP's "everything private unless you choose to make it public" system seems backwards. Surely what we really need to meet these customer demands is an "everything public (within the company) unless you choose to make it private" system? That is, all mail to my department inside the company should be encrypted to a department key, shared by all members, *unless* it is confidential, in which case it should *only* be encrypted to me. Here's how I see this working: when Joe Blow joins Foo-Bah Cryptosystems, he creates his own personal PGP key. He also gets a copy of the department key, which he can use to decrypt any mail which is encrypted to his department; or this decryption could be handled automatically by a department email server to ensure that individuals never have access to the department's private key. PGP then creates a public key for 'Joe Blow <joe.blow(a)foo-bah.com>', which would be the department key with a signed tag linking it to his personal public key. This is the tagged corporate public key which he would give out to any customers. When a customer wishes to send email to Joe, he would use this public key. When encrypting, PGP would detect the tag and put up a dialog box pointing out that this is a corporate key and if they click on the 'confidential' button it will be encrypted to the user's personal key prior to encrypting to the corporate key (by which I mean superencryption, to avoid traffic analysis). The default would be not to superencrypt; and as a side effect this system would be compatible with any version of PGP for non-confidential mail (assuming that version understands the encryption algorithms in use). The effect of this is that if someone wants to send email about an urgent bug and I'm out at lunch, any of my co-workers can read that mail. But if they want to send *me* mail about confidential inter-company negotiations, the co-workers could decrypt the outer layer of the message, but would be blocked by the inner layer encryption to my personal key. As I see it, this system is simple, solves the problems which PGP claim they need to solve without creating the snooping problems Tim and others have discussed, cannot easily be adapted to GAK ('This message is to be encrypted to the FBI public key. If it is confidential, click here to superencrypt to the recipient's personal key'), and won't require a massive change to the PGP source code. There are some obvious security issues with having the department key shared amongst the members of the department, but I don't see that they are any worse than PGP's current CMR implementation, which has already discussed the use of department keys; it's certainly better than using plaintext. There are also problems with encrypting confidential mail to multiple recipients, but they're surmountable; an easy solution, if you don't care about traffic analysis, is to only encrypt confidential mail to the personal key rather than superencrypt with the corporate key. In most cases such mail wouldn't be sent to multiple recipients anyway. So here's how I'd see the simple system working: A PGP CMR key would consist of 1. A corporate key; this might be company-wide, department-wide, or an individual escrowed key; this choice is a seperate key-management issue for the corporation. 2. Optionally a personal key, which could only be decrypted by the individual. 3. A signature from the corporate key linking the personal key to it and the specified User Id. 4. Optional flag to indicate which key to encrypt to by default. 5. User Id, signatures, etc When PGP was asked to encrypt to such a key, it would check for the optional personal key. If it wasn't there, it would put up a warning box to tell the user that the message can be read by people other than the recipient. If it is, then it would put up a dialog box allowing the user to choose whether to encrypt to the corporate key or the individual key, normally defaulting to the corporate key. This system could not easily become GAK because it will only encrypt to one of the keys and not both; the FBI could create FBI CMR keys from all our public keys, but then PGP would either encrypt to the FBI and I wouldn't be able to read it, or encrypt to me and the FBI wouldn't be able to read it. Anyone care to pick any holes? Mark |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| |Mark Grant M.A., U.L.C. EMAIL: mark(a)unicorn.com | |WWW: http://www.unicorn.com/ MAILBOT: bot(a)unicorn.com | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|

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Digital signatures
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim Maytag carries a turd in his wallet for identification purposes. _______c___c / /_ _\ | ((6)(6)) Tim Maytag ( )_ __\\ //__ o___n) (nn)\o/(nn)

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17 Dec '03

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Re: PGP 5.5 CMR/GAK: a possible solution
by mark＠unicorn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

amp(a)pobox.com wrote: > One thing that I think PGP needs more than anything else, is to make it easy > to build lists of keys to encrypt to. I'm not sure that it's quite what you're suggesting, but I was thinking that this idea could be extended to an arbitrary hierachy; for example, company key, department key, individual escrowed key, individual-only key. The sender could then choose which of these keys to encrypt to based on the sensitivity of the message. Again, this couldn't be extended to GAK because if the FBI were to put themselves at the top of the hierachy we wouldn't be able to read any mail which was encrypted to their key! Mark

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Re: SMTP Encryption Extension (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:38:07 +0200 > From: Mike <Michael.Johnson(a)mejl.com> > Subject: Re: SMTP Encryption Extension > Sure, but the idea here was hiding email to defeat traffic analysis. Ssmtp > would raise alarms in any snopper but https would seem like business as > usual, probably just another gif. And https is available through a lot of > firewalls where you can't run ssmtp. Your base assumption is that Mallet is stupid. Bad assumption. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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PGP Inc isn't using CMR (Re: wanted dead or alive: pgp5.5 key pair)Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:06:04 -0700)
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: > At 4:34 PM -0700 10/21/97, Adam Back wrote: > >Enciphering minds want to find out how pgp5.0 reacts to this key :-) > > > >(The question is really does pgp5.0 encrypt to the CMR key). > > Why not just try to send a message to "phil(a)pgp.com"? > > Surely PGP, Inc. is itself using its own product? Strangely not. Tom Zerucha asked this question over on open-pgp, and Jon Callas replied: Jon Callas <jon(a)pgp.com> wrote: : Tom Zerucha <@spam-resistant-email-address> wrote: : : But let me ask a question about PGP, Inc. - Do they use the PGP 5.5 : version with corporate key recovery internally? : : No, we don't. We have no need to. It would be inappropriate for our : environment. Guess that answers that one then. > (I know if I were Jon Seybold and I had a radical"No nukes" nut like Phil > on my staff, :-), I'd want to monitor what he was saying to people and what > they were saying to him.) Some fairly hot things by all accounts: all about resistance fighters, and terrorists. Really ought to watch that guy :-) He has a laptop which he carries everywhere too -- probably with his non-CMR old prz(a)acm.org key on it -- reckon he'll be fiercely hanging on to that one :-) Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

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by 82GuyWire＠live.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Singapore TOILET ALERT
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Apologies to my friends in Singapore, but I am NOT making this up. --Declan] And the top five toilets are... SINGAPORE (Reuters) - A drive to keep public toilets clean and dry is meeting with overwhelming success, the Ministry of Environment said in a "toilet alert" Tuesday. The statement said that in the first week "5,000 Singaporans have called the Clean Public Toilets hotline to identify Singapore's model toilets and to vote for their top five favorite toilets." The ministry launched a poster competition earlier in the month featuring three model toilets and inviting the public to identify their locations, as well as to nominate their favorite public toilets in five categories of locations. Various prizes are involved, including a return trip to Hong Kong to be won in a draw. Singapore is known for public campaigns promoting causes ranging from discouraging littering to encouraging people to have more children. ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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