December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by Phillip Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings. The interpretation of the US ambassador appears to be based on the assumption that the governmental proceedures of democratic countries are like those of his home country. In fact European governments cannot make law simply by telling the national police force to arrest folk who engage in particular behaviour. The system of checks and balances may be described in the US constitution but it is entrenched in the European polity. The UK does not have a national police force precisely to stop Hooverism. Even directives of the European Commission do not have legal force until the national parliaments enact legislation to implement the directive. One should also remember that the government of the Netherlands has agreed to control the sale and use of narcotics. If their efforts to control cryptography are as dilligent we have nothing to worry about. In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is one export zone for crypto control purposes. I fail to see that stopping Brits from exporting crypto to the US changes the equation a great deal. There once was an English king called Canute who attempted to demonstrate to his courtiers that he was fallible and could not order the tide to turn. Perhaps Clinton's courtiers need to learn that they suffer the same limmitation. Phill

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Fwd: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY !
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:35:56 -0800 >From: Donna Ferolie <donnaferolie(a)sympatico.ca> >Subject: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY ! This message has gone out to firearm owners all over the world as well on the cdn-firearm chat and cdn-firearm digest. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY This message is specifically dedicated to sport shooters from around the globe. I would like to acknowledge our friends from the U.K, South Africa, Brazil, New Zealand, Australia and the good old U.S.A. I have just sent out idividual messages to all of these countries and some others including Germany, Belgium, Austria, Boliva, Argentina, Aruba Slovakia and Barbados. If your country has not been listed please contact me directly. I am trying to develop a list of countries that are logging onto our open firearms chat line. It is my goal to have firearm owners from every country monitoring and sharing their experiences. Please encourage fellow shooters in your country to come on line and take advantage of this open forum. I fully realize that the primary focus of the Canadian Firearms Chat Line is aimed at Canadian gun laws; however, there is a great deal of pertinent international information that could be shared in this medium and we will all be the beneficiaries if we willfully share our ideas and experiences. I have another strategy up my sleeve regarding rallying the international firearm community prior to the final outcome of the United Nations firearms workshops in the year 2000; therefore it is paramount that we maintain frequent global communications. I will be exploring some of my ideas with the NRA and the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia in the new year and floating some draft strategies for open discussion. Moreover, I fully intend on attending most of the United Nations firearm workshops therefore having everyone connected to one open forum would assist me in getting this information out all of you in a quick concise manner. I've had a few myopic individuals ask me why I should be so concerned about gun control in other countries ? As far as I am concerned we should all be concerned -VERY concerned ! When one of our sister countries falls we should all feel their pain and learn something valuable, because we may be next. We cannot for a minute forget about the draconian laws rammed down the throats of other Commonwealth countries in particular or any free-thinking society. Can we really delude ourselves into thinking that it couldn't happen here- don t kid yourself, as I write, the erosion of our rights is going down the same path as Australians are treading, faster than we care to admit, and we all should instinctively know it? How would Canadians like to have all of their semis and pump shotguns and rifles declared illegal and confiscated overnight by a communist-leaning, bleeding heart liberal government- think about it !! It is important for Canadians to realize that countries all over the world feel no different that we do. They feel just as vulnerable and thus are seeking guidance and support. We are in an excellent position to offer assistance to each other via this open forum. I truly believe we can learn from each others mistakes and triumphs. Perhaps if we can tap into this universal intelligence on a continuous basis we could overtake the mighty Goliath. If time permits I would like to post the names of all anti-firearm NGO's and their meetings which are going on simultaneously all over the world as we speak. I think it is high time that we banded together as one solid global unit in an effort to effectively launch a counter attack against those that take glee in the gradual erosion of our civil rights and liberties. A frequent complaint about this type of forum is the problem of receiving an excessive number of messages, but I believe the rewards associated with this hassle far out weigh the inconvenience. I care very much that our friends in South Africa are now subject to new guns laws. I am sickened by what has transpired in Australia and the U.K. I want the world to know how crime has escalated in Brazil and yet they live under the most stringent gun control laws. As a point of interest the " boys from Brazil " will be preparing a written paper outlining this very fact which I will present on their behalf to the anti-gun Brazilian delegation at the next U.N workshop in Vienna in the latter part of Jan/99. In conclusion, if you are interested in banding together as one strong universal voice, then get your friends connected to this open chat /and or digest. Let us not lose focus of our own battle at home, but let us not turn a blind eye to our global neighbours struggles. I understand that English is a problem for some of you, but we are understanding and we willing to work through any language barriers. So please do NOT feel uncomfortable to communicate with us - we d love to hear what has transpired in your country ! Remember, repeated blows to the lower extremities will eventually cause the giant to fall ! You can subscribe to the Canadian Firearms Digest and the Firearms Chat line by 1) Subcribe to the cdn chat & cdn digest ( separately ) 2) e-mailing the following address for both chat & digest: <majordomo(a)sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> 3) Leave the subject section blank 4) Write in the body of the message subscribe cdn-firearm chat end subcribe cdn-firearm digest end Remember when you are subscribing to the chat is separate from the digest. Please feel free to contact me anytime at the following: donnaferolie(a)sympatico.ca Donna Ferolie Keep up the fight! Donna Ferolie Canada ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

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Re: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #35
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:14 AM -0500 on 12/5/98, editor-bounce(a)netsurf.com wrote: > Secret Netsurfing... for a Fee > > You meet such nice people in this job. People like Cyber Promotions, who >believe the way to a great Web site is not content, originality, or >design, but an "aggressive marketing campaign every week" - it sells spam. >For a fee, Cyber Promotions will send out up to 50,000 messages at a time >through untraceable remailers and silent servers. This delightful >organization also bring us - as expected, for a fee - Ultimate Anonymity, >under the guise of the old-style anonymity sites which campaigned to the >death against censorship and government interference (remember Penet?). >Anyone with $14 can use this site to post anonymously in newsgroups, send >unlimited quantities of untraceable e-mail (with attachments), and >generally pollute the bandwidth. There may be genuine privacy campaigners >using the site, if they can squeeze in between all the amateur porn >merchants.... <http://www.ultimate-anonymity.com/> >http://www.ultimate-anonymity.com/ ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Greg Taylor: preliminary Wassenaar details from three countries
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Greg graciously allowed me to repost this. --gnu] Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 15:22:53 +1000 From: Greg Taylor <gtaylor(a)efa.org.au> Hi John, You wrote: >I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that >the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for >mass market crypto software. (The NY Times and Reuters stories both >quote Ambassador Aarons.) I think Aarons must have an advanced degree in spin doctoring, but nevertheless information about new restrictions on mass market software has also come from 3 independent well-placed sources. >From the UK crypto list: ================= Just talked to Dirk Weicke, Senior Adviser to Wassenaar Organisation. Tel:+43 1 516360) No written details will be issued until next week, but gist is: *) No alteration to question of whether Wassenaar covers intangible exports. Up to signatory states to interpret and legislate. *) mass-market software, symmetric key length limited to 56-bits *) software generally available, but with other restrictive tests on end-user re-configurability, symmetric key length limited to 64-bits *) Assymetric key lengths (not sure how relates to above) limited to: RSA & Digital logarithm: 512 bits Elliptic curve : 112 bits ===================== And here's a view from David Jones (EFC), from the GILC list: ===================== - There is "some relaxation" for restrictions on symmetric methods using key lengths of 56 bits or less. Stronger crypto would require an export license. - There is no restriction on mass-market software using symmetric methods and a key length of 64 bits or less. Stronger mass-market crypto would require an export license. - "Public Domain Software is not restricted" [If this is really true, this is still an important loophole.] - There is not yet any clear information about the status of "intangible goods", like crypto software on a web site, or sent by email, as opposed to "tangible goods", like software on a floppy disk or CD-ROM. - The restrictions on mass-market software greater than 64 bits is "for public safety" reasons and will last for 2 years, after which it will be reviewed. ============================= Yesterday I got the Australian government interpretation from Robbie Costmeyer in Canberra. Costmeyer is the Defence bureaucrat responsible for approving export licenses. I was told that Wassenaar had now agreed that the General Software Note waiver no longer applied to Category 5/2 items (i.e. crypto) on the controlled goods list. It has always been the view of Defence Signals Directorate here that it was an oversight that crypto software came under the GSN. That reason was used to justify Australia's going one step further than required under the original Wassenaar Arrangement and disallowing exemptions to the export licensing rules. A few other countries do the same (USA, New Zealand, France, Russia). Canberra thus views the latest change as the correction of an oversight. Clearly there is a difference of interpretation here regarding public domain software (compare the Canadian view above). This question needs further investigation. The Australian view is that the latest Wassenaar changes are a relaxation of the previous rules. And they're right, when compared with the previous rules applying here. Australia will now move to amend the Defence Strategic Goods List (DSGL) to allow exemptions for small key lengths as decribed above. For other countries, the effects remain to be seen. We'll just have to wait for more information to filter out. Greg

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17 Dec '03

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ZDNet and ZDTV Forums Update
by ZDNet Announce 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is the second message from ZD to all the members of our message boards. It contains information and tips about a coming transition to new software. You will receive just one or two more of these messages in the coming week. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When you go to the ZDNet or ZDTV forums on Tuesday, Dec. 8, you will find the new Deja News software in place. You will see some differences in the way the message boards operate, so you may need to experiment a little. If you are very familiar with our current forum features, it will take some time to become comfortable with the new system. We apologize for the inconvenience this causes and are trying to make the switch as painless as possible. We'll have dozens of sysops online answering your questions every day. We also will update the on-line help files frequently to highlight key differences between the current software, called Podium, and the new version. Below are some advance hints for everyone making the switch to Deja News. You can try these features out in now our Test Forum at http://f5.dejanews.com/frames/test.html ** Messages that you have not yet read appear in bold. ** That's how Deja News tells you which posts are new since you last visited. Once you open and read a message, the bolding goes away. You have the option to Mark Thread As Read, and an entire set of messages will lose their boldness. In addition, you can Mark All As Read, and every message in that forum will become un-bold. ** When you leave a forum and come back later, messages that you read previously are not displayed. ** You can see these already-read messages by clicking the Show All button. Here's the tricky part: If you read all the messages in a thread and then someone adds another, the entire thread will be displayed and most messages will not be bold. Just the new message that you have not yet read will appear with bolded text. (In our current message board software, messages that you had already read remain hidden when a new message is added.) ** On Tuesday, some messages that you have read will be marked as unread. ** We will migrate all the messages currently in Podium over to the new Deja News software. However, we cannot keep track of which messages every user has read. As a result, all messages will be marked initially as unread. You can easily take care of this by doing one of two things: 1) Use the Mark All As Read found at the top of the new message board. This approach is fastest, but it might make you overlook some messages you really do want to read. 2) Use the Mark Thread As Read text link found at the beginning of each thread. This approach is a more selective way to get up-to-date, but it takes a bit more time. ** You can Expand or Collapse the entire thread list. ** The thread list shows all the individual "conversations" happening in the message board. The default setting shows you just the starting topic in each thread. If you want to see a detailed list of all the replies to that initial message, just click the Expand button. To shrink your threads list again, click the Collapse button. Collapse and Expand are basically toggle buttons. Show All and Show Unread are also toggle buttons, and they oper- ated independently of the Collapse and Expand controls. ** Your browser's reload button works in the forums. ** In Podium, when you hit reload in your browser, your forum display settings would disappear. In the upcoming Deja News software, your settings are preserved. So go ahead and hit reload to see if new messages have been added while you are online -- it works! ** Give Search a try. ** The Deja News fast search capability will help you track down messages easily. You can look across all the forums or in just one, for any text in a message. If you choose Mark All As Read but want to locate an earlier message, use the Search function. Thanks for taking the time to read this note. I hope these tips give you some insight into the new software and make the switch smoother. We're adding user-suggested info to our help file with the launch of the new forums next week, so keep those comments and ideas coming! We look forward to seeing you in the new forums, and we are glad to have you as a part of the ZD Community. Wendy Frankwich ZD Community Central http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdnet.com http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdtv.com _______________________________________________________________________ To be removed from this list, simply reply to this message with "unsubscribe" as your subject.

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[Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions]
by Soren 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: Igor Chudov <ichudov(a)algebra.com> Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions From: Soren <sorens(a)workmail.com> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:29:23 -0500 References: <199812042341.RAA18742(a)manifold.algebra.com> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for > survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. > > For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, > you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other > clothes. This is a good one. What about the other half of American life (the uncivilized?). You know, the americans who live in those old refrigerator cartons? The ones that nobody sees? I think they get more than 2 weeks out of their shirts. The sad fact is that city brats haven't got the faintest idea what survival is all about (you mean I have to *walk* to the supermarket?). It was in the 1890's when Queen Victoria issued an edict that forced all the english to 'bathe at least once a year'. Sit back and enjoy the carnival.

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Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by HyperReal-Anon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings. Yes, and people democratically demand government enforcement of the majority will, something made more difficult if the subjects have strong cryptography. As Donn Parker observed several years ago, strong cryptography is inconsistent with democracy. (Published in Scientific American --- reference on request.) John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> writes Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy, the USSA. And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the right choices. Let's keep trying. But don't educate them too much, or they will understand that cryptography can set people free, and if people were free there would be no political government, and if there were no political government their social security checks would stop coming, along with all their other government ``benefits''.

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by bill payne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just read the most recent AFTER MONTHS of nothing happening. http://jya.com/a6e.htm Love it. Can you possibly get suspected terrorists on your landlord's case?

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Frequent Asked Questions Re: $9.99 to build your own
by promo124＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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