December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: actual, on-topic post (tm)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jkthomson <jkthomson(a)bigfoot.com> writes: >does a large number of 'bounces' between randomly selected remailers >increase security/untraceability? what if you made each message go through >ALL remailers, or nearly all? Going through all the remailers is overkill. The rationale for multiple remailers (four are usually recommended) is that it's harder to trace a message through the remailer network. Say you want to send a message to person X. So you send it to remailer A. Now there's a chain linking you to that remailer (probably your ISP's smtp log), and your friendly local jackbooted thug could say, "Aha! You sent a message to that remailer, and then person X got an anonymous message! It must have been you!" They might not be able to make it stick, but they'd certainly be able to take you downtown for a quick wooden high colonic. Now, suppose instead that you'd sent it through a chain of four remailers, chosen in some reasonably random fashion. So the thug has a record of you sending something to remailer A, but the message came from Remailer D. He has to construct a chain linking you to Remailer D, via remailer B and C. If you PGP-encrypt the messages in layers, as with Premail, then no remailer other than the last in the chain has the final destination, and no remailer other than the first knows where the message originally came from. Hope this helps.

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Happy Holiday Wishes :)
by greetings＠cards.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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No Subject
by eureka-help＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[ENGLISH, FRANÇAIS, DEUTSCH & ESPAÑOL] ENGLISH ======= This is your reply from Eureka! You must now hit REPLY on your email program to send this message back to us, and let us know we have your correct address. Please note that this is the ONLY way to ensure your subscription proceeds. If you send an email to us ANY other way, it will NOT get you subscribed to the mailing list. Please do this now to ensure you do not miss out on all the bonus FREE hardcore video channels we are offering all new subscribers as well as the 100s of FREE XXX photos that are waiting for you right now! IMPORTANT For information on our 100% anti-spamming policy, and what to do if you did not ask to receive this email, or do not wish to proceed with your free subscription, please click here .......... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm This URL also includes full information on how to block ac- cess to most adult sites from children under the age of 18. FRANÇAIS ======== Merci de votre intérêt dans l'Eureka! bulletin. RÉPONDEZ s'il vous plaît maintenant à cet email en choisissant le bouton de réponse dans votre programme d'email et en l'envoyant de nouveau à nous. Ceci confirmera que nous avons votre email address correct. Il n'assure également personne autrement peut vous joindre à la liste si vous ne la souhaitez pas. Veuillez noter que nous n'envoyons pas les emails non sollicités. Nous avons une pleine page sur notre anti-Spam politique ici . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm - à cette page vous pouvez également trouver des liens au logiciel qui interdira tous les sites d'adulte de dessous des enfants d'âge. DEUTSCH ======= Danke für Ihr Interesse am Eureka! Rundschreiben. Bitte ANTWORTEN Sie jetzt auf dieses email, indem Sie die Antworttaste in Ihrem emailprogramm auswählen und sie zurück zu uns senden. Dieses bestätigt, daß wir Ihr korrektes email address haben. Es stellt auch niemand kann Sie sonst zur Liste verbinden sicher, wenn Sie sie nicht wünschen. Beachten Sie bitte, daß wir nicht freiwillige email aussenden. Wir haben eine volle Seite auf unserer Anti-Spam Politik hier .. http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm - auf dieser Seite können Sie Links zur Software auch finden, die alle Erwachsensites von unterhalb der Alterskinder verbietet. ESPAÑOL ======= Gracias por su interés en el Eureka! boletín de noticias. Ahora CONTESTE por favor a este email seleccionando el botón de la contestación en su programa del email y enviándolo de nuevo a nosotros. Esto confirmará que tenemos su email address correcto. También no asegura a nadie puede ensamblarle a la lista si usted no la desea. Observe por favor que no enviamos email no solicitados. Tenemos una paginación llena en nuestra contra-Spam política aquí . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm En esta paginación usted puede también encontrar conexiones al software lógica que prohibirá todos los sitios del adulto de niños de la edad inferior.

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No Subject
by eureka-help＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[ENGLISH, FRANÇAIS, DEUTSCH & ESPAÑOL] ENGLISH ======= This is your reply from Eureka! You must now hit REPLY on your email program to send this message back to us, and let us know we have your correct address. Please note that this is the ONLY way to ensure your subscription proceeds. If you send an email to us ANY other way, it will NOT get you subscribed to the mailing list. Please do this now to ensure you do not miss out on all the bonus FREE hardcore video channels we are offering all new subscribers as well as the 100s of FREE XXX photos that are waiting for you right now! IMPORTANT For information on our 100% anti-spamming policy, and what to do if you did not ask to receive this email, or do not wish to proceed with your free subscription, please click here .......... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm This URL also includes full information on how to block ac- cess to most adult sites from children under the age of 18. FRANÇAIS ======== Merci de votre intérêt dans l'Eureka! bulletin. RÉPONDEZ s'il vous plaît maintenant à cet email en choisissant le bouton de réponse dans votre programme d'email et en l'envoyant de nouveau à nous. Ceci confirmera que nous avons votre email address correct. Il n'assure également personne autrement peut vous joindre à la liste si vous ne la souhaitez pas. Veuillez noter que nous n'envoyons pas les emails non sollicités. Nous avons une pleine page sur notre anti-Spam politique ici . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm - à cette page vous pouvez également trouver des liens au logiciel qui interdira tous les sites d'adulte de dessous des enfants d'âge. DEUTSCH ======= Danke für Ihr Interesse am Eureka! Rundschreiben. Bitte ANTWORTEN Sie jetzt auf dieses email, indem Sie die Antworttaste in Ihrem emailprogramm auswählen und sie zurück zu uns senden. Dieses bestätigt, daß wir Ihr korrektes email address haben. Es stellt auch niemand kann Sie sonst zur Liste verbinden sicher, wenn Sie sie nicht wünschen. Beachten Sie bitte, daß wir nicht freiwillige email aussenden. Wir haben eine volle Seite auf unserer Anti-Spam Politik hier .. http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm - auf dieser Seite können Sie Links zur Software auch finden, die alle Erwachsensites von unterhalb der Alterskinder verbietet. ESPAÑOL ======= Gracias por su interés en el Eureka! boletín de noticias. Ahora CONTESTE por favor a este email seleccionando el botón de la contestación en su programa del email y enviándolo de nuevo a nosotros. Esto confirmará que tenemos su email address correcto. También no asegura a nadie puede ensamblarle a la lista si usted no la desea. Observe por favor que no enviamos email no solicitados. Tenemos una paginación llena en nuestra contra-Spam política aquí . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/nospam.htm En esta paginación usted puede también encontrar conexiones al software lógica que prohibirá todos los sitios del adulto de niños de la edad inferior.

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Cryptographer examines Kaczynski's journal
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: fma66.fma.com: majordomo set sender to owner-espam(a)lists.espace.net using -f X-Orig-From: William Knowles <erehwon(a)dis.org> X-e$pam-source: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu X-Sender: rah(a)pop.sneaker.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:09:27 -0500 To: espam(a)intertrader.com From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: Cryptographer examines Kaczynski's journal Sender: owner-espam(a)lists.espace.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail is brought to you by the e$pam mailing list --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Knowles <erehwon(a)dis.org> To: "Perry's crypto list" <cryptography(a)c2.net>, DC-Stuff <dc-stuff(a)dis.org> cc: DCSB <dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu> Subject: Cryptographer examines Kaczynski's journal Organization: Home for retired social engineers & unrepented cryptophreaks MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: William Knowles <erehwon(a)dis.org> SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- Driven by secrecy, Theodore Kaczynski kept a cryptic diary for two decades, substituting numbers and mathematical symbols for words and letters. Prosecutors say the Unabomber suspect's encoded journal is the cornerstone of their case against the mathematics professor-turned -forest recluse. They say it provides a remarkable, step-by-step view of years of wrongdoing -- in the defendant's own words. And they intend to have FBI cryptographer Michael Birch lay out his ``translation'' of the entire document to jurors. ``Although Mr. Birch's expertise is breaking codes, in this case the 'key' to the defendant's code was found in the cabin,'' the government said in its trial strategy brief. ``Therefore, Mr. Birch's expertise will be directed to explaining to the jury how to apply the code to the defendant's coded writings and the admission into evidence of his completed translation.'' Earlier, lead prosecutor Robert Cleary said the journal records are ``the backbone of the government's case.'' He said the diary describes in detail the 16 Unabomber attacks from 1978 to 1995 that killed three people and injured 29. Kaczynski, 55, is charged with using bombs in four attacks: He is accused of killing a lobbyist and a computer store owner a decade apart in Sacramento, and maiming a geneticist and a computer professor with Sacramento-postmarked mail bombs in 1993. Opening statements in the trial are scheduled for Jan. 5. Kaczynski could get the death penalty if convicted. He is charged separately in New Jersey with the third fatality attributed to the Unabomber's 18-year siege. Unlike the Unabomber manifesto, a 35,000-word treatise that depicts technology as an evil force, the coded diary was never intended to be seen by anyone else. The diary, written in pencil on several hundred pages of notepaper and several inches thick, includes details of experiments with explosives. It was among 20,000 documents seized from Kaczynski's tiny Montana shack. The diary contents have not been made public, although Birch's decoded version was given to the defense last year. Sources familiar with the journal describe it as a sophisticated jumble of numbers, an intricate enigma wrapped in a riddle befitting a Harvard-trained mathematician described by one prospective juror as a ``smart weirdo.'' But code experts aren't so sure. They believe Kaczynski, who shunned computers and electronic devices in his cabin without electricity, may actually have cloaked the journal in a ``hand code'' that would have been relatively easy to break, even without the key. Such codes vary widely, but one basic variety resembles a checkerboard or grid, numbered on the sides, with each square filled randomly with a letter of the alphabet. The coded message is a string of numbers, which are the coordinates corresponding to the letters in the grid. To read the message, one needs to translate the numbers using the grid, or key. But typically, those numbers may be scrambled using a second code, and even a third, so that the final message is shrouded in layers of secrecy. Although such a numeric code looks daunting to the lay person, it is no more difficult to crack than the kind of basic substitution ciphers popular in pulp fiction or newspaper word games. ``You may have `A equals 1', and `B equals 2,' stuff like that in a numeric code with pencil and paper. Numbers look a little more mysterious and harder, like `39647181.' But it doesn't have anything to do with the complexity of the code. It's totally irrelevant,'' said David Kahn, an editor at Long Island's Newsday and the author of ``The Code Breakers,'' a seminal work on classical cryptography. ``A checkerboard cipher with nothing else going on is no harder to crack than the simple substitution system used in a newspaper,'' added James Gillogly, president of the American Cryptogram Assoc. He is an employee of the Westwood-based Mentat Inc., which develops security software. Ronald L. Rivest, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a founder of MIT's Cryptography and Information Security Group, agreed. ``When you are dealing in a situation where someone is working by hand with a code, and dealing with pencil and paper, it's not that difficult'' to decode, he said. == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request(a)ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ info(a)hyperion.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce http://www.c2.net/ stronghold(a)c2.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Like e$? Help pay for it! For e$/e$pam contributions or sponsorship: <mailto:rah@shipwright.com> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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rduyh
by martunia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

yu5rtuy

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RE: [NTSEC] SKIPJACK / NT4.0 (SP3?) (fwd)
by J.A. Terranson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Since I've had so many people either ask what s/w was installed on this box, or else claim that "J.A. must be on crack! :-)", here is the breakdown... NT4.0; SP3; Every post SP3 hotfix through the third week of December; NT4.0 Server Resource Kit; I.E. 3.02 with Java VM pkg installed; PGP 5.0 Commercial; Adobe Photoshop 4.0 with a couple of special filter plugins; Adobe Illustrator 4.something, no addons; Adobe Premier with no addons; Micrographics Webtricity; Front Page 97 with assorted HotFixes; Outlook 97 with assorted HotFixes; TCL/TK; J++; Java 1.something with SDK; WordPerfect Suite 7.something. Obviously, this is on a Web Authoring station, so there is absolutely no reason for any of the above programs to be playing around with Skipjack... Never the less... I brought up a testbed system over the Xmas break, using the same install packages that I used to build the workstation in question. No sign of ANY ciphers: Skipjack or anything else! Which makes sense. The question now is just how in the h%@#& did it get here in the first place? And why are my others ciphers explicitly disabled for SSL? This is a really disturbing finding. I am more concerned that Skipjack was *silently* installed than anything else: I have plans to completely reinstall all of the software from scratch on this particular box, and then enable full key ACL logging in an attempt to find out how it got there. I am VERY concerned about this! The ONLY way I can conceive of this machine having this configuration is if it was silently downloaded to the machine during a W3 session. And it would NOT likely have been an SSL session: We do absolutely NO on-line transactions here. If Skipjack is being silently, I want to know by whom, and for what purpose. OK, maybe I'm just paranoid, or smoking crack, but I spent several years in the late '80's working in COMSEC, and the scenario which first comes to mind is not too far-fetched (at least for me) to be believable... It is most definitely an SSL 3 supported cipher but unless you have the token or such, then it is not going to be used for anything, and then only if you try to connect to a Skipjack (ie. fortezza) site. I doubt you have the code as it is classified and available (at this time) only in hardware. Don't sweat it, it looks like it's just a hook or ..... What environment/flavor of stuff are you running? I can help you with this if you want to contact me off the list. At 11:45 AM 12/26/97 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >Now this is interesting! :) (Either that or JA is smoking crack... - no >idea on JA's reputation capital though...) > >=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== >.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. >..\|/..|sunder(a)sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ ><--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ >../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. >.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... >======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:29:07 -0600 >From: "J.A. Terranson" <sysadmin(a)mfn.org> >To: 'NT Security Listserv' <ntsecurity(a)iss.net> >Subject: [NTSEC] SKIPJACK / NT4.0 (SP3?) > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >I was rooting around in the registry tonight, (looking to repair my own >stupidity!), >and guess what I saw? SKIPJACK is installed, and ENABLED! I have NOT >(now would I EVER) installed it voluntarily, and Micro$loth only advertises >the >"standard" ciphers (which I also found). > >Is anyone else aware of this? Is it safe to delete the key (and code? >Hopefully >this is DLL driven: I'm still looking!). > >Also, anyone know what it was put there for? It's certainly not what I would > >consider an SSL issue! > >J.A. Terranson >sysadmin(a)mfn.org >A small fading light in a vast and obscure universe... > >PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY - ENCRYPT! >PGP/DSS: 0x12896749 FP: 63F2 1777 BC38 AC1E 3359 > 0B0E C6C0 ED6B 1289 6749 >PGP/RSA: 0x9D85DF05 FP: 810C 25E9 7DD3 C157 > 3081 A202 DDFD 4245 >If Government wants us to behave, it should set a better example! > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 >Charset: noconv > >iQEVAwUBNKC5wqAMF5Wdhd8FAQFsDQgAkietW1awMFDE9ZY5d9B+Zc0cGuGxlPC+ >XzVy6+RleDngUecSAf8MbZZlTDDyN69liKG2Of0n+pZnlJSbKZWZiG0cRN592bbL >xCF/cwgNdJi1/HTA/mDZ7fpRT1phCMi/b2U3XXyV3QG2fv+Z8M5o4LjykYT+u4Lt >aEkfedFZKjkURO+artvGFnISfVxAMwpW0TfdbxE2Izw8iSjX2w+4aT0ub+Ck3OA4 >X3Bek8ZPhbmsf9lIfBSe38ZPMZGrk7VwTPaMo7JiU5MM58OmCMaodKlwyxfsptKf >khLnbWJbwHrlbW2yXL7nh7Ttnxv1WJ6BHaaJhxX/5EWSU4xAc/FjaQ== >=jsvV >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >Attachment Converted: "F:\GDW\Mail\[NTSEC] SKIPJACK NT4.0 (SP3)" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNKRqWaAMF5Wdhd8FAQEoawf+PlZlxSUBhsO1Pj37arRPt0YDIiCX0e5K UzKIOyIk82Q3s2py5LQmqUv8hrqIY2NxTcn2DaNYm4yS2UOgKDfgfJbswmWdRlYZ UHOt+ROiUn5P7qJqMThKHxE2EnQKhhtyiRJaUYgilGbgKCAAs/YYtP5uu7XOfd3l u9TNmZwz6GCUv3+QrGXBi3g5+KQkzNZ/4cJLn+LYV5dGBzbGAsnSaAjQ+Kai0Xs9 tNTLZjM2wWvUDU7BNUYu/mHyY+ltiURgaqUSQpz9VV3y6SOlyh/Oef2JMtZtYkVc K8EkebhEQNQ4uECxChyGYsmiuDmnt8yCYeX3moCcu+szHebQ/YyPeA== =KIsG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Kwanzaa hijacked by white businesses... [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > SOME RETAILERS SAY WHITE CORPORATIONS ARE HIJACKING KWANZAA > > graphic December 26, 1997 > Web posted at: 9:53 p.m. EST (0253 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As celebrations begin for Kwanzaa, the > 30-year-old African-American holiday, some black business owners say > they worry the celebration, which emphasizes black self-reliance, is > being hijacked by white-owned corporations. > > "When this holiday came into existence, it was almost a > laughingstock," says Magaji Bukar, a gift shop owner. "And now that > (retailers) can make some money, now (they) want to be a part of > this. We're saying, 'No.'" > > "This is more than just money. This is culture," he said. > > Bukar is one of about 1,000 African-American business owners who > have launched a letter-writing campaign, demanding that large > companies -- including Hallmark Cards and Giant Foods -- stop > selling Kwanzaa-related items. They are urging African-Americans to > buy Kwanzaa supplies and goods only from black businesses. > > But not all African-Americans agree. For example, Pamela Rucker of > the National Retail Federation says merchants are simply responding > to the free market and showing respect for the holiday. Magaji Bukar > Magaji Bukar > > "Retailers have a responsibility to serve their consumers, whether > African-American, Hispanic, Asian, whatever," she said. "If > consumers didn't tell us they wanted Kwanzaa-related products, or > other ethnic or culturally-related products, retailers wouldn't > stock them." [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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BAY AREA CYPHERPUNKS MEETING 1/17/98 - Preliminary Schedule announcement
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The January Bay Area Cypherpunks meeting will be on January 17th, rather than the normal second Saturday, to accommodate the RSA conference and W3C conference that will be in town that week. The agenda is not set, but will include - Export law presentation by Lee Tien, Greg Broiles, and maybe Cindy Cohn - Secure DNS export - Latest PGP / McAfee / Network Associates merger and related discussion - More topics appreciated Location will probably be PGP headquarters in San Mateo, but may be another convenient Bay Area location. A more detailed announcement will follow. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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cypherpunks missing from Usenet
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I know most of you don't use Usenet anymore... Nevertheless, I'd appreciate any help. ---guy # From: guy+U2_Czars_suck(a)panix.com # Subject: Re: EFF Director calls for requiring digital signatures for Net access # Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce,comp.org.eff.talk # Followup-To: comp.org.cauce,comp.org.eff.talk # Organization: Information Security at NYC, Third Planet From the Sun T. Max Devlin <mdevlin(a)eltrax.com> wrote: : On 20 Dec 1997 05:28:35 -0500, Cipher <cipher(a)mindspring.com> wrote: : >The CAUCE group is just getting started and *Digital Signatures* are : >mentioned in the same breath with anti-UCE techniques. From knowing : >absolutely who everyone is to knowing absolutely what everyone is saying : >seems a logical progression. I see the *Good users are known users* : >mentality as the leading edge of draconian restrictions on Usenet and : >e-mail that are in the works. : It is not a logical progression. : Nevertheless, civility (which is what we're trying to achieve) : requires a balance between individual "rights" of privacy and : public knowledge of who is saying what. A "balance" between "privacy" and "public knowledge of who is saying what"??? Like the FBI wants a "balance" between the rights of people to use cryptography and law enforcement concerns? You are truly a nutcake. T. Max Devlin <mdevlin(a)eltrax.com> wrote: : This extremist view that to be able to identify who is saying something is : automatically the same as censorship is getting more and more ludicrous. The US Supreme Court disagrees with you regarding anonymous speech. T. Max Devlin <mdevlin(a)eltrax.com> wrote: : Without rational examination of the issues, the ultimate solution will : inevitably be that the Internet is unusable for public discourse. Imminent death of the Internet, film at 11. An MIT study has shown civility is *unnatural* among heavy email users. Even Russ Allbery will through out a "bullshit" and more now and then, or do you want to argue about what "civility" means? ---- What does civility mean to Usenet II Czars? It means deleting off-topic posts (which they've done), because they are "abusive". # * [usenet2] A New Virtual Community # * From: Stephanie da Silva <arielle(a)bonkers.taronga.com> # * Reply-To: usenet2(a)usenet.com # * Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 03:12:04 -0500 (CDT) # # I'm somewhat disillusioned because two of my favorite newsgroups seem # to be plagued by a similar problem -- an increase in off-topic chatter. # # This has gone to the point on one of the groups # where some people have actually adopted an OFF-TOPIC keyword and use it # in subject headers. # # In a very recent discussion where I pointed out that this went against # ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ # the very foundation of Usenet and that off-topic threads were 100% noise, # ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^ # a user that has been posting less than a year and a half (from Netcom) # patiently explained to me how she felt the main appeal of the newsgroup # was its diverse nature and that she found the off-topic threads # "invigorating." # # So I guess my point is I wish there were some mechanism in place to # reinforce that newsgroups are focused discussion groups and not informal # chat rooms or coffee klatches. People are not taking it to email the # way they tended to in the "good old days." # # I was just talking about this with someone in email. She described an # incident that had happened on rec.arts.books. Someone flamed (ironically # enough) Mike Godwin for posting off-topic. She said Godwin's response # ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ # was that rec.arts.books was not a place for talking about books per se, # but a place where 'bookish' people could get together and chat. # # That pretty much sums up the point I was trying to make. What else? What have the U2 Czars controlling CAUCE also done? Not allowed the admin of a one-way remailer who returned the required token for posting to comp.org.cauce to post here; no explanation given despite repeated requests. That's not "civil", Max. ---- T. Max Devlin <mdevlin(a)eltrax.com> wrote: : Authentication is a required capability of any multi-user communications system. Apparently you have never heard of pay-phones, 900 re-dial services, etc. : The question is not whether we can get away without it (in the long run, I fear, : we cannot). The question is how we can implement it in a rational fashion that : isn't too slanted one way or the other between personal and public desires. The question is: how can control-freaks like you be beaten to a bloody pul^W^W^W^W back? ---guy

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